Dark Hole

[Blake]

 

So YCM, should this card be mained Post-LTGY? Why or why not?

[Tourmaline]

I'm trying to tell my friend it's almost like Raigeki but you have to actually time it, but he thinks the card isn't very good. I still think it's a very good card.

I'm not so keen on Elemental Dragons, but do they really mind being in the Graveyard? I'm oddly thinking that Summon Limit has a use, but I'm observing and asking more than making any judgments.

[.codex]

I dislike this card's design, it's cheap, and it opens up for so many posibilities. Constellar are unaffacted by it it if you use it right, and so are Evilswarm.

[Blake]

I dislike this card's design, it's cheap, and it opens up for so many posibilities. Constellar are unaffacted by it it if you use it right, and so are Evilswarm.

It's cheap removal for cheap, easily renewed resources, that only really hurts if you overextend like hell.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Banned in Restrict Format.

 

OT - The difference between this and Heavy Storm is that Heavy Storm is a necessary evil, where as this...is just...no.

[Althemia]

Don't really see the point in maining it in a format like this if I'm entirely honest. With the amount of ways to play around it, you're better off just side boarding it for a match-up where you know it'll actually be put to good use. (i.e. Mermails.)

[Aerion Brightflame]

At a competitive level, I would say no.

 

Two of the major decks have searchable field Lances, so it doesn't bother me. And Dragon Rulers can basically laugh it off.

 

Like Koko said, it's now become side worthy at best, depending on what other decks turn up that you play.

[Blake]

Banned in Restrict Format.

 

OT - The difference between this and Heavy Storm is that Heavy Storm is a necessary evil, where as this...is just...no.

You seriously have no business making a format if this is how you feel on the subject.

 

Dark Hole is in no way bad for the game and banning it is idiotic. It has a similar purpose to Heavy Storm, except it punishes more easily renewed resources. If you're really thinking this is banworthy, stop overextending and being wasteful and value your resources.

 

Hell, people actually call for it to move UP, not down. Yes, it can shift the tide, but how is a card that makes people more afraid of overextension bad for the game?

[Strider Tigerwolf]

You seriously have no business making a format if this is how you feel on the subject.

 

Dark Hole is in no way bad for the game and banning it is idiotic. It has a similar purpose to Heavy Storm, except it punishes more easily renewed resources. If you're really thinking this is banworthy, stop overextending and being wasteful and value your resources.

 

Hell, people actually call for it to move UP, not down. Yes, it can shift the tide, but how is a card that makes people more afraid of overextension bad for the game?

Dark hole in this broken meta doesn't even matter. Siding it is the BEST option right now since it doesn't even matter for crap with all the forms of outs several decks have for it, and one of the most stupid cards being Starlight Road since it's bad without the existence of these types of cards in the first place.

 

I think it's ban worthy not because I overextend (something which I don't since it really hurts when you don't have any outs in this broken meta and even noob players should know not to do in the first place), but because of the fact that its an out that shifts the game usually unfairly. It can painstakingly rob games (not to the extent of Reborn), but it clears the way for OTKs. THAT's why I banned it in Restrict Format (since it's entirely different from the meta irl).

 

IRL, this card doesn't even deserve to be touched. Why? Because "It doesn't matter anymore". Dark Hole is so ineffective against most of the top decks like Prophecy, E-Drags, etc, etc that banning it right now isn't even going to do anything.

 

In short:

Dark Hole is broken in a slower, restricted and maintained format (which don't just include the ones I've created).

Dark Hole should either stay @1, or even be bumped up to 2 in the current meta because right now it isn't doing shit.

[.codex]

Regardless of the format, it's still a dumb card, and really it should just stay at 1, if not 0.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Regardless of the format, it's still a dumb card, and really it should just stay at 1, if not 0.

*points*

 

This

[Blake]

In short:

Dark Hole is broken in a slower, restricted and maintained format (which don't just include the ones I've created).

Dark Hole should either stay @1, or even be bumped up to 2 in the current meta because right now it isn't doing shit.

In a slower meta, it's still not anymore broken than Heavy Storm. It does a similar purpose for monsters, which, again, are much easier to renew than S/T.

People saying it should be at 2 said it before this format was even a glimmer in its creator's eye, so try again.

[Superdoopertrooper]

I think it's ban worthy not because I overextend (something which I don't since it really hurts when you don't have any outs in this broken meta and even noob players should know not to do in the first place), but because of the fact that its an out that shifts the game usually unfairly. It can painstakingly rob games (not to the extent of Reborn), but it clears the way for OTKs. THAT's why I banned it in Restrict Format (since it's entirely different from the meta irl).

 

How does it shift the game "unfairly"? If you don't recklessly overextend, it's basically no more effective than Smashing Ground. If you play too many monsters knowing damn well Dark Hole exists in the game, and you lose advantage to that because of your decision, then that is the definition of fair. You made a choice you didn't have to make, and it backfired. And clearing the way for OTK's? Man, your format must be awful if OTK's happen whenever Dark Hole gets played lol. So if I summoned 1 monster, and you have Smashing Ground, I'm gunna get OTK'd!!!

 

Dark Hole is broken in a slower, restricted and maintained format (which don't just include the ones I've created).

 

No, Dark Hole is never broken. In slower formats, it's arguably even better for the game than faster ones, because generally faster ones are the formats where Dark Hole is the least effective anyway (like Advanced right now). In slower ones, it makes players have to consider more carefully what and how many monsters they commit to the field.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

OTKs don't happen in restrict. They're at the point where if you even Dropped this, you still can't OTK unless the game has progressed for several turns, and even then it's REALLY unlikely. In Chance Format, it's a little different but that's due for update post tournament.

 

@Mari - I'm aware people have said Dark Hole to 2 again. I'm restating that. Also, even if monsters are able to be renewed alot easier than the backrow, they are also more susceptible to counters as well. We already have plenty of ways to deal with monsters, I'm not going to let others just go troll and drop this...actually now that I think about it, that same logic goes to Heavy Storm regardless of whether or not its necessary evil also. *bans*

[Superdoopertrooper]

OTKs don't happen in restrict. They're at the point where if you even Dropped this, you still can't OTK unless the game has progressed for several turns, and even then it's REALLY unlikely. In Chance Format, it's a little different but that's due for update post tournament.

 

@Mari - I'm aware people have said Dark Hole to 2 again. I'm restating that. Also, even if monsters are able to be renewed alot easier than the backrow, they are also more susceptible to counters as well. We already have plenty of ways to deal with monsters, I'm not going to let others just go troll and drop this...actually now that I think about it, that same logic goes to Heavy Storm regardless of whether or not its necessary evil also. *bans*

 

Why did you use OTK's as an excuse for banning Hole then? That's one of the worst arguments you can ever make.

 

And congratulations, you just removed the decision making factor and skill in setting backrow. Have fun in your dumbed-down format.

[Agro]

I'm enjoying how I don't have to argue that chance's formats are god awful this time. Feels nice.

Though being on the same side as poopertrooper is a little unnerving.

OT: It's a necessary good.

[Sleepy]

It's not even a "play around" factor anymore. Sometimes you could Dark Hole 2 or 3 monsters, or even 4 from your opponent's side, and they'd still just swarm back up next turn without many loses. Actually, nowadays we have decks that even get pluses instead of minuses during their swarm combos.

 

It's kinda unfortunate, in a way...

[Stan Alda]

This is, without a doubt, the most balanced nuke in the game. Seriously. In any format. Keep it where it is.

 

It has two great counters. There, it's balanced.

 

 

 

...I'm obviously exaggerating, but Dark Hole is a necessary evil at worst. How many people use this for OTK enabling? I sure don't. Sky Scourges, Black Rose Dragon, Judgement Dragon, my beloved Neo Daedalus, and Chaos Emperor Dragon are the real OTK-enabling nukes.

[Resident Fascist]

I don't like it post LTGY if the format turns out like we think it will. It fails to hit the 3 big decks of the format, and granted it does hit Mermail and Fire Fist adqueately, I haven't been seeing them win any OCG tournements that often anymore, atleast in comparison to Incarnate Dragons, Magicals and Verz. Just the fact that Dark Hole isn't viable this format shows you how fucking dumb Incarnates, Verz and Prophecy/Magicals are. I was already iffy on Dark Hole in Infernity as it was, but the fact the meta as is, I'm definately going to be taking it out and trying how it works.