Leviair the Sea Dragon

[Sora1499]

 

Holy shit, this thing is soooooooo amazingly broken!!!!  The plays it can make are GODLY, especially in decks like Fables and Infernity.

 

When I first started this game I thought it was mediocre at best, but now it's obvious that this is one of the best rank 3s out there, and definitely the most gamebreaking.

 

Also if anyone mentions dino rabbit I'll beat you senseless with a spoon.  IT WILL HAPPEN.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

Nothing quite like going TGU -> Tour Bus -> This -> Fetch your Sangan -> Warwolf from hand -> This -> Fetch your opponent's TKRO -> Poke.

[Sleepy]

Dinno Rabbi-*knocked down by a stone*

 

I use it as my only Rank 3 in my Heraldic build through Tour Guide.

It's amazing. It recycles the banished tools that will also do something else in the Graveyard. Plus, Heraldics can recharge it and get a search out of it's detached Leo, and I've had 69 copy it.

 

 

This is a really powerful card despite it's looks.

If it was made back in the Synchro era, it'd probably only  do it's effect upon Synchro Summon, or by some discard.

It allows for big plays to connect.

[Sora1499]

Dinno Rabbi-*knocked down by a stone*

[Aerion Brightflame]

I love this thing in 3-Axis.

 

Getting Wolfberk with this at the end of a Horse Play is just to nice. (Yes, I run Wolfberk in Chicken Fists. It tests well)

 

But the card is pure amazing. So simple, and yet sooo damn good.

[Mysty]

Personally, I feel like design space should not have been explored. If a card is banished, it should either be:
• temporarily put out of play, and recoverable by the card that put it there
• gone forever.
In either way, Leviair's design interferes with that.
The fact that it summons the monster back makes it not just badly designed, but broken.

However, Konami has no intention of fixing the game, as doing so would require banning half to all of the cards that are used more recently.

[mido9]

Personally, I feel like design space should not have been explored. If a card is banished, it should either be:
• temporarily put out of play, and recoverable by the card that put it there
• gone forever.

What's wrong with the GY being a second graveyard assuming that all the plays it leads up to with that sort of access are balanced?

 

It's well designed, no problem, TGU/crane/etc break it.

[Mysty]

What's wrong with the GY being a second graveyard assuming that all the plays it leads up to with that sort of access are balanced?

 

It's well designed, no problem, TGU/crane/etc break it.

Because that's what the first graveyard is for. The banish was designed to be a more permanent place of getting rid of cards; it means very little if it becomes a second Graveyard, especially since banishing cards from the Graveyard is a cost on many a card.

I just feel like there are some designs that should not be used. For example, I still don't like the idea of cards being able to be used straight out of the deck (like the Familiar-Possessed cards). I understand when these effects pop up occasionally and on bad cards, but when they come up time after time again and/or become extremely prevalent in the game, I have a problem with the idea.

The issue with your argument is that the way the game is designed, at least certain decks are able to make instant Rank 3s. To balance Leviair, you have to make it so Tour Guide and Crane Crane get banned/not made (so that this ability isn't generic) and that Rank 3 spam decks can't abuse its ability. If such is the case, then it becomes the kind of card I described in my second sentence of my second paragraph, and I would find it tolerable.

[Coffee Black]

Personally, I feel like design space should not have been explored. If a card is banished, it should either be:
• temporarily put out of play, and recoverable by the card that put it there
• gone forever.
In either way, Leviair's design interferes with that.
The fact that it summons the monster back makes it not just badly designed, but broken.

However, Konami has no intention of fixing the game, as doing so would require banning half to all of the cards that are used more recently.

People don't play yugioh because of the game's design. They play it to use busted cards and combos. Honestly, the original intent of the banish pile is completely irrelevant. Going by that logic all draw cards should be banned since by original game design you should only draw during the Draw Phase.

 

OT: Leviair really is the most abusable Rank 3, although universally the best one is Zenmaines. Leviair is only played in specialized decks while something like Zenmaines is good at almost any point of the game. Even though it's a bit taboo in this thread, here's what I'll mention about Rabbit: just put Rabbit to 1, since it's just hate.dek. And really there are numerous other problems right now other then the Leviair + Rabbit combo.

[Suibon]

Holy shit, this thing is soooooooo amazingly broken!!!!

 

Hmmmm... no.

 

When I think of a card that is 'amazingly broken' in the context of bringing Exceeds out, I don't usually think of the Exceeds themselves -- I think of those cards that dodge the costs (to either resources or tempo -- or even both) associated with Exceed Summoning. I think of things like Tour Guide from the Underworld, gateway to Leviair and other Rank 3 Exceeds in general as it is, without prior commitment of resources to ensure a successful Exceed Summon, and without paying tangible costs in card advantage or somesuch (because Exceed Summoning is pricey business -- hear, hear).

 

It may well be that Leviair should go to 0 nonetheless, but we must first take note of the costs and conditions for running Leviair, as well as existing cost-dodging measures to summon it.

[Blake]

[quote name="Suibon" post="6217797" timestamp="1370743266"][center]Hmmmm... no.[/center] [center] [/center] [center]When I think of a card that is 'amazingly broken' in the context of bringing Exceeds out, I don't usually think of the Exceeds themselves -- I think of those cards that dodge the costs (to either resources or tempo -- or even both) associated with Exceed Summoning. I think of things like Tour Guide from the Underworld, gateway to Leviair and other Rank 3 Exceeds in general as it is, without prior commitment of resources to ensure a successful Exceed Summon, and without paying tangible costs in card advantage or somesuch (because Exceed Summoning is pricey business -- hear, hear).[/center] [center] [/center] [center]It may well be that Leviair should go to 0 nonetheless, but we must first take note of the costs and conditions for running Leviair, as well as existing cost-dodging measures to summon it.[/center][/quote] I use The Fabled Ganashia to add Fabled Kushano from grave to hand. Then I NS and overlay into Leviair. I just made it on a +0 in a deck that only needs it's normal summon to be good enough to make plays. Leviair is good enough. Xyz monsters are cards that are fundamentally a worse design than the other Extra Deck monsters. Synchros mostly relied on running a bunch of weak monsters, especially tuners, to build into strong. The usual payoff for such was a beater with a decent to good effect effect, though some were clearly well beyond solid and some under. Fusions require specific monsters of some sort. It might just be a type or attribute, but there is a restriction on it. You then must use some other card to properly summon them. Usually this is costly, unless playing something such as Miracle Fusion, Miracle Cntact, and sora Gem-Knight Fusion. Xyz reward you for having 2+ monsters of the same level. Not only is this far more generic than the last two, but the payoff tends to be much bigger than a synchro monster in exchange for a loss in raw power, normally. King of the Feral Imps, Leviair, Shock Master, Constellar Pleiades, Constellar Ptolemy M7, and Big Eye are all good examples of what you trade in for, and all of them are more than worth it in the right scenarios. The fact that Xyz are much more simple to make than Synchros or Fusions is compounded by the fact that you can make them with cards that are already powerful, instead of trading in the general power of the main deck to toolbox from the extra. Another issue with this design is that in order for it to be worth it with higher ranks, you have to have easily summoned monsters of that level. This, inherently, is not a problem, but when you consider that most cards like that aren't worth it unless they have some punch to them as well shows the issue with the Xyz Mechanic's design and balance. Either that, or there have to be low level cards that can easily manipulate their levels to make it simpler to summon higher Ranked monsters, but cards that do that have to be restricted and not really do anything else, lest they be too good (See: Harpie Dancer. Too strong, deck is just lacking. Things like Wind-Up Shark or Constellar Kaus have happened, too, which are examples of what should be done instead of what shouldn't be done, but they have amazing support to back themselves). No, Leviair is not entirely to blame. At the same time, it's not faultless either. It's not a card that shouldn't really exist and it's not a pressing issue with things that can Rank 3 over anything else. Calls for this card to be banned at this time are silly, but you can't deny that it is an extremely potent card, and that 1800 is still a respectable attack with what it enables. Being able to make a +0 monster from the extra deck isn't an issue, but making Leviair on a -1 can still be an issue, which can be said of a lot of Xyz Monsters as they redefine the concept of the advantage you're giving up to create them. You aren't making a -1 Xyz, usually, due to the nature of the mechanic, but if you do it's definitely worth it (Pleiades is a good example). You cannot say the Extra Deck is not something you can blame any more than you can say Rabbit wasn't to blame with Dino Rabbit. If you put something with too much power into the Extra Deck for what it takes to make it, it is certainly not a fair card to say the very least, as it can be brought out just about any time if your deck is capable of forming it. And cards like Evilswarm Castor, Constellar Pollux, and other such cards that make -1 Xyz quickly show that, and you can't exactly blame a -1 hand-reliant method of making Xyz of a certain Rank despite the ease of which it allows.

[ihop]

It's amazing in Dino Rabbit because you can get back Rabbit and go for another Evolzar which is amazing.

 

Yeah, I said it.

[Wildflame]

I feel like the only thing broken about this card is its interaction with Rescue Rabbit, that's about it.

[vla1ne]

I got this card ultimate rare during the sneak peek. and I traded it for a stardust. to this day I regret that decision.

[BlackRoseQueen]

Huh, I was actually considering this card this morning. But it's not too compatible with either of me decks, so bleh.

[Northern Sage]

Nothing quite like going TGU -> Tour Bus -> This -> Fetch your Sangan -> Warwolf from hand -> This -> Fetch your opponent's TKRO -> Poke.

Then that awkward moment when Sangan is banned.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

Then that awkward moment when Sangan is banned.

Last format, it was freakishly funny to pull off, though, in my Agents Deck.