OmegaWave Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I wanted to bring this topic up because I lost 3 games in a row today in Hearthstone due to pure burn damage from Hunter and Warlock decks. It made me remember how annoying burn decks are in Yugioh. With cards like Magic Cylinder, Nurse Reficule and Gift Card, etc it's easy to see how burn damage can get a little out of control in this game. So what are your thoughts? Are burn decks as big of a problem as a lot of people make them out to be? Or is it a matter of a player simply not being prepared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravires Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 There are only two viable burn decks in the game right now. Reficule Burn is incredibly bad even if it can sack match wins, whereas Chain Burn is actually a competitive threat. I personally don't have problems with them as I've played both competitively before and know their weaknesses and how to play around their win conditions and minimize the damage done, but I can see why others regard them as degenerate. However, Reficule Burn is easily interrupted just by having that MST, Twister, Veiler, Fiendish or Breakthrough ready. The major weakness of the deck is that it is susceptible to interaction with the opponent, and it isn't as consistent as Chain Burn. On the other hand you have Chain Burn, a deck which boasts as its greatest strength a complete lack of player interaction. There's literally nothing you can do to stop it short of having that Black-Winged teched in the Extra, popping backrow immediately when it is set, Veilering those Cardcars or having Trap Stun handy. Unless you know how to play around key burn cards and can still do some damage, which is hard with so many damage dodging and redirecting cards, you can't win the match-up if they draw well enough to drop the 8k. As for players being unprepared, there's little you can do in a burn match-up other than play smart and have knowledge of what their plays are. Even so, the former isn't always going to let you win, especially in a format where so many decks are focused on advantage and the grind game, things that make them even more susceptible to Chain Burn. Finally, winning against the deck is made even more difficult when you factor in the ability of Chain Burn to morph into Inzektor Turbo; it's not like Chain Burn really uses its side for much else, and being able to unexpectedly turn into what is still one of the most consistent OTK decks in the game, while the opponent is going into game 2 or 3 with the mindset to play conservatively against a burn deck, is an incredible advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Burn in general are usually really fun effects, its when you get into decks that use it as the main focus where it becomes an issue. Because like mentioned above, there isn't much you can legitly do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Burn in general are usually really fun effects Burn in general are usually really fun effects Burn in general are usually really fun effects Burn in general are usually really fun effects Because "inflict x to your opponent" is really fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Look at Fossil Tusker. Thats the kind of "fun" I'm looking at. Burn that is linked to other actions, not just "flip and do damage" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravires Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Flipping 2 Accumulated Fortune is hella fun what are you talking about even. Same with 2 Chain Strike, or 3 Secret Barrel against Fire Fists, or 3 Just Desserts against Geargia after they Gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 ..Draw cards are burn cards now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravires Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 They're Chain Burn cards, i.e. honorary burn cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Look at Fossil Tusker. Thats the kind of "fun" I'm looking at. Burn that is linked to other actions, not just "flip and do damage" You said "usually." Usually, burn cards aren't nearly as interactive as Tusker. ..Draw cards are burn cards now? Accumulated Fortune becomes TWO SPARKS!!! IT'S LIKE PLAYING SPARKS!!! BUT TWICE!!! Though, you'd have to activate the second after Strike. And yes, this is relevant in Chain Burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 On the other hand, the right application of burn, even in decks that don't normally do it, can win you duels.I reduced down my opponent to 800, and was forced to end my turn, but I knew that I had won.Because I could easily get out Gagaga Cowboy and finish him off, no matter what he did.And his summoning of Star Eater didn't even help him stop me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravires Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Why Dark Strike Fighter is banned, etc. etc. Also summoning Caius to banish himself on turn 5 game 3 while in end of round procedure at regionals is priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Outside of Chain Burn, Burns decks in general are incredibly sacky and just lack any kinds of decency. Like, you could literally just search "inflict" in any kind of deck builder, then just throw the first 40 you find into a pile and call it a deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 The worst part is that it will never be good enough to survive X rounds and win a tournament, yet players still take it upon themselves to steal games from those players who actually have a shot at winning. If I could, I would eliminate their viability altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravires Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 The same can be said about any OTK deck. Burn decks exist in every TCG, just because YGO players get salty over losing to a deck with little to no player interaction doesn't mean the entire strategy deserves to be unplayable. Chain Burn has been proven to be good enough to top at least once in every recent format, just because you lost to it doesn't mean it "stole" a win from you. That's some incredibly entitled thinking. Magic players have had to deal with overpowered burn decks for years. Chain Burn is nothing when compared to patently unfair things like Dodge and Burn, Sligh-burn, Mana-curve burn and other Mono-Red burn decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Burn decks exist in every TCGExcept Pokemon, on the other hand.......Actually requires you to do something, instead of just tossing out a hand of cards that does a whole 3K damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Vanguard doesn't! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Vanguard doesn't! :D And... it's all of one card that's not even the best boss. And it only burns if they're 4 or less. It may not require interacting with the opp, but it's definitely more akin to something like, say, Laval Cannoneer than Chain strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 When I think about it, there are different types of burn effects. There's the cards that do nothing except burn (Ookazi/etc). and those are usually laughably bad cards because they're a -1 that does minor damage. Chain Burn works because the user has filled their Deck with chainable draw cards, which would normally accomplish very little other than slow deck thinning, but Chain Strike deals more damage the more Chain Links there are, and then Accumulated Fortune actually is a +1. The better types of burn effects are the ones that do something advantageous while including burn, particularly if the burn damage is actually a good amount, such as Volcasaurus destroying and burning based on ATK, or No.104 negating and inflicting 800. As far as burn Decks...they're not very fun to play against. But they can be fun to USE. I used a Chain Burn Deck on one of the old WC games. It'd only lose if I got really unlucky with my draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I actually enjoy playing against (good) burn decks once in a while. Especially when I'm not playing something that completely wrecks them (Decree, Naturia Synchros, etc). It's a good test of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 >Skill you mean speed right? kill them before their burn engine destroys you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 >Skill you mean speed right? kill them before their burn engine destroys you. Beating someone much fast like is seen as skill by some. That's why we have people who play Exodia. People seem to think Yugioh is Time Trials. But I agree fighting to beat these decks is kinda fun and does test your skill, as it says "do whatever you want and beat me before time expires". They make great decks to test out on/against, but not realistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravires Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Except Pokemon, on the other hand.... ...Actually requires you to do something, instead of just tossing out a hand of cards that does a whole 3K damage. Every TCG with a life source pool, rather. Pokemon obviously is an entirely different beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Indeed, Burn Decks are cheap in both forms of the word. They sucker-punch players by figuratively bringing guns to a swordfight, take advantage of the mentality of Critical Existence Failure (only LP that matters is your last), and often compose of cards that don't cost a fortune. To me, their existence is a statement that one does not need to invest a triple-quad-digit sum to have a competent Deck. But the intense hate for burn just confuses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 The main issue with burn is when on extreme ends you are sitting next to an opponent whose win condition differs so much from yours or what you'd usually deal with that you practically have not counters for it. Deck slot choices usually cope better when set in the mode of "this stops me from being killed by a swarm" or "this is my boss of gg", rather than "wanna see if you can break my stall while I decrease your Life without caring for your Lances and Book of Moons"? That's where the general salt comes from. We do have counters for these things like locks and effect negation, which I find a little boring that one has to splash them into every Side Deck or tech choice, but well... other than that, I can't really speak for everyone's individual taste in "fun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 The main issue with burn is when on extreme ends you are sitting next to an opponent whose win condition differs so much from yours or what you'd usually deal with that you practically have not counters for it. Deck slot choices usually cope better when set in the mode of "this stops me from being killed by a swarm" or "this is my boss of gg", rather than "wanna see if you can break my stall while I decrease your Life without caring for your Lances and Book of Moons"? That's where the general salt comes from. We do have counters for these things like locks and effect negation, which I find a little boring that one has to splash them into every Side Deck or tech choice, but well... other than that, I can't really speak for everyone's individual taste in "fun". so the problem is that no expects to have to prepare for them. ok. I can see where your coming from, but that just tells me that the game has the wrong mindset for that then. and vanguard 'burn' isn't really burn. being a game that doesn't actually have a life count, just a number of damages you can take before your done, card advantage becomes king. burn effects there would taking away your opponent's resources without need to battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.