Cyber Dragon Infinity is so fair. :(

[Slinky]

I'd like to point out another Ptolemaius issue. OCG-wise.

 

Although people aren't exactly utilizing it, because of "lolinfinity", Ptolemaius can also make Outer God Azathoth, which on summon locks out your opponents monster effects for the turn, which can usually also signify game, since that one turn of lockdown can be absolutely devastating. It's nowhere near as much of a problem as Infinity is, but it's also noteworthy due to the vast access of it through R4 decks, effectively making it a budget "Majesty's Fiend".

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Azazoth is only in korea, iirc

[Slinky]

That would explain why I haven't seen it.

Point is still valid though.

[ihop]

I mean if we're ignoring cards because they're Korean exclusives Infinity is a Japanese exclusive lol

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I mean if we're ignoring cards because they're Korean exclusives Infinity is a Japanese exclusive lol

Well, he was saying in ocg, which does not include KR exclusives

[BlackBeartic]

wut

 

Everything about that statement is wrong.

 

Firstlt, Ptolemaus is part of CROS' main set. This is part of its Japanese World Premieres. Meaning they appeared at the same time.

 

And Ptolemaus was revealed a few weeks before this thing's existence was known, beyond the rumor of a Chaos Xyz Change for Cydra Infinity.

 

Secondly, not all decks that R4 can run this. A good deal can, but not all of them by any means.

 

This card is the problem with Ptolemaus, not vice-versa. Considering that it's not like this is exclusively made with Ptolemaus (if you recall, Chronomaly can make this easy as piss), this is the issue. It gives Ptolemaus far too much power, but that's not her fault. She has a lot of fair interactions liek turning into a Zenmaioh. Are they generally good interactions? Nah, but they're definitely fair and fine.

 

This card's the abomination, if either.

 

Bruh

 

SHARKS can run this if you really tried. Let that sink in.

If something as specific as SHARKS that tend to go for either rank 4-5 WATER Xyzs (and most of the level 4 sharks have that "can only be used for water xyz monster" clause). The card's fucking stupid.

Also not directed at the guy i quoted but i hate people that say "hurrdurrthiscardain'tcheapcuzyouhave*insert card you won't ALWAYS have here*. If this gets made against you turn 1 you might as well scoop unless you have an answer in your opening hand.

Doesn't help when you throw backrow into the mix either.

[Timeskipper]

Both cards (Ptolemaios and Infinity) are a case of horribad design. Literally, they look like something a 12-year-old would make. Ptolemaios not having any restriction on what it can summon is plain stupid and whoever thought it up should try to play the game instead of making cards by launching darts at a board. Infinity is the combination of two of the most powerful boss monsters in the whole game, which should be enough even for a 12-year-old to understand why it's definitely not ok.
Infinity is stupidly easy to make in both non-competitive (I have hunders and another generic R4 spam deck) and competitive (Shittellarknights and Ign(oble)knights, I'm looking at you, you broken abominations) decks, has an effect that is too good and doesn't even fit in well with Cyber Dragons, who were supposed to be all about high attack power and aggressive playstyle. It would've been so f'ing easy to slap a clause on Ptolemaios that said something along the lines of "Special Summon only a Rank 5 Xyz monster that requires 2 Level 5 monsters to Summon, or a Rank 5 "tellarknight" Xyz monster" to prevent R4s from being able to play monsters that were supposed to be restricted to an archetype. It's like they're not even trying anymore. Hell, they could've even just put "The monster Special Summoned by this card's effect cannot be used for a Xyz Summon" or something like that.
 
Then again, everything Satellarknight is broken to hell and back and lazily designed. Personally, I hope to see Infinity banned, Ptolemaios errata'd and Cyber Dragons being given a real boss monster that fits their theme, as well as maybe a decent draw engine. But I don't have much faith in Konami, tbh.

I'd like to point out another Ptolemaius issue. OCG-wise.
 
Although people aren't exactly utilizing it, because of "lolinfinity", Ptolemaius can also make Outer God Azathoth, which on summon locks out your opponents monster effects for the turn, which can usually also signify game, since that one turn of lockdown can be absolutely devastating. It's nowhere near as much of a problem as Infinity is, but it's also noteworthy due to the vast access of it through R4 decks, effectively making it a budget "Majesty's Fiend".

You sure it's that devastating? Everyone and their mother is running Fiendish Chain in three copies right now. The only way Azathoth could really hurt you would be if you were playing Nekroz, your opponent had enough attack power to OTK you and you had an empty field because you were relying on Valkyrius to protect your sorry ass. Otherwise, I really don't see Azathoth being of any harm. Maybe BAs would be in a slight pinch - but then again: Karma Cut, Fire Lake of Brokenness and Phoenix Wind pretty much annihilate anything you can even think of doing before you even have the occasion to do it.

[Toffee.]

That image I made for Blind, I swear, is now like his new favorite image of the interwebz.
...
Not likely, but you know...

*ahem*

If your up against Cyber Dragons, you should always expect this card.
If your up against anything else, you shouldn't really worry too much.

Plus, Infinity is only really THAT gamebreaking(if you would consider it) if the opponent play it out of thin air.
Like if they were some dumbass who did Monk into Wolfbark and then made Infinity off that, sure, you might be concerned, but even then.

[Timeskipper]

That image I made for Blind, I swear, is now like his new favorite image of the interwebz.
...
Not likely, but you know...

*ahem*

If your up against Cyber Dragons, you should always expect this card.
If your up against anything else, you shouldn't really worry too much.

Plus, Infinity is only really THAT gamebreaking(if you would consider it) if the opponent play it out of thin air.
Like if they were some dumbass who did Monk into Wolfbark and then made Infinity off that, sure, you might be concerned, but even then.

Even without considering Shittellarknights and Ign(oble)knights, I can assure you that playing Infinity out of thin air is really, really easy. Just Goblindbergh --> Monk --> another monster (preferably Star Drawing) and I can bring out one really, really easily. Hell, Goblindbergh, Instant Fusion an another monster for me means free Infinity + Lavalval Chain, and it even becomes a +1 total if that second monster is Star Drawing (it would go like this: Goblin + other monster, overlay for Chain, chain eff --> dump Felis, Lightsworn Archer --> Felis self-summons --> Instant into Noden and PAM! Free Infinity. My deck does that consistently in almost every match when I don't need Abyss Dweller).

[Toffee.]

Even without considering Shittellarknights and Ign(oble)knights, I can assure you that playing Infinity out of thin air is really, really easy. Just Goblindbergh --> Monk --> another monster (preferably Star Drawing) and I can bring out one really, really easily. Hell, Goblindbergh, Instant Fusion an another monster for me means free Infinity + Lavalval Chain, and it even becomes a +1 total if that second monster is Star Drawing (it would go like this: Goblin + other monster, overlay for Chain, chain eff --> dump Felis, Lightsworn Archer --> Felis self-summons --> Instant into Noden and PAM! Free Infinity. My deck does that consistently in almost every match when I don't need Abyss Dweller).

Your missing the point.

What I'm getting at, is that not every deck is going to jump at the chance to play this card, right off the bat.
Sure, they can, but it's not always optimal.

[Timeskipper]

Your missing the point.

What I'm getting at, is that not every deck is going to jump at the chance to play this card, right off the bat.
Sure, they can, but it's not always optimal.

Well, Castel is not always optimal. That doesn't mean that anyone that has at least two level 4 monsters in their deck doesn't run it. Maybe they won't always go for Infinity (I don't either, sometimes I can just win by using Lavalval Chain to synchro). This doesn't mean that they won't have access to a beefed-up 101 that also acts as a Quasar at the price of simply one more monster. With Hunders, for example, it's hard NOT to have at least 3 level 4 monsters on the field at the same time. Make your math...

[Blake]

Well, Castel is not always optimal. That doesn't mean that anyone that has at least two level 4 monsters in their deck doesn't run it. Maybe they won't always go for Infinity (I don't either, sometimes I can just win by using Lavalval Chain to synchro). This doesn't mean that they won't have access to a beefed-up 101 that also acts as a Quasar at the price of simply one more monster. With Hunders, for example, it's hard NOT to have at least 3 level 4 monsters on the field at the same time. Make your math...

the hunder example is terrible

 

the deck's terribly fragile and it specializes in 1-2 card Xyz.

 

Sure, AAA makes cheap 3-mats, but it's not common to devote more than 1 Ma/Pa at a time unlesss you're gong to make multiple 2-mats and/or you have recycling/CotH

 

Even then, the deck sucks

[Timeskipper]

I chose Hunders as an example for non-competitive decks. I doubt anyone here needs to be told that Shittellarknights spam rank 4s and, especially with Star Seraphs, they go mostly for 3-mats.

[SirReal]

I just thought of what Seraphs into this means...

 

So basically, you go typical Scepter into Sovereignity into ptolemaios is draw 3 pop one absorb another for a 2700 beatstick with a negation. Best/Worst of all, you went fucking plus off of that.

 

The only thing that semi-balances Infinity in Cybers is that you -1 to bring it out (not really if you manage to use Nova's revival effect) and even then it's debatable. The reason Quasar is so powerful is because it's hard to get out, because you have to base an entire deck around summoning it. 

[ihop]

You don't even need to minus one because you can just Machine Dupe. The deck's just a matter of whether you can machine dupe and win or not and probably lose.

[Toffee.]

Isn't, like, Machine Dupe in Cyber Dragons a bad idea?

[Blake]

Isn't, like, Machine Dupe in Cyber Dragons a bad idea?

how?

 

you target core with it and get 2 OG from the deck for free

[Timeskipper]

I just thought of what Seraphs into this means...

 

So basically, you go typical Scepter into Sovereignity into ptolemaios is draw 3 pop one absorb another for a 2700 beatstick with a negation. Best/Worst of all, you went f***ing plus off of that.

 

The only thing that semi-balances Infinity in Cybers is that you -1 to bring it out (not really if you manage to use Nova's revival effect) and even then it's debatable. The reason Quasar is so powerful is because it's hard to get out, because you have to base an entire deck around summoning it. 

 

Well, that's more due to Seraphs being designed by brainless apes, though.

[Toffee.]

Well, that's more due to Seraphs being designed by brainless apes, though.

This is why Konami needs to list an actual ruling on Seraphs.
Players either play them how they are written/intended, play them with that imaginary zone to plus off Scepter being an E-Tele for Sov, or know of that exact thing but still play it in the intended way to avoid conflict, etc.
I'm fine with any of them, but an actual ruling would basically put an end to debating the effects/etc, because it would be the final say and we would just live with it.

[ihop]

This is why Konami needs to list an actual ruling on Seraphs.
Players either play them how they are written/intended, play them with that imaginary zone to plus off Scepter being an E-Tele for Sov, or know of that exact thing but still play it in the intended way to avoid conflict, etc.
I'm fine with any of them, but an actual ruling would basically put an end to debating the effects/etc, because it would be the final say and we would just live with it.

 

I don't see the confusion here - both effects are triggered by the same event so if you have Stick and Chair you can choose the order of the chain, meaning you can activate Chair as chain link 1 and Stick as chain link 2 so you search before summoning, and the second searched chair is triggered by the first chair because it's in hand when it's summoned. Unless you're referring to some other questionable ruling this one is relatively clear.

[Timeskipper]

I don't see the confusion here - both effects are triggered by the same event so if you have Stick and Chair you can choose the order of the chain, meaning you can activate Chair as chain link 1 and Stick as chain link 2 so you search before summoning, and the second searched chair is triggered by the first chair because it's in hand when it's summoned. Unless you're referring to some other questionable ruling this one is relatively clear.

Seraphs are bad enough without the abuse of the chain mechanics for being effortless and mindless plussing, but this abuse is due to chain rules being made for something very different than this. They were intended to provide an easy and smooth guide for spell/trap interaction. This kind of situation could only be resolved by applying completely different rules or slapping a complicated clause on Sovereign. Or, y'know, never designing the damn chair in the first place because even without the chain abuse, it's idiotic design anyway.

[ihop]

It's less abuse of chain mechanics and more a reminder to put OPT clauses on cards.

[Timeskipper]

It's less abuse of chain mechanics and more a reminder to put OPT clauses on cards.

With OPT clauses Sovereign would've been a bit useless, tbh, because of the restriction. Though, a smart idea would've been to slap on Scepter a clause that said "You can't activate the effect of "Star Seraph" monsters for the rest of the turn if you activate this effect". This way, you have to choose between searching and summoning that turn. But that would require strategic thinking, and people just want to win, not to think.

[Slinky]

I don't see the confusion here - both effects are triggered by the same event so if you have Stick and Chair you can choose the order of the chain, meaning you can activate Chair as chain link 1 and Stick as chain link 2 so you search before summoning, and the second searched chair is triggered by the first chair because it's in hand when it's summoned. Unless you're referring to some other questionable ruling this one is relatively clear.

 

The confusion stems from the fact that the order of the chain link actually doesn't matter. Even if you set Scepter as CL1 instead of CL2, the searched Sovereignty will still assume the condition is met and will be able to trigger. Thanks to two things. 1) Hand is an unknown zone. and 2) Can't miss timing.

[raptor_blue]

But if you were to summon it naturally, by ranking up Cyber Dragon Nova, it would take some effort and deck dedication to pull off.

Not true at all. I run a straight-up Cyber Dragon deck (the only non-Machine Monster in the deck is Honest) on Dueling Network and I've easily gotten Cyber Dragon Infinity out by using Cyber Dragon Nova. How? All you need is two cards: Machine Duplication and Cyber Dragon Core.

 

Simply summon Cyber Dragon Core, activate Machine Duplication, you have an instant two Cyber Dragons. Use them to Xyz Summon Nova, then go straight into Cyber Dragon Infinity. Half the time, I do this and even if I end up with Power Bond plus enough fusion material to go into Cyber Twin/End Dragon or Chimeratech Fortress Dragon in hand/on the field, I don't need to as long as my Cyber Dragon Infinity stays on the field (unless I'm in a mood to OTK my opponent of course).

 

Point is, summong Cyber Dragon Infinity through Cyber Dragon Nova takes no effort at all if you play your cards right. Heck, I just got two Cyber Dragon Infinities out within less than ten turns using this strategy. Didn't even require Cyber Repair Plant or any other search cards.

 

Edit: And I know, the last reply was months ago, but when I saw someone say it takes a lot of effort to go rank Nova up into Infinity, I couldn't help but reply about how that's not true at all.