Sleepy Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 so the problem is that no expects to have to prepare for them. ok. I can see where your coming from, but that just tells me that the game has the wrong mindset for that then. and vanguard 'burn' isn't really burn. being a game that doesn't actually have a life count, just a number of damages you can take before your done, card advantage becomes king. burn effects there would taking away your opponent's resources without need to battle. Do you mean "the game" as in a sizable part of the player-base or as in the people in charge of making it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Do you mean "the game" as in a sizable part of the player-base or as in the people in charge of making it? the ones making it. they don't have the sense to even do rock paper scissors in the the generational archtypes as far as I can tell, they have gotten close, but something never fits, not to mention alternate victory, which burn should not be considered part of in a game with a monster-not a monster spread. the main reason why is works in magic and hearthstone is because creatures don't just use one stat to determine who dies, which means that true destruction is generally more restrictive, or higher cost, while the damage effects can also take care of the monsters, creating a situation where if they burn out the player at the wrong times they lose. this is a serious balancing factor for those cards, you can't afford to waste them before you know you can win, yugioh again does not such factors. it's just throw hand down, get more cards, throw them down again. that is burn in a nushell, they don't hold them back to protect, it's an entirely different part of the deck that takes care of it, which then means more of the deck pace is taken up now that is a core design difference, but but the fact that burn has no other use but to reduce life points in a subversive way, means that type of effect is ether a pointless addition to a card, or is an underpowered/overpowered focus of the card, all 3 of which are just, more or less damaging to the game as a whole to be honest, the only cards I can see that does 'burn' right in yugioh is stuff like the timelords, they have a limited span of life, even being creatures, and in burn, your answers are effectively one shot, just like them, they have multiple purposes, and help protect your life from attacks. slifer would be a boss monster equal to a burn deck, high cost to bring out, doubly so for a burn deck, and just auto burns things when they get played. I guess the fact that a burn deck can't be used in fair meta comparisons just shows that the game isn't built to support burn, hence why most pure burn is ether way over the top, or completely pointless to play. is there any way to fix that? on the flip side, life point gain actually sits in the same boat, most of it, it's ether pointless or becomes part of a infinite combo of some kind to have an absurd of hit points that even the strongest monsters in the game would take over 60 turns to get down to even reasonable numbers. I think some of the few balanced out life point gains in the deck comes from cards such as ancient fairy dragon, c101, and the lightsworn synchro. and mill has all but left the game, I think the only 'mill' card worth playing outside of empty jar for the otk combos, would be ghostrick skeleton, who banishes, since most of the time, the graveyard is just another resource. again, in other games mill isn't something that happens all in one turn, because the graveyard isn't some super powerhouse of resources. even in flashback eras of magic, mill still has a prevalent anti meta position, because it takes only a few cards to mitigate any sort of graveyard advantage in that game, in this game, screwing with your opponent's graveyard, is nearly unheard of. then again, if we could on the level of a game ike magic allows us to, I think the game might just crumble immediately because basically every meta level deck is graveyard dependent to such a level it feels like a crack addiction: once your start getting cards in there, you always need more so, considering all this, is there a way to fix both burn and life gain, not to mention milling and graveyard control? this game needs to define it's agro, control, combo, and midrange styles because the game really just feels like it's ether combo control, or hyper combo agro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 this game needs to define it's agro, control, combo, and midrange styles because the game really just feels like it's ether combo control, or hyper combo agro. And that's what the game has become in a nutshell. Combos have become so prevalent in Yugioh that cards that enable playing in a control style (which means you trip up the opposing combo in order to gain control of the game's flow) draws hate for being "you can't play Yugioh your usual plays" cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWrVjKyotY8[/media] I made this just yesterday, fun enough for the reactions, but I agree burn decks are bad for the game and should never be too consistent (like this one) any advice on how to make the deck better is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neochu-H Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 its easy to beat burn with six sams. or 2 star eaters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael D. Striker Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ah Burn, it is something you either love or hate with no room in between. I do have a question though about burn: what is the best way to design a burn card in Yugioh? From what I'm gathering, it can't be a card that is consistent like Chain Burn but not a simple burn card like Ookazi. So, where in the spectrum should burn cards be? I see that Timelords have been mentioned, but I'm trying broaden this towards non-boss monsters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Ah Burn, it is something you either love or hate with no room in between. I do have a question though about burn: what is the best way to design a burn card in Yugioh? From what I'm gathering, it can't be a card that is consistent like Chain Burn but not a simple burn card like Ookazi. So, where in the spectrum should burn cards be? I see that Timelords have been mentioned, but I'm trying broaden this towards non-boss monsters too. A useful card that requires interaction to burn I think is the way to do burn correctly. Fossil Tusker would be a great example if 1900 ATK weren't such a norm for Level 4 monsters of no drawbacks. Or at least this is the best way to design a burn card, but we all know that yugioh isn't known for its great quality design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Ah Burn, it is something you either love or hate with no room in between. I do have a question though about burn: what is the best way to design a burn card in Yugioh? From what I'm gathering, it can't be a card that is consistent like Chain Burn but not a simple burn card like Ookazi. So, where in the spectrum should burn cards be? I see that Timelords have been mentioned, but I'm trying broaden this towards non-boss monsters too. timelords are more an archtype than boss monsters. but burn doesn't care about swarming in general, they want to sit on one monster to block, and potentially burn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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