Armz & Agro Format

[Superdoopertrooper]

WOW. Okay, everything makes sense now.

 

Actually, I can honestly say that the average level of intelligence on Pojo comes across as being slightly higher than this place. And that's damn well saying something.

[Jord200]

Actually, I can honestly say that the average level of intelligence on Pojo comes across as being higher than this place. 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

[Agro]

Changes:

Infernity Archfiend is now Banned

Divine Wind of Mist Valley is now Banned

Harpie's Hunting Ground is now @2.

 

Keeping a lid on Hunting Ground just because it's a Spell and not a monster.

[TheKaitoKid]

The list actually looks good. My question is through testing, what is the meta in this format like?

[Agro]

The list actually looks good. My question is through testing, what is the meta in this format like?

We're trying to figure that out still. I'll probably set up a tournament soon.

[Toffee.]

We could just say the format is 'theory-oh', buuuuuuut that would be quite a stretch. I'm exaggerating this, yea.

[TheKaitoKid]

I'm putting my money on Chaos Stun & Frog Monarchs both look really good on paper. Because of how much slower the format is, taking control of the board is SO easy--especially with Caius essentially acting as your second and/or third MST. Again, this is on paper. I'll test with whoever wants to tomorrow.

[Suibon]

Divine Wind of Mist Valley is now Banned

Harpie's Hunting Ground is now @2.

 

Explain.

[Agro]

Explain.

If you read the rest of the posts in this thread you'd know a few things.

1. Divine Wind has caused a problem with loops.

2. We're cutting down on the generic mass S/T destruction. Hunting Grounds is like an infinite MST for Harpies that's harder to kill because of less S/T destruction in general. So we hit it. We had it limited originally, but we're going to leave it at 2 for the small consistency hit. It remains to be seen if it will cause issues, so it could move either way on the list until we figure it out.

[Suibon]

1. Divine Wind has caused a problem with loops.

 

How consistent are the loops in question?

[Toffee.]

Said loops are mostly out of the fact cards like Harpie Channeler exist, and basically turn it into a long, 2-card FTK.

[Suibon]

Actually, I can honestly say that the average level of intelligence on Pojo comes across as being slightly higher than this place. And that's damn well saying something.

 

Maybe it's the bias that comes with not being told off to think 'realistically', to think as Konami thinks, but -- speaking of the B/R forum alone -- I don't believe you.

[Dementuo]

Why ban both Aquamirror and Mind Augus? With Mirror banned, all the Gishki loops become impossible since the enabler is gone, meaning Mind Augus doesn't do anything except Graveyard disruption (like it was meant to).

[TheKaitoKid]

If anyone wants to test this format, I'm DN from now until 2 just send me a PM on here.

 

OT: Now that I look again, Mind Augus is an unnecessary hit. On top of that I don't get why Rekindling is still @1 if it costlessly let's you plus in a tremendous way. And my last argument here is that Kreyk & Sombres should be @1. That way their decks are still playable without offering too much advantage. As is, Constellars are too slow, especially after you've already hit their boss. 

[Blake]

[quote name="TheKaitoKid" post="6187674" timestamp="1366901976"]If anyone wants to test this format, I'm DN from now until 2 just send me a PM on here.   OT: Now that I look again, Mind Augus is an unnecessary hit. On top of that I don't get why Rekindling is still @1 if it costlessly let's you plus in a tremendous way. And my last argument here is that Kreyk & Sombres should be @1. That way their decks are still playable without offering too much advantage. As is, Constellars are too slow, especially after you've already hit their boss. [/quote] ... How dos Ptolemys effect their speed? At all? And no, if yure making ideal-ish, they shouldn't be @1. They d far too much for one card, both if them.

[TheKaitoKid]

... How dos Ptolemys effect their speed? At all? And no, if yure making ideal-ish, they shouldn't be @1. They d far too much for one card, both if them.

...You're reading it wrong? Entirely? It's not that M7 has something to do with their speed, it's that with M7 gone that it means that their most lethal monster is Pleidas. With the reduction in power (and I don't mean ATK or DEF), a reduction in too much speed seems excess.

[Blake]

Do you even know how to play Constellars? Pleiades is their most lethal boss monster. Ptolemys is just a cherry on top. It's honestly not even part of the win condition in any way, shape, or form, and you only make it when a Pleiades, Praesepe, or Omega runs out of materials, with only one of those happening even a remotely respectable amount of the time.

 

I mean, yes, a Ptolemys hit hurts, but you're acting like it cripples Constellars. It doesn't, at all, just makes it so that they can't herp derp evolve used up Xyz Monster. Hell, the hit of Ptolemys here isn't even AIMED at Constellars, but at the nature of Ptolemys in the first place.

[Agro]

And my last argument here is that Kreyk & Sombres should be @1. That way their decks are still playable without offering too much advantage.

Yeah, no.

 

As is, Constellars are too slow

Have you actually tested that?

 

especially after you've already hit their boss. 

I don't recall hitting Pleiades...

 

EDIT: More changes:

 

Forbidden:

Rekindling

 

Unlimited:

Evigishki Mind Augus

 

We're gonna keep Gustkraken where it is because ritual cards exist and fuck Gustkraken.

[Toffee.]

We're gonna keep Gustkraken where it is because ritual cards exist and fuck Gustkraken.

Also, given the nature of Gishkis, we are slightly paranoid.

[~Shin~]

First off, Gishki fan here so you might just ignore me.

 

Without Gishki Aquamirror how would a pure Gishki deck play out !?

I think it sould be at 1, a pure build can search it (and search its searcher too) so that makes a small difference, but in a build that only abuse a Gishki monster you need to draw Gishki Aquamirror... unless they would not mind playing Gishki Shadow, then you can simple put Gishki Shadow to 1 as well. I hope this makes sense.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

First off, Gishki fan here so you might just ignore me.

 

Without Gishki Aquamirror how would a pure Gishki deck play out !?

I think it sould be at 1, a pure build can search it (and search its searcher too) so that makes a small difference, but in a build that only abuse a Gishki monster you need to draw Gishki Aquamirror... unless they would not mind playing Gishki Shadow, then you can simple put Gishki Shadow to 1 as well. I hope this makes sense.

 

aquamirror is such an unbalanced card that makes the game so incredibly awful that it only belongs at zero. if gishki as a deck die because of that, then oh well. it cant be at 1. its abuse potential is so incredibly high at ANY number that it cant be in the game, if were talking ideal formats (which we are).

[Agro]

First off, Gishki fan here so you might just ignore me.

If you say so.

[b0b3rt]

Most of the list looks good, but I've got problems with a lot of the semi-limits.

 

 

Gale

Dragonfly

Mole

Book

Scapegoat

- Seems that these can all safely go to 3.  This format is slower, to be sure, but it's not that much slower.  Without Whirlwind, Gale is less of a problem and is usually a -1 outside of Shura.  Dragonfly without Hornet just becomes a good XYZ toolbox (albeit one that gives you free rank 4/5s).  With Gaia Charger banned Volcasaurus is less of a problem, though I think Volca also needs to be hit.  Book should just straight up be at 3, it's not anywhere near as good at Lance at dodging backrow, and it only serves to provide more flexibility without adding generating huge advantage.  Same with scapegoat.

 

Grapha

Hyperion

Decree

 

Grapha should be limited at the very least.  The only thing semi-ing it does is reduce the consistency of DWs without making them any less degenerate.  Leaving it at 1 gives the opponent the opportunity to Bottomless/DPrison/etc it away, while having it at 2 just means that you can search another one and continue beating face.  Ideally I'd see it banned, as a boss that revives itself from the grave for free.  Similar reasoning for Hyperion, excluding the recursion, but probably just limit it.  It's a lot harder to search out and can't bring itself back.

 

Decree should be banned.  It's a card that basically shuts down an entire game mechanic for free, and I've never agreed with that sort of design.  Oppression and Imperial order are both rightly banned, and in this format, traps are even stronger given the lack of easy S/T destruction.

 

Not sure how I feel about Macro/DFissure.  Will have to think on it.

[Agro]

 
Most of the list looks good, but I've got problems with a lot of the semi-limits.
 
 
Gale
Dragonfly
Mole
Book
Scapegoat
- Seems that these can all safely go to 3.  This format is slower, to be sure, but it's not that much slower.  Without Whirlwind, Gale is less of a problem and is usually a -1 outside of Shura.  Dragonfly without Hornet just becomes a good XYZ toolbox (albeit one that gives you free rank 4/5s).  With Gaia Charger banned Volcasaurus is less of a problem, though I think Volca also needs to be hit.  Book should just straight up be at 3, it's not anywhere near as good at Lance at dodging backrow, and it only serves to provide more flexibility without adding generating huge advantage.  Same with scapegoat.

Gale, Dragonfly, and Mole are @2 for testing, I wouldn't put them to 3 just yet. Book and Scapegoat won't be moving any time soon, if ever. We're working with a lot of quality control moves here and I like Book and Scapegoat @2 so that you don't always just waste them. And yeah, they're not Lance, that's why Lance is @1 and they're not.

 

Grapha should be limited at the very least.  The only thing semi-ing it does is reduce the consistency of DWs without making them any less degenerate.  

Okay, that's all we were trying to do, though. Lower their consistency.

 

Similar reasoning for Hyperion, excluding the recursion, but probably just limit it.  It's a lot harder to search out and can't bring itself back.

More reason to keep it @2 to lower consistency. If it's still to much, we can move it later.

 

Decree should be banned.  It's a card that basically shuts down an entire game mechanic for free, and I've never agreed with that sort of design.  Oppression and Imperial order are both rightly banned, and in this format, traps are even stronger given the lack of easy S/T destruction.

 
Not sure how I feel about Macro/DFissure.  Will have to think on it.

We put Macro, Decree, and Drain @2 for the exact same reasons.. We probably won't ban any of them ever, but some of them may end up @1 if they become problems.

[Agro]

Bump!

 

Another idea we've been throwing around is putting some of the most commonly used spell and trap cards to 1 or 2, to restrict their uses and make sure players conserve their resources and dont' throw them all over the board because they know they'll have more. Cards we've looked at for this include:

 

Compulsory Evacuation Device

Dimensional Prison

Fiendish Chain

Effect Veiler

Breakthrough Skill (we basically just looked at all the effect negation cards)

Forbidden Lance (Put to 1)

Bottomless Trap Hole (Put to 1)

etc.

 

We didn't touch a few of them because if they were at 1, we didn't think they were powerful enough or did something so unique that people would conserve them, and if they were at 2, we didn't think it would matter because people would only run 2 otherwise.

 

Thoughts on cards that would fit the bill of things were trying to make people conserve or on any of those cards that we should move around? Please give us your opinion!