Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Bear

[Miror B]

Gorrila can do that to backrow though... Just saying. Bear's not unique in that respect.

Bear hits monsters, then gets its effect by doing battle damage. Meaning you can take out the bigger threats you can't run over then either direct attack or hit a smaller monster for more searching.

[El Majishan]

Gorrila can do that to backrow though... Just saying. Bear's not unique in that respect.

 

And that's still not a problem? Plus's aren't bad for the game, neither is having a steady source of them. I mean Bear in part requires player interaction to properly work and give the level of +'s it does. Steady plus's don't break a card or a deck. It kills off cards at a +0, not at a +1, and gives it's player another + for player interaction. Nothing about the effect is broken, it's just a great card.

 

It might seem like I'm being the Devil's Advocate here, but no single card in the Tenki engine is to play. The interaction between the two just happens to be bloody brilliant. And I'm of the opinion that the engine shouldn't touched.

 

Gorilla is meh at best though...if it was on the same level as Bear it would be ran in multiples.

 

If Bear kills something off with its effect it's more so a +1 than a +0 since Formations effects are usually one-shots anyway. The only Formation card that can be counted as a +0 with Bear is Tensu since it's effect is once per turn. Then, when it does damage it pulls another Formation Spell from the deck...so that's a +2 (+3 if it's a Tenki and you haven't used one for the turn.)

[Aerion Brightflame]

Bear hits monsters, then gets its effect by doing battle damage. Meaning you can take out the bigger threats you can't run over then either direct attack or hit a smaller monster for more searching.

I know that. It's why Bear is so damn good.

 

I'm nit-picking because Bear isn't unique in the flavor of his ability for lack of a word. The point is if Tenki is an issue because it's searchable, it's more than just Bear to blame for that in the deck itself (Despite the deck devolving into Bear.dek) .

 

 

Gorilla is meh at best though...if it was on the same level as Bear it would be ran in multiples.

 

If Bear kills something off with its effect it's more so a +1 than a +0 since Formations effects are usually one-shots anyway. The only Formation card that can be counted as a +0 with Bear is Tensu since it's effect is once per turn. Then, when it does damage it pulls another Formation Spell from the deck...so that's a +2 (+3 if it's a Tenki and you haven't used one for the turn.)

Again, just pointing out that Bear isn't alone, not that Gorrila is as good as Bear.

 

It's an inherant +0. The only Fire Formation that gives immediate definative card advantage is Tenki (Arguably Tenken as well), which means it is a +0. And yes, when it searches it does become a +1/2. But that doesn't make it bad, simply by the nature of how it gets it, it does require the player interaction to go off. It might not seem like a decent enough point, but it balanced Bear. If it said: When an opponents monster is destroyed by the effect of a Fire Fist Card; Set one Fire Formation from your deck, it would broken. But it's not, it's balanced out by the fact it requires you to get off that attack. (Now someone will mention something like Yata, that's a fundamental problem of the effect itself, which isn't the case with bear).

 

I just don't see why the card needs the hit when it's fundamentally balanced. The same as with Tenki when it's a balanced searcher. The two of them are balanced cards, in a balanced deck, that make a great engine. The only real close to negative interaction they have is when they are together, but as we've been looking at, it's not the fault of either single piece.

[Synchronized]

Tenki should be at 1.  This is almost un-arguable.  The card is recyclable and tutors so many cards at no cost while sticking around to offer extra pluses.  It's worse than RotA because you can re-use it.  Especially in Decks like Constellars where Pleiades can just bounce it back to hand and you go ahead and do it all over again.

 

Bear isn't a problem card and is just a very balanced, but also very good card.

[byak]

if you limited bear instead of tenki the deck would still rush everything using spirit/rooster/horseprince and would be just as consistent. it'd also have the bear it needs every game because of how easy it is to get to it, and it's not often you need more than one bear. you can even go as far to say that you can revive it with dragon, but not every build can play dragon (though you'd have the space with one bear).

 

limiting bear over tenki is literally dumb because as long as the single bear exists, the engine exists.. there's just too many ways to put bear on the board and make it usable which is the problem.

[Eury]

ITT: People don't know anything about Fire Fist

 

 

if you limited bear instead of tenki the deck would still rush everything using spirit/rooster/horseprince and would be just as consistent. it'd also have the bear it needs every game because of how easy it is to get to it, and it's not often you need more than one bear. you can even go as far to say that you can revive it with dragon, but not every build can play dragon (though you'd have the space with one bear).

 

limiting bear over tenki is literally dumb because as long as the single bear exists, the engine exists.. there's just too many ways to put bear on the board and make it usable which is the problem.

 

Pretty much sums it up

[ihop]

This isn't just played in Fire Fist though, it's splashable in literally every deck that plays beast-warriors. It's an amazing card that well deserved the reprint to stop its price rocketing again.

[玄魔の王]

I'm with Barty, neither of these two cards is inherently a problem and their main issue comes with interacting. Somebody argued that the engine is run in other Beast-Warrior decks, and that's true, but is that engine making the decks good? Can you throw Bear and Tenki into a previously awful deck and have it suddenly be amazing?

The main Beast-Warrior deck besides Fire Fist is Bujin. Tenki makes Yamato consistent, but that in itself isn't inherently bad. The engine together is strong, but Bujin are battle-geared anyway and Bear messes with Vanity's Emptiness, their main wincon this format.

Then there's Fire Kings, who actually have tons of things they want to search with Tenki. Namely Barong and Yakasha, and the latter is what sends the deck to town. Yes Tenki facilitates this, but that's more about what Yakasha does.

Of course, Tenki fetches Wolfbark, but I think everybody knows Wolfbarks is broken on its own.

Overall it's not the design of the cards that's problematic, it's the number of good Beast-Warrior targets in existence. Limit Bear, and you change nothing. Limit Tenki, and the engine becomes weaker, but several decks remain playable.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="幻魔の王" post="6250374" timestamp="1375447816"]I'm with Barty, neither of these two cards is inherently a problem and their main issue comes with interacting. Somebody argued that the engine is run in other Beast-Warrior decks, and that's true, but is that engine making the decks good? Can you throw Bear and Tenki into a previously awful deck and have it suddenly be amazing? The main Beast-Warrior deck besides Fire Fist is Bujin. Tenki makes Yamato consistent, but that in itself isn't inherently bad. The engine together is strong, but Bujin are battle-geared anyway and Bear messes with Vanity's Emptiness, their main wincon this format. Then there's Fire Kings, who actually have tons of things they want to search with Tenki. Namely Barong and Yakasha, and the latter is what sends the deck to town. Yes Tenki facilitates this, but that's more about what Yakasha does. Of course, Tenki fetches Wolfbark, but I think everybody knows Wolfbarks is broken on its own. Overall it's not the design of the cards that's problematic, it's the number of good Beast-Warrior targets in existence. Limit Bear, and you change nothing. Limit Tenki, and the engine becomes weaker, but several decks remain playable.[/quote] So... Just limit Tenki and everyone is ok? :D

[玄魔の王]

Limit Tenki, yes. Problem solved.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

What bugs me about this card is how it finds its way into so many builds these days, as Tenki is so good this format. What ever happened to Constellars where it was, you know, Constellars, not this guy here + pollux + kaus + sombre? Nonetheless, I can't help but love this card. He isn't explicitly broken (though easy to exploit the living hell out of) but at the same time is powerful. In a format where Dracossacks are immune to destruction, this guy really doesn't ruin the game but manages to crush every rogue deck I make is still powerful.

[evilfusion]

I'm disappointed that this is the card they're putting in both tins. Previous tins had Duality, Solemn Warning, Rescue Rabbit, and Zenmaines as the "printed in both tins of that wave" card. Those were cards that were extremely high in value and crucial to almost any Deck. (Rabbit just being amazing in general). Bear...I don't really care about personally in terms of acquiring it. Looking forward to seeing what other cards the tins will have.

 

Then again, I'm probably done buying tins. I have too many and they take up too much physical space. If anything, I'd just grab the promos I want online.