Dragon Ball Super

[Fusion X. Denver]

[spoiler=Episode 24]

Well, that didn't really compare to the "normal form" fight in the movie. Though I like the fact that Frieza tried using Goku's friends against him whereas they were solely spectators in the movie.

So Goku achieved Super Saiyan Blue through sheer willpower off-screen? Of course he did.

 

[asterr259]

Uub is the reincarnation of Kid Buu (original one/Pure Evil form of Majin), similar how Piccolo is reincarnation of King Piccolo (Pure Evil counterpart of original Namekian). Unlike with Kami and Piccolo, where one dies so does the other, The Fat Buu and Kid Buu aren't connected like that, probably due to being a different race and using fission differently, so it's not that weird to see him alive.

 

Goku asked King Yemma for Kid Buu to be reincarnated, so he wouldn't cause trouble in Hell. Presumably, Goku asked for Kid Buu to be reincarnated on Earth, so one day he could fight with him, which he does at the end of Dragon Ball Z, but sadly he's not as strong as his incarnation, which is why Goku took Uub to train him. I'm curious to see how this will work in Dragon Ball Super. I heard they will do an arc that takes place after DBZ, which might replace Dragon Ball GT's continuity.

I thought this was common knowledge but yeah.

 

Uub was born almost immediately, or at the very least, in the same year as Kid Buu's death. He was 10 years old at the end of Z, since we're currently on the Frieza/Sixth Universe Saga, that would make him currently 5 or 6. I don't hate GT as much as other fans, but I do expect them to replace its continuity tbph. DBGT is 5 years after Z, which still gives them 10 years to currently fill in with Super, but even so GT will probably be just alternate timeline w/o Beerus coming to earth, similar to the Future Trunks Timeline.

[Jake the Sage]

 

So new chapter has arrived.

 

Discuss the 6^th Universe's fighters.

[asterr259]

Not much to discuss other than Froze is actually canon, and some dude with big nipples is stronger than Goku. I desperately wanna say that's not his final form, but it really looks like Toriyama is going for some type of "less is more" BS or something so I doubt he transforms. Also if we got hope for Froze, then there is hope for Broly. At least that's what I thought, but all we got is some twerp named Cabba.

[Fusion X. Denver]

[spoiler=Chapter 7]

Huh, they restored the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Curious how that happened, since there wasn't enough time to use the dragon balls to make that happen. And I thought the room was supposed to close off forever after one person spent 48 hours in there, though it does say it's a "new" chamber, so maybe someone made a new chamber without that rule.

I hope they at least explain later how they made this new chamber. 

 

I like the looks of the Universe 6 warriors. They're interesting and weird to me and that's what Toriyama excels at.

If I had to guess the match-ups:

Goku vs Frieza Guy

Vegeta vs Short Saiyan Guy

Piccolo vs Purple Guy

Fat Buu vs Fat Bear

Monaka vs Robot Guy

 

 

[Beyonder]

Dragon Ball Super is just.......inconsistent......

[Slinky]

Dragonball is one of those animes you don't watch for the plot, but for the amazing fight scenes anyway.

[Fusion X. Denver]

[spoiler=So we're up to a new arc now (Ep 33)]

And so far I'm pretty intrigued! I like that Goku actually lost...somehow. I think Frost may have hypnotized him somehow to fall asleep, but I'm not positive. But what I'm liking so far (and hoping will continue) is that the fighters have different abilities to them, and not just being differently named and colored beam attacks.

Stuff like Potamo not taking damage or Frost putting people to sleep, that brings a variety to DBZ enemies that we haven't seen in a while. Buu was radically different, but the only real difference I'd put between Frieza and Cell is that Cell can regenerate. And some Androids absorbed energy, but that's really it.

Judging by the next episode preview, it looks like Piccolo will be using abilities he'd forgotten since early DBZ like making clones. That's kickass, and I hope Piccolo vs Frost will be a fun time.

 

The way Goku beat Potamo was pretty hilarious too. Though I think it was funnier in the manga.

 

[Neutrality Man]

[spoiler=So we're up to a new arc now (Ep 33)]

And so far I'm pretty intrigued! I like that Goku actually lost...somehow. I think Frost may have hypnotized him somehow to fall asleep, but I'm not positive. But what I'm liking so far (and hoping will continue) is that the fighters have different abilities to them, and not just being differently named and colored beam attacks.

Stuff like Potamo not taking damage or Frost putting people to sleep, that brings a variety to DBZ enemies that we haven't seen in a while. Buu was radically different, but the only real difference I'd put between Frieza and Cell is that Cell can regenerate. And some Androids absorbed energy, but that's really it.

Judging by the next episode preview, it looks like Piccolo will be using abilities he'd forgotten since early DBZ like making clones. That's kickass, and I hope Piccolo vs Frost will be a fun time.

 

The way Goku beat Potamo was pretty hilarious too. Though I think it was funnier in the manga.

 

[spoiler=Response]

Actually, knowledge of martial arts techniques let me spot exactly what happened with Goku vs Frost.

 

Pressure Points.

 

Frost was so outclassed in raw force he had to resort to these subtle targets to knock Goku out... and even that only worked well enough to make him dizzy and susceptible to Ring-Out. Frost looked as if knew what was going on when Goku started fading, and looked shocked when he finally won with the ring-out. That stare just screamed "How the funk was he even standing that long?!"

 

 

[Neutrality Man]

[spoiler=Response]

Actually, knowledge of martial arts techniques let me spot exactly what happened with Goku vs Frost.

 

Pressure Points.

 

Frost was so outclassed in raw force he had to resort to these subtle targets to knock Goku out... and even that only worked well enough to make him dizzy and susceptible to Ring-Out. Frost looked as if knew what was going on when Goku started fading, and looked shocked when he finally won with the ring-out. That stare just screamed "How the f*** was he even standing that long?!"

 

 

[spoiler=I'll be the first to admit it.]

I was wrong. Frost cheated with poison needles in his Final Form's 'gauntlets'.

 

 

[Fusion X. Denver]

[spoiler=I'll be the first to admit it.]

I was wrong. Frost cheated with poison needles in his Final Form's 'gauntlets'.

 

 

I was bummed, I liked the idea of there being a Good Frieza character, but that's a bust.

I'm not really satisfied with how this match ended. I would either have had Piccolo win, or have him go later in the tournament order if they really wanted to do the Vegeta-Frost thing. I feel like Piccolo got gipped from this arc, unless he does other stuff later.

[Neutrality Man]

I was bummed, I liked the idea of there being a Good Frieza character, but that's a bust.

I'm not really satisfied with how this match ended. I would either have had Piccolo win, or have him go later in the tournament order if they really wanted to do the Vegeta-Frost thing. I feel like Piccolo got gipped from this arc, unless he does other stuff later.

Agreed, so much wasted potential for Big Green from what I saw in that fight.

 

[spoiler=Piccolo showed the following skills he's never shown before:]

1. Charging the Makkankosappo long enough to block his face with the powerball.
2. Moving while charging the Makkankosappo.
3. Tajuu Kage Bunshin no Jutsu (the normal multiform tech is more sturdy than those)
4. The Makkankosappo he fired at the end managed to outdo Champa and pierce Vados' barrier.

[Fusion X. Denver]

I just really hope Goku and Vegeta aren't the only Z Fighters to get to do stuff in Super. 

In other news, the 1st volume's out in Japan.

[Jake the Sage]

How has no one added anything in so long!?

[asterr259]

Not sure. I just thought I was one of the couple people who's still been watching. So i'll just put down my overall thoughts so far.

 

[spoiler=State of Dragon Ball]So far the Future Trunks Arc has been the most interesting of Super, but not the most original of the Franchise. Seems like they're reusing and leaning on a lot of what made Dragon Ball great. Frieza, the Android Cell saga, tournaments, etc. But on the plus side, they're doing a nice job expanding the universe (literally and figuratively). I enjoyed learning about the Supreme Kais and time rings, and the other universes.

 

As for the current saga itself, it kind of bugs me how they're constantly going back and forth between the timelines in a trial and error sort of style. I think they should come up with several plans to defeat Zamasu and Black. Hopefully this will be the last time they go back and they just conclude this already. Obvious padding is obvious.

 

I brought this up to my friends and on my DA but one thing to take note of is that supposedly after this arc, Goku is suppose to "disappear" for 5 years according to canon timeline (Maybe he trains, maybe he dies, maybe the King of All takes him somewhere?). This will probably result in a time skip (seeing as how they rarely focus on the events of anyone other than Goku, and even then, still takes short cuts) and then we'll finally be at the end of Dragon Ball Z with the World Tournament and Goku training Uub. Also Bulma should be pregnant with Bulla, or she should already be born seeing as how she and Pan are supposed to be around the same age.

 

Tick tock Toriyama, you wanted to squeeze years of content in between all these time skips, well keep up.

 

[Fusion X. Denver]

Not sure. I just thought I was one of the couple people who's still been watching. So i'll just put down my overall thoughts so far.

 

[spoiler=State of Dragon Ball]So far the Future Trunks Arc has been the most interesting of Super, but not the most original of the Franchise. Seems like they're reusing and leaning on a lot of what made Dragon Ball great. Frieza, the Android Cell saga, tournaments, etc. But on the plus side, they're doing a nice job expanding the universe (literally and figuratively). I enjoyed learning about the Supreme Kais and time rings, and the other universes.

 

As for the current saga itself, it kind of bugs me how they're constantly going back and forth between the timelines in a trial and error sort of style. I think they should come up with several plans to defeat Zamasu and Black. Hopefully this will be the last time they go back and they just conclude this already. Obvious padding is obvious.

 

I brought this up to my friends and on my DA but one thing to take note of is that supposedly after this arc, Goku is suppose to "disappear" for 5 years according to canon timeline (Maybe he trains, maybe he dies, maybe the King of All takes him somewhere?). This will probably result in a time skip (seeing as how they rarely focus on the events of anyone other than Goku, and even then, still takes short cuts) and then we'll finally be at the end of Dragon Ball Z with the World Tournament and Goku training Uub. Also Bulma should be pregnant with Bulla, or she should already be born seeing as how she and Pan are supposed to be around the same age.

 

Tick tock Toriyama, you wanted to squeeze years of content in between all these time skips, well keep up.

 

[spoiler=Regarding what you said on DA]

DB Super has already directly contrasted the canon from DBZ's ending, so I don't think we'll see Goku disappearing again. Or at least, it shouldn't be the expectation. Pan wasn't supposed to be born until a few years later but Super had her born just a year after Buu. So Pan will be 9-10 by the time Z's end comes around rather than 4 as it was originally written.

A lot of other things have been changed too. Hyperbolic Time Chamber was restored without a time limit, Shenron can grant three wishes now instead of two, Goku can use the Mafuba without sacrificing his life, Supreme Kai knowing teleportation instead of Kibito, list goes on. A little annoying, but I also feel like the major concern should be the overall plot and action going forward rather than sweating over small details.

 

I like Super. Doesn't totally live up to my original expectations (looking at everyone besides Goku and Vegeta getting the shaft), but it's still a lot of fun and there are plenty of fun interactions going on. This latest arc has been pretty good; I'm hoping we see some fusion happening soon. Either a return to Vegito or making Gogeta "officially" canon.

[asterr259]

DB Super has already directly contrasted the canon from DBZ's ending, so I don't think we'll see Goku disappearing again. Or at least, it shouldn't be the expectation. Pan wasn't supposed to be born until a few years later but Super had her born just a year after Buu. So Pan will be 9-10 by the time Z's end comes around rather than 4 as it was originally written.

 

I like Super. Doesn't totally live up to my original expectations (looking at everyone besides Goku and Vegeta getting the shaft), but it's still a lot of fun and there are plenty of fun interactions going on. This latest arc has been pretty good; I'm hoping we see some fusion happening soon. Either a return to Vegito or making Gogeta "officially" canon.

 

While there are things that are vastly different, Z's ending was pretty vague and they did a pretty good job not to step on it's toes. So I wouldn't say it contrasts that much actually. None of the changes they've made effect the ending. I'm also going to help smooth out the timeline as Super has done pretty good, so far, staying in the lines.

 

[spoiler= The Timeline]

774: Evil Buu is released, defeated, and reborn as Uub.

776: Tarble shows up. But that's up for debate if he's canon. Not only did Toriyama acknowledge his existence in the BoG movie (which was canon before Super), but he designed wrote the character himself for "Yo! Son Goku and friends return!". So take from this what you will.

778: Battle of Gods Saga

779: Pan is Born here, so it's still correct though she was 5 in Z. Ressurection F Saga.

780: The current Future Trunks Saga.

 

Everything after here hasn't happened yet in Super, but is suppose to.

---------------------------

780: It is also here when Bulla is born.

784: End of Z. Goku trains Uub.

784: Genuine New Content that's free to do whatever it wants.

 

Looking into it more and doing more research, I said Goku would die or run off training or something but he simply doesn't keep in contact with anyone (Vegeta's Family). I still think this means a Time Skip because having not seen Vegeta and Bulma in 4 to 5 years would obviously mean the world wasn't in danger for at least that long. After the F-Trunks Saga is probably when they'll go into Z.

 

 

 

I only care because when they've stayed in the lines this far, it's hard not to notice what they mess up with Z's canon if they do. Also because they CHOSE the 10 year gap to start adding content instead of picking up from Z's end.

Super's only "crime" is the fact that there was suppose to be "10 years of peace" after Buu, but that could have been a dubbing error or something the Dub just added in. I'm pretty sure none of us here watched DBZ subbed to confirm this or not. All that aside, I am enjoying Super when i'm not checking for potential plot holes. [spoiler=speaking off] They confirmed in Dragon Ball that you can use Mafuba without dying with enough training (Tien can also use it), even though Goku didn't know what he was doing so I can still see your gripe.

 

 

Also I'm pretty sure they will go into Fusion. With Gowasu and Supreme Kai there, they have a pair of Potara's to use. If they go Vegito, they can wish them separate, or ask Buu to do something maybe? But Gogeta seems more ideal imo.

[Fusion X. Denver]

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Who_Will_the_100_Million_Zeni_Peace_Reward_Go_To…%3F!

Six months after the defeat of Kid Buu,

They moved the timeline up for whatever reason. Maybe to give them more room to work with, it gives them an extra five years for storytelling instead of just five.

 

The Tarble situation is weird too. That OVA was two years after Buu's defeat, but the general public knew who Buu was despite Shenron erasing their memories. Gohan and Videl weren't married then either, but should be married according to Super's timeline.

It seems like Dragon Ball isn't too fussed about maintaining continuity. A new interest behind DBZ's writing is cherry picking the good parts from other branches of the canon (movies, OVAs, whatever) and dismissing contrasting details for convenience's sake.

 

If I had to pick, I'd say they should fuse into Gogeta here. But something's telling me they'll turn into Vegito. I'd be down for either really. 

[asterr259]

Really? No one. I know someone saw it. We gonna sit here act like we ain't see some hot garbage the other day?

 

Timeline aside, because who knows what the writers are doing at this point anymore... *sigh* I'm all debated out over the last episode. I'm really mad at the Potara thing and the many ways it could've been completely avoided. No matter how I look at it, it was a straight retcon and a bad one. They could've used Gogeta but instead chose to sell Hype tickets aboard the Vegito train. There so many better options instead of what they did, it's cringe how many I, and others, can think of instead of the writers themselves.

 

But there's no denying the fight scenes were hype tho. And imo the Fusion thing just overshadows the Trunks thing. He deserved the kill, so I don't care.

[The Warden]

It was satisfying to see Zamasu finally get his self-entitled ass get kicked so thoroughly that he was mentally (and physically) breaking down. And it was amusingly hypocritical of him to tell Vegito to "stop being pretentious".

 

I was also listening to MasakoX's thoughts on the ep, and after re-watching it, I kinda see his point a little.

[Fusion X. Denver]

Really? No one. I know someone saw it. We gonna sit here act like we ain't see some hot garbage the other day?

 

Timeline aside, because who knows what the writers are doing at this point anymore... *sigh* I'm all debated out over the last episode. I'm really mad at the Potara thing and the many ways it could've been completely avoided. No matter how I look at it, it was a straight retcon and a bad one. They could've used Gogeta but instead chose to sell Hype tickets aboard the Vegito train. There so many better options instead of what they did, it's cringe how many I, and others, can think of instead of the writers themselves.

 

But there's no denying the fight scenes were hype tho. And imo the Fusion thing just overshadows the Trunks thing. He deserved the kill, so I don't care.

Actually, turns out I was wrong about the timeline thing. I asked Masako about it in one of his videos, Super does indeed take place 4 years later. So my bad.

 

I'm fine with how the episode went honestly. We saw some sickass fight scenes from Vegito, which was all I wanted, and we got a cool wrap-up with Trunks. I don't know why people are getting miffed when one of the biggest complaints about a sequel series was wanting characters besides Goku and Vegeta doing sheet. But on the other hand, I do think Toei should not have sold the episode with just Vegito scenes in the preview; it set up expectations that apparently a lot of people felt betrayed on. 

 

I'd say Zamasu was a decent villain. Since the show's more heavily concerned with gods, they did a cool idea with a rogue god who also was actually smart enough to start sheet after gathering the dragon balls and also actually gained immortality. Although his downfall could have been avoided if he used the namekian dragon balls to give Goku Black immortality too. 

[The Warden]

They didn't think to make Goku Black immortal because he was stupidly strong that it would be impossible for him to die in battle, and I doubt they had even planned on fusing at all. It was a last resort because immortal Zamasu was scared shitless by the Mafuba. That was still a great scene of him screaming for dear life i might add.

[asterr259]

The Potara thing just really ticked me off because it was a bad retcon. Retcons can be good and beneficial to a series, like Goku being an alien rather than a plain monkey boy. It gave the series more room to expand. Everything would've just been better if they just used the Fusion Dance imo. Goku could've taken the time to teach Vegeta in secret(spoiler-free) vs Goku learning the Mafuba. Sure people would've been like "Oh, well, Supreme Kai and Gowasu were there, they could've made Vegito", but even I knew they were purely there as a supply of earrings; they didn't have to be there in the first place. Or if they just HAD to use Vegito for hype and nostalgia, Gowasu could've said he knew a technique that separates mortals that use the potara so they wouldn't have to be stuck like that. Or another set of Dragon Balls.

 

Sorry, this just really irks me. All-in-all, it was a great arc with a great villain. I agree that bringing in an evil Supreme Kai was a interesting idea. If I had to say something about the arc, aside from my aforementioned problems, it is that I hope that they won't use another Evil Goku-like character again, or create anyone that looks like Goku anymore. It's getting old. The way it was used here did add a sense of mystery that pulled in more fans who were still on the fence about Super, but I hope it's the last time.

I think people are mad about Trunks because they used him over Vegito to get the kill. Yeah they want more useful characters, but when you use a popular character (supposedly, or originally, the most powerful in the series) like that only to be shafted for BS reasons and then one-upped by a character that seemingly pulls a Deus-Ex, it only seems natural for the majority be mad. I'm perfectly fine with it, but hopefully some things will be answered next episode.

[Fusion X. Denver]

I'm psyched for the Universe Survival Arc.

[spoiler=Just look at this promo image]

 

 

I feel bad that Yamcha's left out since I believe he's still stronger than Roshi, but I think this arc's going to be an absolute blast. Psyched to see Gohan and 17 in particular.

[Jake the Sage]

I feel bad that Yamcha's left out since I believe he's still stronger than Roshi, but I think this arc's going to be an absolute blast. Psyched to see Gohan and 17 in particular.

 

Stronger, maybe, but I think when it comes down to the four- Yamcha, Master Roshi, Tien, and Chaotzu- that Master Roshi is still probably the most skilled out of them. After all they're the weakest and, let's face it, only Master Roshi has remained ready to fight.

 

Or maybe Master Roshi just has some techniques that no one else can use or just fills a specific role they need perfectly.