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Giant Trunade

nolvorite

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nolvorite Newbie

nolvorite

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lol I could have understood if this was at 1 but not banned
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090619004760/yugioh/images/thumb/0/0f/GiantTrunade5DS2-EN-C-1E.png/300px-GiantTrunade5DS2-EN-C-1E.png[/img]
[quote]
Return all Spell and Trap cards on the field to their owner's hands.[/quote]

Again, let's say that this was at 1, this is your top deck, you draw it in your turn, your opponent has 3 set spells/traps at least one which is a Dark Bribe.
How is this any different (or more powerful) than Heavy Storm for example?

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AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Newbie

AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW

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Ohhey probably-DJVD.

Anyway, Heavy is a permanent solution to the backrow, where Trunade fails miserably after your OTK attempt fails. OTK cards like Limiter Removal also fail miserably when your OTK doesn't work usually. Also, you don't get your backrow that you lost (provided you lost backrow) back from Storm. Giant Trunade's ability to reuse things like CotH, Chain, Swords (even though that sucks miserably now), and even lets you use some 1/turn effects twice such as Dragon Ravine, it all makes it more abusing than Storm does. Not to mention that if you do have backrow when you play a backrow-sweeping card, Trunade lets you keep your cards while shutting down their backrow, while Storm prevents you from regaining said backrow.

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Legend Zero Newbie

Legend Zero

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[quote name='nolvorite' timestamp='1356811858' post='6105263']
Again, let's say that this was at 1, this is your top deck, you draw it in your turn, your opponent has 3 set spells/traps at least one which is a Dark Bribe.
How is this any different (or more powerful) than Heavy Storm for example?
[/quote]
1. lolDarkBribe
2. Counter-ability doesn't make things less broken (and even if we go this route Heavy has more commonly used counters)
3. As stated, this can allow dead cards to be reused. (CotH, Fields, FireFist, ect)
4. Heavy can be used for pushes, but since Trunade doesn't rid the opponent of their resources it is much more designated as a OTK device.

Did you play when this was legal?

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nolvorite Newbie

nolvorite

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[quote name='Kevin the Bird' timestamp='1356814126' post='6105295']
With Trunade you aren't sacrificing anything to allow a backrow free push.
[/quote]
so okay, what about all those times that Heavy Storm is used when the person using it has no spell/trap cards (which happens a lot AFAIC *people who play Dino Rabbits*)
wouldn't you say there's no cost to that then... if it was Giant Trunade they'll just set it back on the field the next turn

guize i'm not trolling. If its at 1 the chances of drawing the card and supposedly abusing it is pretty slim. There's several other cards that can return spell/trap cards back to the hand
@A Background Character if Swords of Revealing Light for example is on their side of the field and you use Giant Trunade isnt that reusable and instead of outright destroying the card with Heavy Storm they could just reuse it again... so at the most this card stalls for one turn

If it really promotes OTK's, it seems like a miserable card to use it with IMO

I played it sometimes when it was legal

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AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Newbie

AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW

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[quote name='nolvorite' timestamp='1356815278' post='6105318']
@A Background Character if Swords of Revealing Light for example is on their side of the field and you use Giant Trunade isnt that reusable and instead of outright destroying the card with Heavy Storm they could just reuse it again... so at the most this card stalls for one turn[/quote]

Yeah, and having one turn to get around lolSwords is more OTK-material than just getting rid of it. And I meant using it to reuse [i]your[/i] own Swords, though the other way isn't impossible. Hell, I do it every now and then in Trunade-is-here formats.

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~British Soul~ Veteran

~British Soul~

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Trunade was always a stupid card to begin with, promoting loops and OTKs, it can stay @0 forever for all I care.

[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1356815184' post='6105315']
2. Counter-ability doesn't make things less broken (and even if we go this route Heavy has more commonly used counters)
[/quote]
I agree, being counterable is never a good argument.

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Legend Zero Newbie

Legend Zero

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[quote name='nolvorite' timestamp='1356815278' post='6105318']
so okay, what about all those times that Heavy Storm is used when the person using it has no spell/trap cards (which happens a lot AFAIC *people who play Dino Rabbits*)
wouldn't you say there's no cost to that then... if it was Giant Trunade they'll just set it back on the field the next turn
[/quote]
The player who got Heavy Storm'd overextended, resulting in them getting punished for it. It is never a card's fault for bad play. At most a player will lose 2 Spells/Traps if the opponent has none, otherwise it is the players fault.

[quote name='nolvorite' timestamp='1356815278' post='6105318']
guize i'm not trolling. If its at 1 the chances of drawing the card and supposedly abusing it is pretty slim. There's several other cards that can return spell/trap cards back to the hand
[/quote]
This is just as bad as the counter-ability argument. This is the logic used for BLS coming back.

[quote name='nolvorite' timestamp='1356815278' post='6105318']
@A Background Character if Swords of Revealing Light for example is on their side of the field and you use Giant Trunade isnt that reusable and instead of outright destroying the card with Heavy Storm they could just reuse it again... so at the most this card stalls for one turn
[/quote]
Are you implying that someone is dumb enough to play Trunade when their opponent has Swords of Revealing Light and not win that turn?


Honestly, this is a question that gets asked a lot by not fully competitive players. However, if you think about the points everyone has listed it should be clear. :]

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nolvorite Newbie

nolvorite

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[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1356815975' post='6105338']
The player who got Heavy Storm'd overextended, resulting in them getting punished for it. It is never a card's fault for bad play. At most a player will lose 2 Spells/Traps if the opponent has none, otherwise it is the players fault.

This is just as bad as the counter-ability argument. This is the logic used for BLS coming back.

Are you implying that someone is dumb enough to play Trunade when their opponent has Swords of Revealing Light and not win that turn?

Honestly, this is a question that gets asked a lot by not fully competitive players. However, if you think about the points everyone has listed it should be clear. :]
[/quote]I never said it was the card's fault(lolwat), I was saying in that scenario heavy storm would be more beneficial to the player using the card compared to giant trunade

well ok you're right about this one a card being counterable isn't a good argument in this case. But there really are several cards that can return spell/trap cards back to the hand (Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, Mist Valley Falcon,some Constellar monsters? blah) with some cost that more or less does the same effect Giant Trunade does. Wouldnt you say they could abuse effs (SoRL for example) the same way?

I don't even know what to say about that, except their opponent has crappy defense if they win that turn by just destroying SoRL and 1 other spell/trap card.

Wow ok thanks. I guess i'm pretty dumb for not being convinced lol. I'm just saying if you plan to OTK with Giant Trunade it's not the card to use

btw I don't hate anyone for their opinions lol (apparently im the only one who has this opinion about GT :( ) come on I just joined

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Miror B Newbie

Miror B

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[quote name='nolvorite' timestamp='1356817570' post='6105367']
Wow ok thanks. I guess i'm pretty dumb for not being convinced lol. I'm just saying if you plan to OTK with Giant Trunade it's not the card to use
[/quote]
Why wouldn't it be? Get all your opponent's Spells and Traps to the hand where they aren't worth much of anything then spam and OTK, and you didn't lose any of your Spells and Traps at all so you can just re-set them for next turn if you happen to run into a Battle Fader.

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Sleepy Mentor

Sleepy

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@nolvorite, I think you are underestimating Giant Trunade.

Compared to Heavy Storm, the game has developed a decent amount of anti-destruction effects. Starlight Road, The Huge Revolution is Over, Stardust Dragon, etc. So the chances of you getting to stop Heavy if it happens, are a lot higher to the Chances of stopping Giant Trunade. Pretty much only Counter Trap Cards do the trick, and the only ones I can see being used, are Solemn Judgment (limited), Dark Bribe (which has fallen out of favor on this generation), and Magic Drain (which I don't really see used at all). None of which are commonly seen. In short, it's pretty much not gonna get a response.

The current powercreep of the game makes it very easy to just Summon a bunch of monsters in one turn and win right there, so yeah...
You could say that Trunade is not a problem in a very casual fun level of playing, but a card's position on the list is designated by how much problems it can cause in the competitive level.

Heavy Storm is a better card for both players' game experiences anyways, because it can eliminate threats when you HAVE to get rid of something, and it also punishes you for having cards of your own if you are bad enough to have them when you activate it, or if the situation is too desperate, while Giant Trunade just recycles your own effects: Call of the Haunted, Fiendish Chain, Swords of Revealing Light (for whatever reason), etc.

Lastly, Giant Trunade gives off the mentality of "I have to make this count because my opponent is going to set everything back", meaning people will mostly strive for winning that turn. At the same time, it doesn't force people to think about how much of their Spell/Trap Cards to put on the vulnerable zones that are the field, it rather promotes the "set as much as you have, you never know when it'll be useful" attitude if you switched it with Heavy Storm. Heavy doesn't give that "final turn" worry as often.


I don't think people are trying to be harsh. Don't take it to heart, and welcome to YCM.

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