Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Alright folks, Armz and I have been working on this list since the day this section was made. Today we're going to unveil it. A few things to know before we begin: The Banlist for now is still in testing mode and will be edited if we feel changes need to be made. We will be putting the official banlist for Armz & Agro Format (hitherto known as AA Format) into effect on June 1st. The Banlist will be updated June 1st and December 1st. Emergency hits will be implemented if deemed necessary ONLY because we feel we made a mistake in the previous list. We WILL be putting hits on cards as they are released, though not immediately unless we feel that it is necessary... we're still working out how that's going to work, so we'll get back to you on that. You can argue any of the hits on this list up until June 1st and can make suggestions to later banlists as they get close to the list date (within a month of release, please). If you have "trooper" or "Suibon" in your name, you are exempt from this rule and cannot make suggestions. There will be one rule change in place for this format: "If a card attempts to activate its effect, it cannot attempt to activate its effect again in the same chain." This rule is being put in place for a few reasons. 1) To make Light and Darkness Dragon not be an anomaly. 2) To put a restriction on cards that can do this and make them more fair to counter, such as Herald of Perfection or Evilswarm Thunderbird. We will only be posting the changes for now. We will post a full banlist on June 1st. [spoiler='Banlist'] [spoiler='Forbidden'] Left Leg of the Forbidden One Archlord Kristya Atlantean Dragoons Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Chicken Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End Constellar Sombres Cyber Jar Cyber-Stein Dark Armed Dragon Dark Magician of Chaos Destiny HERO - Disk Commander Elemental HERO Stratos Evilswarm Kerykeion Fiber Jar Fishborg Blaster Glow-Up Bulb Gorz the Emissary of Darkness Honest Inzektor Hornet Judgment Dragon Magical Scientist Makyura The Destructor Mind Master Morphing Jar Moulinglacia the Elemental Lord Nurse Reficule, the Fallen One Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon Rescue Cat Sangan Sinister Serpent Substitoad Tribe-Infecting Virus Victory Dragon Witch of the Black Forest Yata-Garasu Evigishki Mind Augus Blaze Fenix, the Burning Bombardment Bird Gladiator Beast Gyzarus Thousand-Eyes Restrict Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier Dark Strike Fighter Goyo Guardian Shooting Quasar Dragon T.G. Hyper Librarian Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier Vylon Sigma Constellar Ptolemys M7 Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger Hieratic Dragon King of Atum Number 11: Big Eye Number 16: Shock Master Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity Black Whirlwind Brain Control Butterfly Dagger - Elma Card Destruction Card of Safe Return Change of Heart Cold Wave Confiscation Delinquent Duo Dimension Fusion Final Countdown Future Fusion Gateway of the Six Giant Trunade Gishki Aquamirror Graceful Charity Harpie's Feather Duster Infernity Launcher Last Will Limiter Removal Mass Driver Metamorphosis Mirage of Nightmare Monster Reborn Night Beam Painful Choice Pot of Avarice Pot of Greed Premature Burial Raigeki Royal Tribute Snatch Steal Spellbook Judgment Day Temple of the Kings The Forceful Sentry Vylon Element Bad Reaction to Simochi Chain Material Crush Card Virus Exchange of the Spirit Imperial Order Last Turn Return from the Different Dimension Ring of Destruction Royal Oppression Self-Destruct Button Time Seal Trap Dustshoot Ultimate Offering [/spoiler] [spoiler='Limited'] Left Leg of the Forbidden One Right Arm of the Forbidden One Right Leg of the Forbidden One Blaster, Elemental Dragon of Calderas Chaos Sorcerer Exodia the Forbidden One Geargiarmor Grandsoil the Elemental Lord Infernity Mirage Lonefire Blossom Madolche Hootcake Magician of Faith Mermail Abysslinde Mermail Abyssteus Mezuki Necroface Night Assailant Plaguespreader Zombie Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags Rescue Rabbit Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones Tidal, Elemental Dragon of Cascades Tour Guide from the Underworld Watthopper Wind-Up Magician Evigishki Gustkraken Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei" Karakuri Steel Shogun mdl 00X "Bureido" Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En Evilswarm Ophion Evolzar Dolkka Evolzar Laggia Gear Gigant X Madolche Queen Tiaramisu Allure of Darkness Burial from a Different Dimension Chain Strike Dark Hole Fire Formation - Tenki Forbidden Lance Harpie's Hunting Grounds Heavy Storm Madolche Chateau Mind Control Monster Gate Mystical Space Typhoon One Day of Peace Reinforcement of the Army Rekindling Spellbook of Secrets Swords of Revealing Light Wave Motion Cannon Wind-Up Factory Bottomless Trap Hole Call of the Haunted Ceasefire Just Desserts Magical Explosion Mirror Force Secret Barrel Solemn Judgment Solemn Warning Torrential Tribute The Transmigration Prophecy Wall of Revealing Light [/spoiler] [spoiler='Semi-Limited'] Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind Card Trooper Debris Dragon Destiny HERO - Malicious Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World High Priestess of Prophecy Inzektor Dragonfly Enthusiastic Beastman Wolfberk Harpie Channeler Master Hyperion Necro Gardna Neo-Spacien Grand Mole Reborn Tengu T.G. Striker The Agent of Mystery - Earth Thunder Seahorse Tragoedia Tsukuyomi Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier Advanced Ritual Art Book of Moon Charge of the Light Brigade Foolish Burial Hieratic Seal of Convocation Level Limit - Area B Magical Stone Excavation Pot of Duality Reasoning Scapegoat Gravity Bind Hysteric Party Macro Cosmos Magic Cylinder Ojama Trio Royal Decree Skill Drain [/spoiler] [spoiler='Changes Only'] [spoiler='Forbidden'] Forbidden: From Limited Left Leg of the Forbidden One Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning Dark Armed Dragon Elemental HERO Stratos Gorz the Emissary of Darkness Honest Inzektor Hornet Morphing Jar Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon T.G. Hyper Librarian Black Whirlwind Card Destruction Gateway of the Six Infernity Launcher Limiter Removal Monster Reborn Pot of Avarice Return from the Different Dimension Ultimate Offering From Semi Archlord Kristya Royal Tribute From Unlimited Atlantean Dragoons Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Chicken Constellar Sombres Infernity Archfiend Judgment Dragon Moulinglacia the Elemental Lord Nurse Reficule, the Fallen One Evilswarm Kerykeion Gladiator Beast Gyzarus Blaze Fenix, the Burning Bombardment Bird Shooting Quasar Dragon Vylon Sigma Constellar Ptolemys M7 Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger Hieratic Dragon King of Atum Number 11: Big Eye Number 16: Shock Master Divine Wind of Mist Valley Final Countdown Gishki Aquamirror Night Beam Rekindling Spellbook Judgment Day Vylon Element Bad Reaction to Simochi Chain Material Self-Destruct Button [/spoiler] [spoiler='Limited'] Limited: From Forbidden: Magician of Faith From Semi: Rescue Rabbit Tour Guide from the Underworld Chain Strike Bottomless Trap Hole Mirror Force Torrential Tribute From Unlimited: Blaster, Elemental Dragon of Calderas Geargiarmor Grandsoil the Elemental Lord Infernity Mirage Mermail Abysslinde Mermail Abyssteus Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones Tidal, Elemental Dragon of Cascades Watthopper Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei" Karakuri Steel Shogun mdl 00X "Bureido" Evilswarm Ophion Evolzar Dolkka Evolzar Laggia Gear Gigant X Madolche Queen Tiaramisu Fire Formation - Tenki Forbidden Lance Madolche Chateau Mystical Space Typhoon Spellbook of Secrets Swords of Revealing Light Wave-Motion Cannon Wind-Up Factory Call of the Haunted Just Desserts Secret Barrel [/spoiler] [spoiler='Semi-Limited'] Semi-Limited: From Limited: Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind Inzektor Dragonfly Neo-Spacian Grand Mole T.G. Striker Book of Moon Charge of the Light Brigade Foolish Burial Scapegoat From Unlimited: Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World Enthusiastic Beastman Wolfberk Harpie Channeler High Priestess of Prophecy Master Hyperion Necro Gardna Thunder Seahorse Harpie's Hunting Grounds Level Limit - Area B Gravity Bind Hysteric Party Macro Cosmos Magic Cylinder Royal Decree Skill Drain [/spoiler] [spoiler='Unlimited'] Unlimited From Limited: Gladiator Beast Bestiari Formula Synchron One for One Primal Seed From Semi: Summoner Monk Thunder King Rai-Oh A Hero Lives E - Emergency Call [/spoiler] [/spoiler] [/spoiler] Armz, if I missed anything, let me know. If you have any questions, Armz and I will be happy to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 If you're going to touch rekindling, why not just flat-out ban it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aix Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I don't get the limit on Harpie's Hunting Grounds. How about Divine Wind of Mist Valley? Why is Rekindling only Limited? It fills your entire field for no cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 If you're going to touch rekindling, why not just flat-out ban it? Class? I dunno, I'll let Armz decide on that. I don't get the limit on Harpie's Hunting Grounds. How about Divine Wind of Mist Valley? I didn't want to see infinite MSTs, really. May change. ...why should I hit Divine Wind of Mist Valley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I keep seeing people hitting Infernity. Are they topping again or something? I'm actually ok with this. Only thing that really bothers me was Aquamirror banned. Though, its more for personal reasons since that card is how my GF and I got together. Maybe switch Chateau with Majoline? Other than that, I would have no problems with this list at all. Well done. EDIT- Why hit the Nurse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aix Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 ...why should I hit Divine Wind of Mist Valley? Cuz it causes a field-filling loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
·Toot Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Hunting Grounds? I understand that you get to pop one of my face-downs, but you would have to pop your own if I didn't have any. That part kind of confused me. And limiting Magician of Faith is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Can I get your reasoning on Element? No matter how much I like Vylons, the deck suffers from dead hands often enough that it is impossible to be a Tier 1 deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Why would you hit Infernity Mirage in addition to Launcher? It's pretty clear that the problem is the endless searcher, who single-handedly enables variants that don't even need Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpoleMew Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I didn't want to see infinite MSTs, really. Which is why Bestiari is at 3 right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Why would you hit Infernity Mirage in addition to Launcher? It's pretty clear that the problem is the endless searcher, who single-handedly enables variants that don't even need Mirage. I'd rather ban Mirage, Archfiend AND Launcher, but I can see your point. Which is why Bestiari is at 3 right? Which is also why I'm reconsidering Hunting Grounds, but thanks for your sarcasm. Cuz it causes a field-filling loop. With what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringerofcake Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Why Semi Channeler? Is it just for the consistency hit, or something else? EDIT: Also, Seahorse to 2 rather than 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Why Semi Channeler? Is it just for the consistency hit, or something else? EDIT: Also, Seahorse to 2 rather than 1? Anything we put to 2, we put it there to take down consistency or because it was problematic @3. Seahorse may be god awful design, but we didn't feel like it needed to be banned for this format past making sure it couldn't search itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 With what? blastfan, birdman, any way to bounce a wind monster (like harpie dancer). and do note that only dancer and divine wind need to be in hand to start the combo. it is after all the centerpiece of the dancer ftk, it really does deserve a hit. not outright banned, a limit or semi-limit works just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 blastfan, birdman, any way to bounce a wind monster (like harpie dancer). and do note that only dancer and divine wind need to be in hand to start the combo. it is after all the centerpiece of the dancer ftk, it really does deserve a hit. not outright banned, a limit or semi-limit works just fine. We'll discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suibon Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 You guys chastise me for a list made in too much theory-oh with no grounds on whatever reality is, and then you go ban a vanilla. A VANILLA. Even in the context of heads and limbs, banning vanillas is just... wat . I'll let that simmer for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringerofcake Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 You guys chastise me for a list made in too much theory-oh with no grounds on whatever reality is, and then you go ban a vanilla. A VANILLA. Even in the context of heads and limbs, banning vanillas is just... wat . I'll let that simmer for a bit. I agree that if you ban one limb, you might as well go whole hog and ban them all. Or just ban the head and make Exodia The Forbidden One ACTUALLY Forbidden. I know Left Leg FTK is a serious problem right now, but the name thing is SO much more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 You guys chastise me for a list made in too much theory-oh with no grounds on whatever reality is, and then you go ban a vanilla. A VANILLA. Even in the context of heads and limbs, banning vanillas is just... wat . I'll let that simmer for a bit. Yeah, because it totally matters that we banned the leg over the head. As if that's the same thing as bringing 3 PSZ, 3 Malicious, 3 BftDD, and 3 Foolish into the game. We could have banned any of the 5 cards to solve the problem, which, by the way, is proven by gameplay AND theory-oh to kill Exodia as a deck. We went with a vanilla to be humorous. We were deciding between the right arm and left leg. I said right arm as a reference to the jag-offs who play the deck being halted, Armz said left leg for... idr what reason. If you SERIOUSLY have a problem with that, take it up with the last fuck I gave away to Black, cause I'm all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 You guys chastise me for a list made in too much theory-oh with no grounds on whatever reality is, and then you go ban a vanilla. A VANILLA. Even in the context of heads and limbs, banning vanillas is just... wat . I'll let that simmer for a bit. I've seen something about how banning one of Exoderpia's limbs helps control him in Traditional better than going for his head. Something about only one of his pieces being @3 in Trad while the rest is @1 or something. Besides, it's funny. As for the list itself: Is Anti-Burn really enough of a problem/designed badly enough to warrant banning Reficule and Simoichi? If it can't do anything too well and isn't too infuriating, then I don't really see the reason we can just leave it alone in its corner of suck like Destiny Board. I want to say Motion-Wave Cannon got hit a little hard, but then again, MST is Limited. It does seem useful for going against someone who is "Playing Final Countdown" in this format, but I guess the potential to do 3k-so damage might be a bit too much. I'm not really so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suibon Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I do agree it's funny, and I'm always one for humor. On the other hand, it's still a vanilla... but I'm nitpicking at this point. No one messes with comedy gold. One more thing -- how do you summon Shitting Quasar Dragon in this format? (Yes, I like nicknames. Now scram.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I do agree it's funny, and I'm always one for humor. On the other hand, it's still a vanilla... but I'm nitpicking at this point. No one messes with comedy gold. As far as I can tell you're not trying to nitpick. You're trying to be vengeful. Made fairly obvious by the connotations of the first sentence of your last post. I've seen something about how banning one of Exoderpia's limbs helps control him in Traditional better than going for his head. Something about only one of his pieces being @3 in Trad while the rest is @1 or something. Besides, it's funny. As for the list itself: Is Anti-Burn really enough of a problem/designed badly enough to warrant banning Reficule and Simoichi? If it can't do anything too well and isn't too infuriating, then I don't really see the reason we can just leave it alone in its corner of suck like Destiny Board. I want to say Motion-Wave Cannon got hit a little hard, but then again, MST is Limited. It does seem useful for going against someone who is "Playing Final Countdown" in this format, but I guess the potential to do 3k-so damage might be a bit too much. I'm not really so sure. Playing against burn is like watching someone else play solitaire and then tell you that you lost The Game afterwords. Safe to say we went after it hard. One more thing -- how do you summon Shitting Quasar Dragon in this format? (Yes, I like nicknames. Now scram.) There are 2 searchable 3 card combinations involving Level Eater and Quickdraw. One uses Synchron Explorer, the other uses Quillbolt Hedgehog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suibon Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 As far as I can tell you're not trying to nitpick. You're trying to be vengeful. Made fairly obvious by the connotations of the first sentence of your last post. True, but to a point -- I see limbs being banned for all to see on ideal lists all the time. I'm from Pojo, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I'm from Pojo, after all. WOW. Okay, everything makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Lightsworn seems to be a really powerful Deck here even without JD unless I've missed something. Possibly hit Recharge or something like that? Also this sounds a bit silly but have you considered a hit on Nobleman of Crossout? It seems like a format where Ryko is a key card so idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Can I get your reasoning on Element? No matter how much I like Vylons, the deck suffers from dead hands often enough that it is impossible to be a Tier 1 deck. Unless I missed your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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