Lady Elysia Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Working off the one we have. I think this is pretty good, but I'm sure I missed some cards; any feedback is greatly appreciated! Newly Forbidden: Denko Sekka Djinn Releaser of Rituals Exodia the Forbidden One Wind-Up Hunter Nekroz of Trishula T.G. Hyper Librarian Fusion Gate Royal Tribute Newly Limited: Aria the Melodious Diva Elemental HERO Shadow Mist Shurit, Strategist of the Nekroz Tribe-Infecting Virus Thousand-Eyes Restrict Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity A Hero Lives Instant Fusion Kaiser Colosseum Sinister Shadow Games Stellarnova Alpha Newly Semi-Limited: Neo-Spacian Grand Mole Reckless Greed Newly Unlimited: Left Arm of the Forbidden One Left Leg of the Forbidden One Right Arm of the Forbidden One Right Leg of the Forbidden One Glow-Up Bulb Dark Strike Fighter Sacred Sword of Seven Stars Exchange of the Spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Preeeeeeeety sure an "Ideal banlist" wouldn't want Geargiauger at 2. Also, hitting Hero Lives over Mist makes more sense, IMO, since it's a far more prominent play. Plus, it would force HEROs to do dumb stuff/jump through hoops to trigger Mist to get Change-cards, rather then just straight-up HERO-E-Tele into it. Not to mention, Mist@1 just means HEROs need to run stuff like Call of the Haunted, which won't really hinder it that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Unbanning Exodia's pieces is the best idea ever; it's just what the deck needs. I'm totally not being sarcastic. Imo (and i think most people would agree) Exodia should be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rividium Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Unbanning Exodia's pieces is the best idea ever; it's just what the deck needs. I'm totally not being sarcastic. Imo (and i think most people would agree) Exodia should be banned. If you look closely, Exodia's head is on OP's forbidden list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Limited: Nekroz of Valkyruswhat the fuckyou hit like the only cool card in the deck, which isn't even the problem.Brionac, Unicore limited, okay.Trishula banned, just because this is ideal and its existence isn't healthy.But why Valkyrus of all things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you look closely, Exodia's head is on OP's forbidden list. I actually missed that. Sorry. Quick question: why is Cyber-stein out of the ban list? so much nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Ban Trishula if you want to hit Nekroz because it's the only thing that really gives them teeth - the fact that people jump through hoops to play around Trish shows how degenerate it is and without it all the deck can really do is summon big-ish monsters. Also, you've failed to even touch the other 3 top decks in Shaddoll, Satellar and Burning Abyss and have instead hit bad decks like HEROes and Melodious Divas (lol). At least Denko is banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Hit Aria and Fusion Gate 2 Gold Sarc ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunduel Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Oh no not these lists again... But to be a bit more constructive, don't hurt Tier 2-3 decks until you didn't get rid of the God Tier decks. As I see from the title, it is an "ideal list", but in reality, keep it in mind that Konami won't hurt decks that will boost sales. In other words, they won't hurt Melodious when they're just releasing new cards for that. Geargiagear is also fine at 1. If anything, Deep Sea Diva should be banned, not put to 2. Hit Trishula instead of Valkyrus. And so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(GigaDrillBreaker) Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Working off the one we have. I think this is pretty good, but I'm sure I missed some cards; any feedback is greatly appreciated! Newly Forbidden: Denko Sekka Sure, fair enough. Djinn Releaser of Rituals I like this. Makes Nekroz less oppressive. Exodia the Forbidden One Doesn't really affect the meta, but it is a damn good idea Wind-Up Hunter Wait what? T.G. Hyper Librarian I mean, the card is legitimately degenerate, so I can see the rationale Fusion Gate I have no clue on this. Seriously no clue at all. Royal Tribute I would say Gravekeepers aren't relevant, but, well, f*** THIS CARD. Fair enough. Newly Limited: Aria the Melodious Diva I have literally no clue here. Cyber-Stein PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFffffffffffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFfFfFfFfFFFFFFFFFFFffffffffff Elemental HERO Shadow Mist I think outright banning Dark Law is the better bet, to be perfectly honest. Shurit, Strategist of the Nekroz I mean, he does give a bit too much advantage, but this doesn't feel like the right hit. Tribe-Infecting Virus Ufookinwotm8? Thousand-Eyes Restrict With Instant Fusion Limited as well, I actually really like this here. Nekroz of Valkyrus See what black said. Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity Is this why Hunter was banned? Instant Fusion Yes. This is a good idea. Kaiser Colosseum Wut? Newly Semi-Limited: Deep Sea Diva Umm.... Neo-Spacian Grand Mole This deserves to go to 3, IMO. Gold Sarcophagus Ummmmmmm......... Geargiagear Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............................. Reckless Greed Ok, I guess... Newly Unlimited: Left Arm of the Forbidden One Left Leg of the Forbidden One Right Arm of the Forbidden One Right Leg of the Forbidden One too broken with rabbit, must be banned Card Trooper Ever heard of Troop Dupe Scoop? Glow-Up Bulb I have can't imagine it being toooo bad, but still a sketchy idea. Dark Strike Fighter Card sucks, so it should be here already. Sacred Sword of Seven Stars Yes. Exchange of the Spirit Card is pretty bad now, so i don't see why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Elysia Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks for the feedback! I've updated the OP based on what you all have been saying, with these changes: Cyber-Stein, Nekroz of Trishula moved to Forbidden A Hero Lives, Deep Sea Diva, Geargiagear, Gold Sarcophagus, Sinister Shadow Games, Stellarnova Alpha moved to Limited Card Trooper moved to Semi-Limited Nekroz of Valkyrus moved to Unlimited To address some of the questions: Fusion Gate was banned because of the Blaze Fenix OTK. Because of the Electrum OTK. Because of the Dragoon OTK. Etc. It's actually similar to the reason I banned Exodia - Fusion Gate + Chain Material is a combo that makes a bunch of completely degenerate OTKs possible, so for an ideal banlist, hitting one of those two was a necessity. I chose Fusion Gate because it seemed to do less splash damage (though I honestly can't think of any non-degenerate decks that use Chain Material, so it could have just as easily gone the other way). Aria was limited because Aria + Elegy is nigh on impossible to get rid of outside of Triverr. I don't think having a gamestate where one player is literally incapable of doing anything at all is healthy for the game. Cyber-Stein...even I don't know what I was thinking with that one, lol. Oh yeah, "high-risk high-reward", but still...not good enough. Back to banned. Hunter is banned because of the Wind-Up loop. It's pretty much a required side effect of unbanning Zenmaity, but unlike Zenmaity it has no legitimate use that I'm aware of. Hadn't heard of Troop Dupe Scoop, wouldn't have unlimited it if I was aware of that. I hit Shaddolls and tellarknights in the new revision (f*** you Alpha, why I didn't limit you in the first place is beyond me). I would have hit BAs but 1. they already took a hit with Tour Guide and 2. I'm honestly not sure what to hit, if I were to hit them. I considered limiting Dante, but I'm not sure if that'd be too excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Hitting both Lives and Mist makes HEROs awkward/unplayable.And as far as Stein goes... It's not so much the high-risk high-reward luck-based shit, but rather... 1st turn Exterios would be stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunduel Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 The list is still far away from "ideal". You get rid of the current topdecks but haven't realized that by that you created a new tier list (Tier 1 Infernoid, and maybe Yosenju & Ritual Beast). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 As much shit as this list is, it's still better than the current OCG list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 If we really want an ideal list, I'd suggest starting here and working our way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I don't think I would agree with some of the decisions I made back then today. holy moly Maybe I should reassess it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Instead of creating a huge banlist, if you want a fun custom format, build a card pool of well designed cards from the ground up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Ideal banlist doesn't exist. Even if you ban out all of the unfair cards in the game like byak did in that old topic, something new will appear. You saw from the posts. "Oh this is strong". And byak considered it banned from then on. It's an endless circle. Even if you "balance" something, people will figure out the best thing and the best thing will overwhelm the rest. Also, even if you do achieve perfect balance, you can't make new cards since each new card added to the equation makes you reconsider the entire balance. tl;dr perfect balance doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Which is why if you build a custom card pool, it's easier to create a "perfect imbalance" with fun and refreshing potential. You start out with a foundation. Dominant strategies becomes evident? Add more cards that aren't strictly better, but offer new perspectives. Also if you attempted to create an "ideal banlist" today, the modern card pool has evolved to the point where the list would be humongous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.