Cyber Dragon Infinity is so fair. :(

[AnnieShifter]

Machine/Xyz/Effect

3 Level 6 LIGHT Machine-Type monsters

You can also Xyz Summon "Cyber Dragon Infinity" once per turn by using a "Cyber Dragon Nova" you control as the Xyz Material. (Xyz Materials attached to that monster also become Xyz Materials on this card.) This card gains 200 ATK for each Xyz Material attached to it. Once per turn: You can target 1 other face-up Attack Position monster on the field; attach it to this card as a face-up Xyz Material. Once per turn, during either player's turn, when a card or effect is activated: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; negate the activation, and if you do, destroy it.

 

Honestly, Cyber Dragon Infinity is such an irritating card. The card is literally defining the OCG. To be fair, what balanced the card was that it was at one point exclusive to the Cyber Dragons, but then Planettellarknight came and made it accessible to all rank 4 builds. The card isn't perfect and you can simply play around it, but without an immediate answer it will wreck you. I do like the card, but it shouldn't be so generic. It is literally an easy to summon quasar101, and shows why not all cards should be generic. The main issue is Planettellarknight. Do any of you think the card will be hit or will planettellarknight. Share your thoughts, I would love to hear them.

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

Whenever someone summons it against me I have no outs. Whenever I summon it, my opponent has Raigeki and Snatch Steal and 2 Dark Holes.

[Blake]

Honestly, Cyber Dragon Infinity is such an irritating card. The card is literally defining the OCG. To be fair, what balanced the card was that it was at one point exclusive to the Cyber Dragons, but then Planettellarknight came and made it accessible to all rank 4 builds. The card isn't perfect and you can simply play around it, but without an immediate answer it will wreck you. I do like the card, but it shouldn't be so generic. It is literally an easy to summon quasar101, and shows why not all cards should be generic. The main issue is Planettellarknight. Do any of you think the card will be hit or will planettellarknight. Share your thoughts, I would love to hear them.

 

wut

 

Everything about that statement is wrong.

 

Firstlt, Ptolemaus is part of CROS' main set. This is part of its Japanese World Premieres. Meaning they appeared at the same time.

 

And Ptolemaus was revealed a few weeks before this thing's existence was known, beyond the rumor of a Chaos Xyz Change for Cydra Infinity.

 

Secondly, not all decks that R4 can run this. A good deal can, but not all of them by any means.

 

This card is the problem with Ptolemaus, not vice-versa. Considering that it's not like this is exclusively made with Ptolemaus (if you recall, Chronomaly can make this easy as piss), this is the issue. It gives Ptolemaus far too much power, but that's not her fault. She has a lot of fair interactions liek turning into a Zenmaioh. Are they generally good interactions? Nah, but they're definitely fair and fine.

 

This card's the abomination, if either.

[mshends]

Yep I think the main problem here is Tellarknight Ptolemaeus. I mean because of this card any deck that can summon her (easily) can summon this thing....(and this thing is really annoying to face against lol)

 

I'm just glad this thing is not going to be in TCG for a very long time

[AnnieShifter]

Cyber Dragon Infinity is a very unfair card in general. Ptolemaus is a great card, but as long as Infinity exists, Ptolemaus will just be used to summon it. In the OCG, Hero's constantly use Ptolemaus to summon Infinity, and they aren't even a pure Rank 4 deck. Infinity is such a good card, that most decks that use level 4's will include Ptolemaus just to bring out Infinity. You are right though, Infinity is the bigger problem, but Ptolemaus just worsens it. 

[Resident Fascist]

Yep I think the main problem here is Tellarknight Ptolemaeus. I mean because of this card any deck that can summon her (easily) can summon this thing....(and this thing is really annoying to face against lol)

 

Except that problematic cards is Ptolemaeus making outside of this card? Ptolemaeus is totally fine outside of this card and maybe a few other extremely niche cases. I'm not seeing the enormous problem Ptolemaeus is supposedly making without this card, like what are you going to ladder into? Adreus? Tiras? Zenmaio? Well that's nice, I guess. Not really anything exactly too game breaking. As for this thing, it's criminally overrated, it's an amazing card but people seem to be claiming it the second coming of Yugioh Jesus. 

[CLG Klavier]

Except that problematic cards is Ptolemaeus making outside of this card? Ptolemaeus is totally fine outside of this card and maybe a few other extremely niche cases. I'm not seeing the enormous problem Ptolemaeus is supposedly making without this card, like what are you going to ladder into? Adreus? Tiras? Zenmaio? Well that's nice, I guess. Not really anything exactly too game breaking. As for this thing, it's criminally overrated, it's an amazing card but people seem to be claiming it the second coming of Yugioh Jesus. 

This card, if not Ptolemaeus, wouldn't be nearly as broken, since you know, you'd have to run a dedicated deck to play it. With Ptolemaeus, any rank 4 deck technically can.

 

Is this card unfair? Yeah, you bet it is. But if you were to summon it naturally, by ranking up Cyber Dragon Nova, it would take some effort and deck dedication to pull off.

 

Standard case of enabler/enabled. Enabler is usually at fault, and so it is here.

[Mugendramon]

yfw everything rank 4 can run this

[Resident Fascist]

This card, if not Ptolemaeus, wouldn't be nearly as broken, since you know, you'd have to run a dedicated deck to play it. With Ptolemaeus, any rank 4 deck technically can.

 

Is this card unfair? Yeah, you bet it is. But if you were to summon it naturally, by ranking up Cyber Dragon Nova, it would take some effort and deck dedication to pull off.

 

Standard case of enabler/enabled. Enabler is usually at fault, and so it is here.

 

Except Ptolemaus is only ever even viable because of this card. Saying the enabler is at fault when it only enables one completely nonsense card and a horde of unfair ones when this card is unfair regardless of how it's summoned doesn't really make much sense to me. It's clear they're both only good in combination with each other, so do we take away the card that actually has some purpose for existing in allowing rank 4 decks a slight splash of rank 5, or do we take away the card that has absolutely no positive purpose in existing at all?

[CLG Klavier]

yfw everything rank 4 can run this

CyDra Infinity and Noden. OCG meta in a nutshell.

 

All because of Ptolemaeus and Instant Fusion, just saying.

Except Ptolemaus is only ever even viable because of this card. Saying the enabler is at fault when it only enables one completely nonsense card and a horde of unfair ones when this card is unfair regardless of how it's summoned doesn't really make much sense to me. It's clear they're both only good in combination with each other, so do we take away the card that actually has some purpose for existing in allowing rank 4 decks a slight splash of rank 5, or do we take away the card that has absolutely no positive purpose in existing at all?

If a card needs to go into a ridiculously overpowered boss to be "viable", then it probably shouldn't. It's your Infernity argument all over again.

 

An enabler is at fault because even if you ban this, new cards will arise. Imagine a rank 5 whose summoning conditions are 2 Level 5 DARK Pendulum Dinosaur-Type Flip monsters that wins the game immediately on summon. Is it THAT dumb? Probably not, it's actually literally unplayable.

 

Oh wait. Ptolemaeus can summon it.

[Spinny]

CyDra Infinity and Noden. OCG meta in a nutshell.

 

All because of Ptolemaeus and Instant Fusion, just saying.

Even though Instant fusion is limited?

I honestly think that both Ptolemaios and this card have terrible design in so many ways.

[Lonk]

Scrubs playing Cyber Dragon Decks to bring this card out don't really have much of anything else.

 

Also, this card's existence is a perfectly valid excuse for running Breakthrough Skill again.

[CLG Klavier]

Even though Instant fusion is limited?

It should be at fucking -1, not even banned, while Noden is around.

[Resident Fascist]

 

If a card needs to go into a ridiculously overpowered boss to be "viable", then it probably shouldn't. It's your Infernity argument all over again.

 

An enabler is at fault because even if you ban this, new cards will arise. Imagine a rank 5 whose summoning conditions are 2 Level 5 DARK Pendulum Dinosaur-Type Flip monsters that wins the game immediately on summon. Is it THAT dumb? Probably not, it's actually literally unplayable.

 

Oh wait. Ptolemaeus can summon it.

 

Ironically this sums up Cyber Dragon Nova. Also, the argument of that rank 5 is actually completely hyperbole and they'd never print a rank 5 that wins the game, I'm not exactly seeing your argument. Banning perfectly fine cards with at least somewhat practical applications, albeit powercreeped out of existence applications is silly when you consider the only card(s) making this anywhere near problematic are problems themselves. 

It should be at fucking -1, not even banned, while Noden is around.

 

Card was totally fine before Noden. Why not just ban Noden?

[mshends]

The probelm I had with Ptolemaeus is that because of this card almost every rank 4 decks can summon Infinity now. I mean this card was meant to be only use for decks that can summon Nova (so decks like galaxy, cyber dragon, Chronomaly etc) And those decks are not competitive. With Ptolemaeus competitve and non-competitve rank 4 decks can now have access to this card (which is really bad). While Ptolemaeus only use at the moment is to summon off Infinity, but what if in the future Konami decide to print a really good (game-breaking) non-number rank 5 (specifically for an archetype or type to use) in the future? (and I'm sure they will do that soon). Rank 4 player will just use Ptolemaeus to summon that off. So right now Konami will need to be a bit careful when making new rank 5, mainly becasue of Ptolemaeus

[CLG Klavier]

Ironically this sums up Cyber Dragon Nova. Also, the argument of that rank 5 is actually completely hyperbole and they'd never print a rank 5 that wins the game, I'm not exactly seeing your argument. Banning perfectly fine cards with at least somewhat practical applications, albeit powercreeped out of existence applications is silly when you consider the only card(s) making this anywhere near problematic are problems themselves. 

 

Card was totally fine before Noden. Why not just ban Noden?

Sure, they won't print a card I just proposed. But they will surely print powerful, RESTRICTED rank 5s in the future. Ptolemaeus completly ignores any possible restriction you might put on.

 

Also Instant Fusion wasn't ever fine. Since day 1, it was enabling stupid shit (Thousand-Eyes Restrict?)

[Resident Fascist]

Sure, they won't print a card I just proposed. But they will surely print powerful, RESTRICTED rank 5s in the future. Ptolemaeus completly ignores any possible restriction you might put on.

 

Also Instant Fusion wasn't ever fine. Since day 1, it was enabling stupid shit (Thousand-Eyes Restrict?)

 

If Instant Fusion were as much of a problem as it is recently, why wasn't it hit sooner? And also, Ptolemaeus adds basically this to the summon condition of every rank 5 "3 Level 4 Monsters OR ____", I don't see a problem with that considering you're giving up extra deck space, and giving up the chance to make Xyzs like Exciton Knight, basically gambling everything onto Ptolemaeus and hoping nothing happens to it while you rank up with it, and if decks wasn't so easily able to summon X Level 4 monsters at the drop of a hat, Ptolemaeus would have a summoning condition. 

[CLG Klavier]

If Instant Fusion were as much of a problem as it is recently, why wasn't it hit sooner?

It should have, but it wasn't. Ask Konami, not me.

And also, Ptolemaeus adds basically this to the summon condition of every rank 5 "3 Level 4 Monsters OR ____", I don't see a problem with that considering you're giving up extra deck space, and giving up the chance to make Xyzs like Exciton Knight, basically gambling everything onto Ptolemaeus and hoping nothing happens to it while you rank up with it, and if decks wasn't so easily able to summon X Level 4 monsters at the drop of a hat, Ptolemaeus would have a summoning condition.

Except you can rank it up the moment you drop it. 3 Level 4s isn't exactly the hardest thing in the planet, you know. And even if you need to sit with him for a turn, you attach an extra material to it at end of turn, and rank up immediately on your opponent's turn. Using up a single, maximum 2 Extra Deck slots to be able to summon Unfair Boss X which is normally out of my deck's reach? You fucking bet I'd do. Decks are currently doing this, you know. With CyDra Infinity. Which we're currently discussing,

[ihop]

good thing I only play TCG

[Resident Fascist]

 Decks are currently doing this, you know. With CyDra Infinity. Which we're currently discussing,

 

 Not sure of the need for the passive aggressive tone here but ok. What I'm trying to get at is you can either hypothetically:

 

Ban Infinity, Ban Noden and then Ptolemaeus turns into a cute tech for Rank 4 decks, Cyber Dragons continue to be terrible and pointless.

 

Ban Ptolemaeus, Ban Noden and then Infinity continues to be a degenerate boss for Cyber Dragons, albeit the deck is still complete trash without it, and other decks will still be making Infinity (See: Chronomaly, pretty sure there's more than 1 Astral Force target for this)

[CLG Klavier]

Not sure of the need for the passive aggressive tone here but ok. What I'm trying to get at is you can either hypothetically:
 
Ban Infinity, Ban Noden and then Ptolemaeus turns into a cute tech for Rank 4 decks, Cyber Dragons continue to be terrible and pointless.
 
Ban Ptolemaeus, Ban Noden and then Infinity continues to be a degenerate boss for Cyber Dragons, albeit the deck is still complete trash without it, and other decks will still be making Infinity (See: Chronomaly, pretty sure there's more than 1 Astral Force target for this)

That's passive-agressive for you? lol

Why would you take away a boss the deck just got which makes it a bit better? Because other decks can access it? Why not ban the way for other decks to access it so the deck it was designed for can use it?

Also, to solidify my point:
Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
Butterfly Dagger - Elma
Cold Wave
Dark Magician of Chaos
Dimension Fusion
Elemental HERO Stratos
Fishborg Blaster
Future Fusion
Gateway of the Six
Mind Master
Mass Driver
Rescue Cat
Return from the Different Dimension
Spellbook of Judgment
Substitoad
Super Rejuvenation
Ultimate Offering

A few of currently banned cards. You won't tell me MASS DRIVER or BUTTERFLY DAGGER - ELMA are banned due to being incredibly OP. Sure, things like Spellbook of Judgment are broken like fuck, but a big part of those cards is somewhere in-between.

Mind telling me a collective reason why those cards are banned?

[ihop]

Realistically both cards are an issue here - Infinity is obviously ridiculously good and even with Ptolemaeus gone it just makes Cyber Dragons a deck dependent on opening a way to make it, as well as Chronomaly getting massive advantage if they have the Astral Force. Ptolemaeus is a seriously slippery slope because it has so few restrictions on what it summons, meaning it gives you access to such a wide amount of things that it limits future card creation because, as Klav said, it means they can't make rank 5s with powerful effects but difficult summoning conditions because you'll just be able to make any of them with 3 level 4s. I don't really agree with the "ban the enabler, not the enabled" argument but in this case I think the enabled is broken in its own right as well as the enabler.

[Blake]

I didn't read all this, so apologies if I'm covering somethign that already happened.

 

Lest you forget, Chronomal still exist. While not the strongest deck, the OCG Meta is a mixture of this and Atlantean, iirc. And Chronomaly make this on the cheap.

 

It's not 'dedication', it makes cards like Galaxy Soldier absurd.

 

Ptolemaus has niche uses to sell it. While I only do it sometimes, being able to go Zenmaioh with her wins games. She has uses, they're just not the best in a lot of cases. But with, say, Star Seraphs, she's a wonderful option for the fact she gives them more bosses.

 

Infinity gives 1 terrible deck and Chronomaly a boss. Why does a terrible deck like CyDra or a sleeper deck like Chronomaly deserve?

 

Cyber Dragons are terrible with or without this card, and Chronomaly have potential without it, so why does this deserve to exist? Ptolemaus offers more to the game than this ever will, and isn't even at fault for this thing existing. Might harm the game in the long run, but Infinity harms it constantly.

[CLG Klavier]

I didn't read all this, so apologies if I'm covering somethign that already happened.
 
Lest you forget, Chronomal still exist. While not the strongest deck, the OCG Meta is a mixture of this and Atlantean, iirc. And Chronomaly make this on the cheap.
 
It's not 'dedication', it makes cards like Galaxy Soldier absurd.
 
Ptolemaus has niche uses to sell it. While I only do it sometimes, being able to go Zenmaioh with her wins games. She has uses, they're just not the best in a lot of cases. But with, say, Star Seraphs, she's a wonderful option for the fact she gives them more bosses.
 
Infinity gives 1 terrible deck and Chronomaly a boss. Why does a terrible deck like CyDra or a sleeper deck like Chronomaly deserve?
 
Cyber Dragons are terrible with or without this card, and Chronomaly have potential without it, so why does this deserve to exist? Ptolemaus offers more to the game than this ever will, and isn't even at fault for this thing existing. Might harm the game in the long run, but Infinity harms it constantly.

While this might be right (I never said CyDra Infinity isn't stupid, in reality I did say that) but I still feel like Ptolemaeus is idiotic for the sole reason that strong, restrictive rank 5s can't really exist whiile he's free.

[Blake]

While this might be right (I never said CyDra Infinity isn't stupid, in reality I did say that) but I still feel like Ptolemaeus is idiotic for the sole reason that strong, restrictive rank 5s can't really exist whiile he's free.

The thing is, while that logic is partially correct, it's flawed.

 

Ptolemaus is only worth it for Zenmaioh, Digvhorzhak (pfft), or Nova/Infinity. Even 'restrictive' R5s like Pleiades don't benefit, overall. The one shot is not enough to run her over other 3-Mats, especially considering the ED space required.

 

Her crime is the limits/slope she puts on the future, not the active harm infinity adds.

 

Both shouldn't exist, but Cyber Dragon Infinity wasn't designed in a way to be played in just Cyber Dragons. He was designed openly, and this is his crime. He's an unfair boss that can be run pseudo-generically.

 

I won't deny Ptolemaus is an issue. In a vacuum, she's definitely the worse of the two.

 

But in an active format, she's the lesser evil of the two, because the game isn't exactly unkind to summoning Infinity, even without her.