Naturia Beast

[·Toot]

 

He's a beast... nuff said

[Sora1499]

This thing is super broken, and it has multiple decks that can summon it consistently, those being sabers (inb4 OP), six sams, beast synchro, and naturias themselves.

 

 In those decks, or at least the first two, it gives you a very sticky field and blocks potential power cards for virtually no cost.  In fact, deck thinning is pretty much considered a bonus at this point.

 

 Unlike Barkion, you can't throw spells at it until it runs out of fuel, once it's there, all spells are GONE.  Fortunately, unlike Barkion, it's ATK is a bit "eh".  2200 isn't bad, just not particularly good either,

 

However, it is amazing background support to tack on after you do your silly OTK-esque push.

 

Could it be banned?  Probably.

[Azuh]

Lockdowns in particular in the game of Yu-Gi-Oh cause its a game of limited resources. Unfortunately Beast promotes the use of a never ending Lockdown due to it not being once per turn, and even sending from the Deck to the Graveyard which is always a plus in the game of today

It is really unfair definitely

[Wildflame]

I love the fact that this is GG against alt. win conditions.

[Zauls]

It is completely unfair and should never have been made. Locks down entire decks just from being on the field. Ban please.

[Superdoopertrooper]

If it had to banish cards from the grave like Barkion did, it would be a legitimate 'cost', because at least you'd be able to wear it down if you really had to. It's fine where it is, but could have been made slightly more fair by taking a leaf out of Barkion's book.

[Sleepy]

Regardless of how useful they are, cards that kill an entire mechanic have always been a bad thing. If a deck(s) need that specific counter(s), then the problem is on how those are designed, and should be hit/better designed accordingly instead of having a "kill all Special Summons" "negate all Spells/Traps" "negate all field/Graveyard effects", "destroy all  [insert monster Type here]".

 

Few of them have relatively better designs like Fossil Dyna, but many are just meant to ruin a player's entire deck, like Macro Cosmos for Graveyard-centric decks that are unlucky enough to not draw into their MSTs. That, or just serve lockdowns like this card, Barkyon, Imperial Order, Shock Master, etc.

[Toffee.]

To be fair, guys, Beast is only the way he is because they wanted something to complement Barkion, which eventually lead into Exterio.
But in all seriousness, though, it's free Spell negation, which results in it being a pain to run over :/

[ihop]

There shouldn't be cards in the game that can lock down such a big part of someone's deck and are also really hard to get over. Definite ban.

[newhat]

If it didn't conflict with Macro Cosmos, Karakuri would be able to lock down anything.

[Suibon]

Low stats for an Extra Deck monster or even just a Level 5 Synchro, with two EARTH monsters as material. I'm not saying that the card can't be a problem -- I'm saying that the game could be molded so that the card's weaknesses (at least to these eyes) become more prominent.

 

What I'm trying to get at is that before you deem this card broken because of something very unpalatable -- and make no mistake, I find this very distasteful -- you must examine everything: how it is brought out, the stats and effects of the materials in question, even the playability of the decks where this card is mained in relation to the metagame, its purpose in the decks it's run in, anything and everything about the card.

[ihop]

Low stats for an Extra Deck monster or even just a Level 5 Synchro, with two EARTH monsters as material. I'm not saying that the card can't be a problem -- I'm saying that the game could be molded so that the card's weaknesses (at least to these eyes) become more prominent.

 

2200 ATK is the same as Catastor which isn't bad considering it negates spells too. EARTH argument is silly because that's like saying Gateway forces you to run Samurais. Just because it's not splashable doesn't mean it's good card design.

[Suibon]

2200 ATK is the same as Catastor which isn't bad considering it negates spells too. 

 

It doesn't have Catastor's effect, which makes maintaining it more difficult though not impossible nor even that real hard.

 

 

 

EARTH argument is silly because that's like saying Gateway forces you to run Samurais. Just because it's not splashable doesn't mean it's good card design.

 

It may or may not be silly once we check up on the material. What I'm saying is that you cannot just label a particular card distateful just because of whatever effects it has.

[ihop]

It doesn't have Catastor's effect, which makes maintaining it more difficult though not impossible nor even that real hard.

 

What can get over this that can't get over Hyper Librarian/Magical Android?

 

It may or may not be silly once we check up on the material. What I'm saying is that you cannot just label a particular card distateful just because of whatever effects it has.

 

Yes you can.

[Suibon]

What can get over this that can't get over Hyper Librarian/Magical Android?

Leviathan Dragon and Acid Golem of Destruction. Utopia and Gem-Knight Pearl.

Exceeds also exist, bruh.

 

 

 

Yes you can.

And there's the problem -- allow distate for admittedly distateful effects to seep in, and it will affect your judgment for the worse.

 

 

 

[ihop]

Leviathan Dragon and Acid Golem of Destruction. Utopia and Gem-Knight Pearl.

Exceeds also exist, bruh.

 

That didn't answer my question at all.

 

And anyway 2 EARTHs isn't impossible to get out.

[Suibon]

That didn't answer my question at all.

 

And anyway 2 EARTHs isn't impossible to get out.

 

I'm not saying materials for Beast are impossible to get out.

 

And I answered your question regarding things that can run over Beast that aren't Hyper Librarian or Magical Android -- unless you meant something else.

[ihop]

I'm not saying materials for Beast are impossible to get out.

 

And I answered your question regarding things that can run over Beast that aren't Hyper Librarian or Magical Android -- unless you meant something else.

 

I asked what can get over this that doesn't get over Librarian or Android...

[Suibon]

I asked what can get over this that doesn't get over Librarian or Android...

 

I don't see what not getting over two 2400 ATK monsters has to do with anything.

[ihop]

I don't see what not getting over two 2400 ATK monsters has to do with anything.

 

You said it has low stats for a level 5 Synchro, yet the highest ATK on one is 2400, so I'm asking how big the advantage is of having 2400 ATK rather than 2200.

[Agro]

Low stats for an Extra Deck monster or even just a Level 5 Synchro

It's over 2100, that's all it needs to be to be too powerful for its own good.

 

And there's the problem -- allow distate for admittedly distateful effects to seep in, and it will affect your judgment for the worse.

Of course it will affect your judgment. It HAS to affect your judgment because you're judging a card based on it's cheap effect. That's not a bad thing in the slightest.

[Aerion Brightflame]

What I'm trying to get at is that before you deem this card broken because of something very unpalatable -- and make no mistake, I find this very distasteful -- you must examine everything: how it is brought out, the stats and effects of the materials in question, even the playability of the decks where this card is mained in relation to the metagame, its purpose in the decks it's run in, anything and everything about the card.

 

Two things, one please left align your text.

 

Two. Whilst it's true we we should look at the wider context when looking at cards, the thing with beast is: It locks down an entire mechanic of the game essentially costless. In an ideal game state, which we on this site aim for, cards like that shouldn't exist. Generally, decks that can make this will make it easily. Now, you could argue that by my logic Spell Canceller is broken. However, a 2200 extra deck monster is more stable than a 1800 point main deck tribute monster.

 

Also, the game state can't fully decide if a card is broken or not anymore, because this meta is so crap that decks which people admit are broken design such as Mermails can be seen as non broken. Which is just a wrong way of looking at things in my taste.

 

OT: Because it mills as a 'cost' it shouldn't exist, ironically as Trooper points out, if it had Barkions banishing effect instead it wold be more acceptable. Not much, but enough IMO.

[newhat]

...please left align your text.

 but then how will we know who's special

 

Making a Deck inflect entirely around a certain action (sacrificing WATER monsters in Mermails, looping Spells in Spellbooks, oppressing with Spell Speed 2 Spells and Traps in Dino Rabbit) gives that Deck weaknesses. A card that can more or less stop that set of mechanics (Macro Cosmos, Anti-Spell Fragrance) can punish overspecialization and force variation. Forcing variation is good, no?

 

No. Come to think of it, Macro Cosmos prevents a lot more than it encourages.

[Sleepy]

Two things, one please left align your text.

 

Two. Whilst it's true we we should look at the wider context when looking at cards, the thing with beast is: It locks down an entire mechanic of the game essentially costless. In an ideal game state, which we on this site aim for, cards like that shouldn't exist. Generally, decks that can make this will make it easily. Now, you could argue that by my logic Spell Canceller is broken. However, a 2200 extra deck monster is more stable than a 1800 point main deck tribute monster.

 

Also, the game state can't fully decide if a card is broken or not anymore, because this meta is so crap that decks which people admit are broken design such as Mermails can be seen as non broken. Which is just a wrong way of looking at things in my taste.

 

OT: Because it mills as a 'cost' it shouldn't exist, ironically as Trooper points out, if it had Barkions banishing effect instead it wold be more acceptable. Not much, but enough IMO.

There is also that Spell Canceller negates your stuff too.

[Suibon]

Two things, one please left align your text.

 

I have very bad eyesight, so that I must center all my posts to see and correct what I'm typing, and in some days it ain't enough, so I have to resort to other people typing in my name.

 

I merely ask for your patience and understanding.

 

 

Two. Whilst it's true we we should look at the wider context when looking at cards, the thing with beast is: It locks down an entire mechanic of the game essentially costless.

 

Considering that something is problematic merely because of a reprehensible effect and for no other reason whatsoever, mitigating or not, makes for deficient or even outright wrong-headed evaluations. That is what I'm trying to avoid here by referring to the wider context -- summoning costs, modes of activating effects, stats, et cetera.