More generic Synchro Materials

[Sleepy]

This is just a random idea that just occured to me.

 

ITT:

Synchros no longer need the first material to be a Tuner, but they still need to have the same number of Materials as usually stated.

Instead, the requirement for Synchros is that the Level of all materials are NOT the same.

Level 2 Synchros are the exception, as they are otherwise impossible.

Tokens cannot be used.

 

For example:

Level 8 Synchro requires 1+7 or 2+6 or 3+5 or 1+2+5 or 1+3+4

3-Material Synchros, like Mist Wurm (Level 9) would also need all 3 to be different. So it'd be: 2+3+4 or 1+3+5 or 1+2+6

 

Other than that, anything in the materials that's not the word "Tuner" stays as is. For example:

If you needed "Junk Synchron", you still do.

If you needed a WATER Tuner, you now just need a WATER monster.

etc.

 

 

Thoughts?

The idea is (as pointed out by most of you, if not all) very risky.

I'll try to work it out as problems arise with it.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Sounds extremely dangerous. Don't really like the idea, personally. Opens up way too many opportunities for Synchro spam.

[Sleepy]

Sounds extremely dangerous. Don't really like the idea, personally. Opens up way too many opportunities for Synchro spam.

That's about as generic as Xyzs are.

I know it gives more freedom and it might be risky, but I'd like to find those risky points specifically.

Once I do, I can adjust that bit accordingly.

For now, Instant Fusion comes to mind, but that's not too amazing.

Dragunities could get Barcha easier, which might or might not be bad.

 

Hmmm....

[Zazubat]

Synchros are already pretty powerful, just doing this gives them another reason why they're better than Xyzs. It would be neat to try, but I think it would break some already broken Decks.

[Sleepy]

Synchros are already pretty powerful, just doing this gives them another reason why they're better than Xyzs. It would be neat to try, but I think it would break some already broken Decks.

Though, remember that the most easy way to make a Level 8 Synchro IRL is using 2 Level 4s, but the same pair of monsters that can form an Xyz cannot be used for a Synchro under this thread's OP. Other than that... yeah, if's somewhat risky. The main idea is to make them as generic as Xyzs are... it's a work in progress.

[A Hollow Man]

How do you summon Formula Synchron or T.G. Recipro Dragonfly?

 

I'm not sure I want to see the game focus even more single-mindedly on "The point of having two monsters on the field is to ditch them for an Extra Deck monster". With this rule, any pair of monsters you control will let you either Xyz Summon (if they're the same level) or Synchro Summon (if not).

[Blake]

You know that the design of Xyz is much worse than Synchros, right?

 

Xyz are partly bad because they're so generic and partly bad because they're made to totally reimburse you in either actual card advantage or other ways similar (Like Lavalval Chain).

 

Synchros are not-as-generic beaters with effects to make them worth it in addition to their beatstickyness. At least, that's the core design. By making them generic, you make many tuners pointless. I mean, almost all the cards used for Xyz would also be available for Synchroing.

 

You remove the "balancing" factor of the design by removing Tuners, which aren't as easy to put in any deck.

How do you summon Formula Synchron or T.G. Recipro Dragonfly?

 

I'm not sure I want to see the game focus even more single-mindedly on "The point of having two monsters on the field is to ditch them for an Extra Deck monster". With this rule, any pair of monsters you control will let you either Xyz Summon (if they're the same level) or Synchro Summon (if not).

Lv 4 + Lv 4 = Scrap Dragon, Stardust, Blader, etc.

 

You won't always Xyz, either.

[byak]

Hey I can turn goat tokens and fluff tokens into formula

[Sleepy]

How do you summon Formula Synchron or T.G. Recipro Dragonfly?

 

I'm not sure I want to see the game focus even more single-mindedly on "The point of having two monsters on the field is to ditch them for an Extra Deck monster". With this rule, any pair of monsters you control will let you either Xyz Summon (if they're the same level) or Synchro Summon (if not).

 

Level 2 Synchros..... that's a good point.

I'll just make it an exception, since Level 1s are a really undersupported mechanic. It's not ideal. Hopefully something better will occur to me.

 

As for the other point. It just made me think of the potential Inzektors have to move up 2 Levels and screw this up. Though, as generic as Xyzs are, you don't see people always Xyzing into them as soon as possible.

 

 

 

You know that the design of Xyz is much worse than Synchros, right?

 

Xyz are partly bad because they're so generic and partly bad because they're made to totally reimburse you in either actual card advantage or other ways similar (Like Lavalval Chain).

 

Synchros are not-as-generic beaters with effects to make them worth it in addition to their beatstickyness. At least, that's the core design. By making them generic, you make many tuners pointless. I mean, almost all the cards used for Xyz would also be available for Synchroing.

 

You remove the "balancing" factor of the design by removing Tuners, which aren't as easy to put in any deck.

Lv 4 + Lv 4 = Scrap Dragon, Stardust, Blader, etc.

You can't use 2 Level 4s for a Synchro here.

 

As for the other.... true. It's their main balancing factor, and that's the best counterargument of this thread. I need to go to the drawing board again for a bit and come up with something, if that something doesn't make it too needlessly complicated.

 

 

 

Hey I can turn goat tokens and fluff tokens into formula

 

I wouldn't care about Scapegoats, but Dandy is a problem....

EDIT:

What about? "at least 1 monster must be a non-Token?

[NoshpalStefan]

This idea prompts quite a few of overpowered problems. I mean, synchro monsters are basically broken in some of their effects, do we really need to remove another obstacle (no tuners required)?

 

XYZ monsters may be generic, but are in no case as OPed as Brionac or Goyo was. Sure, Utopia can stop your attacks and shock master can prepare for an OTK, but compared to Brio's power, XYZs are partially a joke. That's why they're allowed to be more generic, because they went overboard with synchro monsters.

 

So, in a nutshell, no, I think this is a somewhat bad idea.

[-Doodle]

Level 2 Synchros..... that's a good point.

I'll just make it an exception, since Level 1s are a really undersupported mechanic. It's not ideal. Hopefully something better will occur to me.

 

As for the other point. It just made me think of the potential Inzektors have to move up 2 Levels and screw this up. Though, as generic as Xyzs are, you don't see people always Xyzing into them as soon as possible.

 

 

 

You can't use 2 Level 4s for a Synchro here.

 

As for the other.... true. It's their main balancing factor, and that's the best counterargument of this thread. I need to go to the drawing board again for a bit and come up with something, if that something doesn't make it too needlessly complicated.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't care about Scapegoats, but Dandy is a problem....

EDIT:

What about? "at least 1 monster must be a non-Token?

Why not just exclude the use of tokens alltogether like with the Xyz?

The 'mechanic' thechnically sounds balanced, but it's not, because like others already said- Synchros have much more destructive effects than what the xyz have. if this was the mechanic at first (before synchros became a thing) than they would probably have dome more balanced effects.

[Zazubat]

True, but it will make Tokens with condtions sound out of place, and they would need an Errata.

[Sleepy]

Why not just exclude the use of tokens alltogether like with the Xyz?

The 'mechanic' thechnically sounds balanced, but it's not, because like others already said- Synchros have much more destructive effects than what the xyz have. if this was the mechanic at first (before synchros became a thing) than they would probably have dome more balanced effects.

Yeah I was thinking the same after writing this idea down....

The OP could work if a plethora of over-the-top Synchros didn't already exist.

 

That's a shame, because generic doesn't necessarily mean bad depending of what the card is.

 

About Tokens, there aren't that many Tokens out there. Dandy Level 1, Mecha Phantom Beast Level 3, Gorz Level 5. Scapegoats hardly matter. Would that be necessary? I guess if I did, it'd be for consistency as in either you can or not use them rather than the current "some can be"... In that case it'd be better to say no to Tokens although it does sound a bit overkill. Hmmm.. right. To hell with Tokens, they can just be used for good old Tribute Summons or something.... yeah.

[Blake]

This idea prompts quite a few of overpowered problems. I mean, synchro monsters are basically broken in some of their effects, do we really need to remove another obstacle (no tuners required)?

XYZ monsters may be generic, but are in no case as OPed as Brionac or Goyo was. Sure, Utopia can stop your attacks and shock master can prepare for an OTK, but compared to Brio's power, XYZs are partially a joke. That's why they're allowed to be more generic, because they went overboard with synchro monsters.

So, in a nutshell, no, I think this is a somewhat bad idea.

You just called Shock Master a joke. Are you an utter moron, that card is just as banworthy as Brionac.

It's not just OTK prep, it shuts the opp out completely of a certain card type.

[Zazubat]

You just called Shock Master a joke. Are you an utter moron, that card is just as banworthy as Brionac.

It's not just OTK prep, it shuts the opp out completely of a certain card type.

I am gonna disagre with you on the fact that it's "just as banworthy as Brionac", but I will say that it's one of the best generics out there, if not the best. I don't think it deserves a ban, after all, Xyz Monsters always have 2 things againts them. 1, they require you to have Xyz Materials, SS'ing Brionac from the Grave with CotH is a better choice, 2, they can't be used for addtional Synchroing, which means that if it's face-up, it has one purpose, and that is to use it's effect/attack. If you got Chained, you wouldn't even be able to just Synchro with it later. Also, rememeber that it also limits you, so unless you know you can go for game, it might screw you up.

[ihop]

The synchro mechanic is totally balanced and fine as it is, the trouble is that a lot of the best Synchros are banned and pretty much all good Tuners are on the list somewhere. OP is just making a new version of Xyz. You can tell Xyz is a more powerful mechanic because Leviathan is actually played even though it's just a 2500 beater, but getting 2 level 3s out is so easy that a 2500 beater seems a good payoff, whereas with Synchros Gaia Knight only started seeing use when Goyo was banned and Scrap Archfiend was almost never used because Black Rose is so much better.

[Sleepy]

I am gonna disagre with you on the fact that it's "just as banworthy as Brionac", but I will say that it's one of the best generics out there, if not the best. I don't think it deserves a ban, after all, Xyz Monsters always have 2 things againts them. 1, they require you to have Xyz Materials, SS'ing Brionac from the Grave with CotH is a better choice, 2, they can't be used for addtional Synchroing, which means that if it's face-up, it has one purpose, and that is to use it's effect/attack. If you got Chained, you wouldn't even be able to just Synchro with it later. Also, rememeber that it also limits you, so unless you know you can go for game, it might screw you up.

I'll have to partially go off-topic here and say I agree with Black here. Shock Master has won me duels almost single-handedly, as well as it has made me lose duels just as easily. Shutting down as much as a single mechanic out of those 3 is really devastating, and it's not too hard to guess what you'll call. If your opponent has no backrow you won't call Traps, if your opponent has no field you'll most likely call monsters, if you just want to secure your cards are not dark holed or something like that, and are unconserned about the other 2 because you are confident in your counter measures, you call Spells.

Brionac is broken too, but one is ubber control, and the other just encourages "clean field and swarm for game" or "loop".

 

I myself have done the effect of Shock Master twice in the same turn, and it's not too hard. I just play Zenmaister to flip it down and then Flip Summon and use it again when it already survived a turn. Then since I play Heraldic Beasts, I proceed to use Two-Headed Eagle's effect to refill it's materials with 2 Leos, but that's just my casual-self

 

 

 

The synchro mechanic is totally balanced and fine as it is, the trouble is that a lot of the best Synchros are banned and pretty much all good Tuners are on the list somewhere. OP is just making a new version of Xyz. You can tell Xyz is a more powerful mechanic because Leviathan is actually played even though it's just a 2500 beater, but getting 2 level 3s out is so easy that a 2500 beater seems a good payoff, whereas with Synchros Gaia Knight only started seeing use when Goyo was banned and Scrap Archfiend was almost never used because Black Rose is so much better.

There are other factors about Number 17's use. It's a simple beater that's easy to pull out, but Scrap Archfiend had the issue that Black Rose on itself is decently high in ATK so the gap was too little to bother. Plus the blow up effect AND the potential situational other effect.

While Number 17's cards that compete with it are:

Leviair with 1800 ATK. A very nice effect but if you want a beater, it's far from one.

Zenmaines with 1500 ATK. A good wall that might destroy something once in a while. Even weaker that Leviair.

Acid Golem with 3000 ATK. This one would take the cake if it didn't have such a drawback. Some like it as a casual beater, I personally don't. It has other uses, too.

 

Plus, Goyo and Brionac were broken, Gaia Knight WAS used commonly.

It's not that these would actually make him too much easier to bring out, just make it available to more decks.

 

Also, another reason Leviathan is commonly played, is that Konami decided to stir the game in the direction of Xyzs. New and slightly more powercreeped cards conforming the Main Deck make them easier to bring out, especially looking at how most archtypes of this era don't even have Tuners.

 

The first thought is that rather than gaining much strength and pluses from Synchros, it's just a different use of resourses. Of course, this last bit is the point that has a problem I'm trying to fix since Synchros do have more ATK generally, and that's dangerous.

[Zazubat]

I'll have to partially go off-topic here and say I agree with Black here. Shock Master has won me duels almost single-handedly, as well as it has made me lose duels just as easily. Shutting down as much as a single mechanic out of those 3 is really devastating, and it's not too hard to guess what you'll call. If your opponent has no backrow you won't call Traps, if your opponent has no field you'll most likely call monsters, if you just want to secure your cards are not dark holed or something like that, and are unconserned about the other 2 because you are confident in your counter measures, you call Spells.

Brionac is broken too, but one is ubber control, and the other just encourages "clean field and swarm for game" or "loop".

 

I myself have done the effect of Shock Master twice in the same turn, and it's not too hard. I just play Zenmaister to flip it down and then Flip Summon and use it again when it already survived a turn. Then since I play Heraldic Beasts, I proceed to use Two-Headed Eagle's effect to refill it's materials with 2 Leos, but that's just my casual-self

It's your opinion, and you have the right to disagree. I do personally still think that Shock Master at least has a balance compared to Brio which can easily be used to bounce back a lot of useful reusable cards. Though, it's not the topic at hand (even if it is about a Synchro monster), so let's leave it at that.

[Sleepy]

It's your opinion, and you have the right to disagree. I do personally still think that Shock Master at least has a balance compared to Brio which can easily be used to bounce back a lot of useful reusable cards. Though, it's not the topic at hand (even if it is about a Synchro monster), so let's leave it at that.

Shock Master is not as reusable as Brionac, but it really is all you'll need to win, so it makes little difference, and Shock Master has Xyz Reborn going for it anyways. I'd like to see a Trap that revived Brionac and gave you an extra card in the hand for him to use one of these days.

 

Well, I'm not really taking into account the currently banned Synchros (Trishula, Brionac, Goyo, Darkstrike) as part of the game's cardpool. They are banned in their own right. Other than that, it is relevant to point out any abusable Synchro in particular. Dark End Dragon comes to mind as a quick +1, especially in Inzektors.