Luck and Butthurt.

[El Majishan]

[center][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=TQq_lVmhMRM[/media][/center]

[center]Came across this video while killing time on the tube.[/center]

[center]While I understand where he is coming from, I can't help but think he's just butt hurt because he lost. YGO is at its heart, a game of luck as most card games are. Card games depend on whats in your hand and what you can accomplish with your resources. Of course managing these resources well is what leads to success and that takes a great level of skill to do well, but the game has always been about who drew the better cards.[/center]

[center]He b****es about losing to power cards...and yes some power cards need to go(JD, BLS, DAD, Reborn ect ect)...but think about it this way...lets say I draw my power cards and every time I use them...you happen to have the answer...I can b**** and complain in the same fashion as he is complaining about losing to power cards right?[/center]

[center]No one likes to get "sacked", but getting sacked is something that is completely based on perspective. Having all the power cards can be seen as sacking in the same fashion as having all the answers to your opponent plays can be seen as sacking, and once again this sacking comes from who drew the better cards and when.[/center]

[center]Anyway discuss the video, give your opinion on my view point, give your own view point ect ect.[/center]

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

He's mad because he lost to JD?

I was able to get rid of all my opponent's JDs through a combination of Solemn, Veiler, and the Shining. He's just not a good player if he b****es about that.

Although, JD does need to go.

From about 4:00 on, sounds like DN.

He also claims about how Maxx C sucks against all Decks except for Wind-Ups, Plants, and Six Sams...uhh, why don't you just side out Maxx C if you're drawing into it so horribly and you KNOW Maxx C is going to do s*** against a Deck that doesn't provide Maxx C's function?

[Tentacruel]

I'd say it's equal parts luck, skill, and how much money you have to spend on cards.

It's a pretty broken game. To actually balance it out, they'd practically have to ban half the cards in existence and start from scratch, which obviously isn't going to happen.

[Sleepy]

Luck is always gonna be there. It is necessary to reduce its impact a lot with the design of cards, but not to completely obliterate it.

Personally, having played since back in the day when Starter Decks Kaiba and Yugi were out, the increase in complexity is good, but the power creep this game has is horrible. Your average vanilla with 1600 ATK from back then, is the equivalent to your average 2500 ATK+ Xyz/Synchro from nowadays since the relative difficulty of Summoning either on it's time is roughly the same. I could claim so much to be broken using the standard of back then.

[-Griffin]

Not many cards in the game have specific mechanics to emphasize skill. A fair few that emphasize luck to some minor extent, though.

The fact someone can build some Exodia Deck which really doesn't care for their opponent's Deck, except maybe a Judgement slowing them down for a turn or two if their opponent is lucky, is a testament to the fact some Decks turn the entire game down to luck and simply removes skill from the game. Few Decks do this to such an extent, but there is a serious amount of luck in the vast majority of Decks. More than there should be, for sure.

The guy in the video is really annoying, though.

Anyway, I'm just waiting for Sirlin to release the card game he's been hyping up that apparently has minimal luck and is the best thing since sliced bread. I've enjoyed his games so far, but I'm gonna have to see this one to believe it.

[Sunshine Jesse]

I don't think I could enjoy a game without luck

I find a game where you can fundamentally win before you actually reach your winning condition to be unfun in most cases. No matter the skill gap, I don't think someone should ever be hopelessly outmatched against an opponent and never have a chance to win. Being sacked is frustrating, and this game happens to go about handling luck wrong, but ideally (read: in a perfect game to me) if you lose due to luck, then you weren't skilled enough to prepare for the unexpected and didn't deserve to win. This is actually why I hate most control and lockdown decks (and Solemn Judgment) and enjoy cards like Morphing Jar; they make it too easy to prevent a comeback and can effectively win before you win.

A purely skill-based or purely balanced game usually leaves little room for innovation and variation, which I find boring.

[-Griffin]

[quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1348511821' post='6031198']
I don't think I could enjoy a game without luck
I find a game where you can fundamentally win before you actually reach your winning condition to be unfun in most cases. No matter the skill gap, I don't think someone should ever be hopelessly outmatched against an opponent and never have a chance to win. Being sacked is frustrating, and this game happens to go about handling luck wrong, but ideally (read: in a perfect game to me) if you lose due to luck, then you weren't skilled enough to prepare for the unexpected and didn't deserve to win. This is actually why I hate most control and lockdown decks (and Solemn Judgment) and enjoy cards like Morphing Jar; they make it too easy to prevent a comeback and can effectively win before you win.
A purely skill-based or purely balanced game usually leaves little room for innovation and variation, which I find boring.
[/quote]

Indeed, but I do feel Yugioh is a bit too far towards luck. Some is fine, but Yugioh is a step too far in the current format.

[Lonk]

In YGO, you get control of the field and are about to win, and your opponent topdecks a single card that causes you to lose. That will always suck hard, no matter how you look at it.

[Sunshine Jesse]

[quote name='-Griffin' timestamp='1348513392' post='6031224']
Indeed, but I do feel Yugioh is a bit too far towards luck. Some is fine, but Yugioh is a step too far in the current format.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. Like I said, Yugioh goes about it wrong. I wouldn't even mind the prospect of "rip JD in losing position and proceed to win" if there were more ways to throw a wrench in doing so that couldn't help the winner just as much as the loser (Hi Solemn.)

I just don't like it when people complain about the very existence of luck or say it needs to be eliminated (or minimized.) This (or any game) would be boring as s*** without it.

[-Griffin]

[quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1348516204' post='6031250']
Yeah I agree. Like I said, Yugioh goes about it wrong. I wouldn't even mind the prospect of "rip JD in losing position and proceed to win" if there were more ways to throw a wrench in doing so that couldn't help the winner just as much as the loser (Hi Solemn.)
I just don't like it when people complain about the very existence of luck or say it needs to be eliminated (or minimized.) This (or any game) would be boring as s*** without it.
[/quote]

Totally agree with the yugioh side of your arguments, but games can be fun without luck, in some cases.

For example, many people enjoy Chess.

You can also have a lack of information that isn't luck-based. For example, double-blind mechanics or making moves without your opponents knowing (usually only possible in computer games). For example, in a pre-set map of Age of Empires 2, there is effectively 0 luck, but if your opponent prevents your scouting, there is still difficult choices to make based upon what you think your opponent is doing behind the fog of war.

[Sunshine Jesse]

[quote name='-Griffin' timestamp='1348516495' post='6031254']
Totally agree with the yugioh side of your arguments, but games can be fun without luck, in some cases.

For example, many people enjoy Chess.

You can also have a lack of information that isn't luck-based. For example, double-blind mechanics or making moves without your opponents knowing (usually only possible in computer games). For example, in a pre-set map of Age of Empires 2, there is effectively 0 luck, but if your opponent prevents your scouting, there is still difficult choices to make based upon what you think your opponent is doing behind the fog of war.
[/quote]

I'm not the hugest fan of Chess but I can see why other people like it

But imo, if you're playing a card game and complaining about luck over the cards themselves, you probably shouldn't be playing a card game.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1348517118' post='6031262']
I'm not the hugest fan of Chess but I can see why other people like it[/quote]
Chess is mostly mind games. Its great if your good at strategy.

[quote name='Tentalus Therapist' timestamp='1348515982' post='6031249']
your opponent topdecks a single card that causes you to lose.[/quote]
>Dark Hole

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1348517860' post='6031269']
>Dark Hole
[/quote]
So topdeck something that counters Dark Hole (White Hole?). If they're smart (or they think they're smart), then they'll counter [i]that[/i] with something else, but if [i]you're [/i]smart you'll counter that, and then you'll have an "I know that you know that I know" mindgame situation. Fun! Alternatively, you can set up a Kansas City Shuffle where your opponent has a hunch you're going to trap them, makes a twitch reaction, and then you punish them with something entirely different...

...or you can just screw the cons and mindgames and just attack every turn you can. After all, chess between two grand masters gets boring after a while. Pulling strategies out of your ass hurts a while and isn't particularly sanitary, but it gets the crowds.

[Legend Zero]

lol he said "good YuGitubers"

lol complaining about LS being OP

lol @ the calender (maybe a poster?) picture in that video

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

[quote name='Tentalus Therapist' timestamp='1348515982' post='6031249']
In YGO, you get control of the field and are about to win, and your opponent topdecks a single card that causes you to lose.
[/quote]

[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120607014657/yugioh/images/thumb/e/e9/MasterHyperion-GLD5-EN-GUR-LE.jpg/300px-MasterHyperion-GLD5-EN-GUR-LE.jpg[/img]

Someone called?

[-Griffin]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1348518759' post='6031292']

So topdeck something that counters Dark Hole (White Hole?). If they're smart (or they think they're smart), then they'll counter [i]that[/i] with something else, but if [i]you're [/i]smart you'll counter that, and then you'll have an "I know that you know that I know" mindgame situation. Fun!
[/quote]


Except this entirely breaks down when you draw 3 cards that are the 1st link on the chain, 2 of the 2nd, 1 of the 4th, and end up with nothing to respond to your opponent's "2nd links", as it were.

The thing is, it's a very random game, so you really can't always out-play your opponent when drawing is 100% luck and Decks vary so wildly that some cards might be entirely irrelevant in some matchups, or not feasible to main-Deck in the first place.

[Legend Zero]

Ok, I actually finished the video now and I have to say....wut?

"If I don't draw well and my opponent does, I lose. It's disheartening."

.......Someone please explain this to me in a way that doesn't sound retarded. It's like he feels entitled to win simply because he knows a lot and has a youtube channel.

"DWorlds and LS are bad and should never be played by good players."

>People who are good can't play their favorite decks in this world.


And for the record, reading every card your opponent has is a mind game that I loved to use in tourney play. It makes them either play mad (and bad) or feel sorry for you (and play bad) more often than not.

But as stated before....all the butthurt.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Simply said, the guy is just...omg...he's just like my little brother.

If he wins, HEY! NO PROBLEM!

If he loses, BAN THE FREAKING POWER CARDS, ALL MY OPPONENT'S HAVE BETTER HANDS THAN ME!

Urgh...While he did base out on a few cards, it still needs luck because that's what the initial start is. Who gets the better hand. While it should have skill involved in the game, luck is needed as well because without luck a game usually has a tendency to become bland, where as if you have pure luck, well it's an all or nothing situation.

Pretty much stopped after he started saying how much he knows about the meta and all card functions currently (3:33). That's an opinion in the youtube video and if he knows said meta/card functions of the game he should've deliberately targeted how cards function instead of "luck".

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1348520428' post='6031309']
lol complaining about LS being OP[/quote]
Lightsworns aren't even overpowered anyway.
They just need a boss that isn't so idiotic... And the game to be a little less Graveyard-oriented.

[Legend Zero]

tl;dr the game he is looking for is called chess?

I do agree with the Grave oriented comment.

[El Majishan]

I just have an issue of these guys on youtube who believe they are above everyone else in the game yet some of what they say is so idiotic. They think they are entitled to win because they are "good".

I have lost to people I am better than...and I have beaten people who are better than me. While "outplaying" and skill is an important part of the game..no matter how good you are if you don't draw anything you can make a significant play with, chances are you're not winning that game.

[Miror B]

I lost cuz I can't sack.
10/10 wouldn't watch again.

[Toffee.]

Despite the fact I actually sat through the video a bit...
>Complains about Wind-Ups
>TC is Wind-Ups.dek

....
The more I think about this, the funnier it gets.

[El Majishan]

He complains about everything so it just sounds like he's really butt hurt.