Card Destruction

[Sleepy]

 

Normal Spell Card

Each player discards their entire hand, then draws the same number of cards they discarded.

 

 

 

 

So I heard here at some thread that in OCG Infernoids have this and is one of those cards keeping them relevant, along with Monster Gate and Reasoning. This card was banned in the TCG at a time when Dark Worlds considered it pretty much a win condition. Nowadays there are no Dark Worlds to be seen on the radar, and just this morning I read a thread talking about how Infernoids in TCG just can't be competitively viable enough with what we have.

 

It has been a couple of years if memory serves me right since this card was banned, so I'll ask this:
Do you think this card would still wreak havoc if it came back to 1 in TCG?

Even if it didn't end up being competitively relevant, would you still argue this shouldn't come back?
 

It getting an errata is out of the question. The cards that have had erratas to get unbanned seem to be cards that were otherwise non-unbannable in both OCG and TCG formats, and this card exists in TCG just like Stratos, we can probably assume it'd be a no no.

 

 

Anyways, discuss.

 

[Blake]

Fuck NO.

 

First off, it wasn't bannedb because of just Dark World. The TCG list hit it when the split happened because it was what the players wanted, same for hits like Stratos.

 

This thing also saw play in early Shaddoll, though I dunno if it still does.

 

It's not a card that adds anythign healthy to the game, only the ability to destroy setup for future plays and speeds yourself up way too much in the right decks... like Infernoid.

[AnnieShifter]

In all honesty, the card just screams abuse and overpowered. The card was banned because of Dragon Rulers I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), and although they're dead, decks like Burning Abyss can plus immensely from it. I prefer that it stay banned .

[Maeriberii Haan]

It still does see play in Dolls until they get killed by the list in OCG.

 

It's just too abusive to be around tbh.

[玄魔の王]

I think the incoming Multiple Destruction should tell you this is not coming back any time soon.

[Sleepy]

In all honesty, the card just screams abuse and overpowered. The card was banned because of Dragon Rulers I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), and although they're dead, decks like Burning Abyss can plus immensely from it. I prefer that it stay banned .

 

To be fair, the card was banned at a time where it wasn't just one deck that could take advantage of it. From how Yugioh in general has operated for a long time during previous generations, getting things in the Graveyard is just really useful for a ton of cards.

Dark Worlds were the first things to come to mind, but you could also go Fableds, Dragon Rulers, Zombies, Infernoids, Shadolls, etc. You can just drop specific cards that are easily searchable to get consistently on your hand individually even if the deck itself didn't straight up benefit from discarding like Necro Gardna/Shield Warrior/Tazuke Knight after we have our 3 RotAs, random Level Eaters/Glow-ups/Dandy in Synchro decks, etc.

 

The card is as potent as ever, but with a different game-state nowadays, the card gone for a while, and the OCG having it (even though the formats have some glaring differences), I got curious to see what the general idea would be.

I think the incoming Multiple Destruction.

 

Which one?
 

[Expelsword]

I'll take a +9 or more for free, sure.

 

Discarding cards is only good these days, which means both halves of this card are fantastic, which means the card is too good to ever come back.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It is my honest opinion that with all the cards TCG has removed from the game this card really doesn't do much. Yes it helps infernoids. Yes it helps DW. No Shaddolls did not really run it due it being terrible in the mirror. CD's saving grace is that quite often it helps the opponent out quite a bit....like can you imagine card des-ing clown dolls

[AnnieShifter]

It is my honest opinion that with all the cards TCG has removed from the game this card really doesn't do much. Yes it helps infernoids. Yes it helps DW. No Shaddolls did not really run it due it being terrible in the mirror. CD's saving grace is that quite often it helps the opponent out quite a bit....like can you imagine card des-ing clown dolls

You also have to take into account that we also have Burning Abyss which on their own profit immensely from this one card.

[Blake]

It is my honest opinion that with all the cards TCG has removed from the game this card really doesn't do much. Yes it helps infernoids. Yes it helps DW. No Shaddolls did not really run it due it being terrible in the mirror. CD's saving grace is that quite often it helps the opponent out quite a bit....like can you imagine card des-ing clown dolls

With the exception of Dragon/Squa at times, I don't think it's that bad.

 

I'd rather force the dolls to be used up immediately, considering that using dolls outside of a certain time can be bad, than let them stay around as resources. Once they're used up, they're gone, and if they have multiples you get more value. TCG doesn't have PoA and JoA is too slow, so getting rid of Dolls can be better than not.

 

As for clowns, hitting tricklown means being able to deal with it on the spot 9/10 instead of letting them use it in their time. Hitting Damajuggler would be a little worse, but still not terrible 9/10. Sure, they get a plus, but if you're getting a plus you shouldn't care.

 

Being scared of hitting the opp's dolls/clowns seems silly.

 

Against anything else, you're likely to disrupt buildup/held staples, and that seems more likely to win you the game than the off chance of dolls getting to abuse your card will cost you.

 

DW are a real concern to hit, but certainly not Dolls. Maybe it's just player mentality by region, but much like Kuribandit doesn't use dolls efficiently enough without PoA and can hit multiples, I don't think hitting the opp's dolls/clowns is actually an awful thing in the majority of cases.

 

Same goes for BA, overall, as yo ucan just force the fuck out of effects and reduce their advantage quicker, even if they plus. Much more real than the idea of fearing dolls, though.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

With the exception of Dragon/Squa at times, I don't think it's that bad.

 

I'd rather force the dolls to be used up immediately, considering that using dolls outside of a certain time can be bad, than let them stay around as resources. Once they're used up, they're gone, and if they have multiples you get more value. TCG doesn't have PoA and JoA is too slow, so getting rid of Dolls can be better than not.

 

As for clowns, hitting tricklown means being able to deal with it on the spot 9/10 instead of letting them use it in their time. Hitting Damajuggler would be a little worse, but still not terrible 9/10. Sure, they get a plus, but if you're getting a plus you shouldn't care.

 

Being scared of hitting the opp's dolls/clowns seems silly.

 

Against anything else, you're likely to disrupt buildup/held staples, and that seems more likely to win you the game than the off chance of dolls getting to abuse your card will cost you.

 

DW are a real concern to hit, but certainly not Dolls. Maybe it's just player mentality by region, but much like Kuribandit doesn't use dolls efficiently enough without PoA and can hit multiples, I don't think hitting the opp's dolls/clowns is actually an awful thing in the majority of cases.

 

Same goes for BA, overall, as yo ucan just force the f*** out of effects and reduce their advantage quicker, even if they plus. Much more real than the idea of fearing dolls, though.

Another great example of format dependence then. Putting Dolls in grave is meaningless since you can put them back with Avarice and put Avarice back with Jar, etc

 

Well Beast turns Destruction into a -2 for you. Falco is the only one that's meh when you send it cause you can run it over (assuming this is a MP1 Card Des). The rest tend to stack up, by giving them +'s esp since those are free +'s due to Avarice and Jar

 

OCG tends to care a lot about +1. Like people like to paint it as a "vomit 8k damage" format, but the +/- game is VERY crucial there. There is a reason why cards like Reborn that TCG considers Staple/Broken/Must Run are NOT run.

 

You do not want to give the opponent free +'s and let them dig through their deck for cards like Duster. That's not a good idea. Card Destruction saw play in Dolls against Qli's...people were even too afraid to use it against Heroes and Necloths back in the day.

 

You bring up a valuable point with staples. In OCG the fear of Duster is not as much as you would expect. So people tend to set 4 and stuff. Card Des is less likely to wipe out an opponents Torrential as let them draw into the next 2. 

 

Overall, cards that let your opponent dig their deck are not good....at all. DW are a non existent threat. The only reason to ever run Card Des is if your deck can use the grave as a second hand. So far only 2 decks fit that profile. Rulers and Infernoids. 

 

Want proof? Heroes only run 3, heroes now. Seeing that Stratos and Bubble get used up so quickly, you are most likely to make Mist hit the grave without effect. Necloths cant afford to mirror float after Cycle got limited. Qlis will die if you manage to get them to discard a scout....so why don't shaddolls that clearly need the thinning power post Bandit/Math/Arma limit run it? Cause as good as shaddolls float, they don't have the ability to use the grave as a second hand. BA I'm not sure. I haven't really played with them, but they take floating to a whole new level. Would not be surprised if OCG preemptively limited TGU to deal with em

 

You also have to take into account that we also have Burning Abyss which on their own profit immensely from this one card.

 

I'll openly admit, I don't know the impact this will have on BA. I can't imagine it having the benefit it does on Rulers or Infernoids, maybe OCG will ban it if BA breaks it

[AnnieShifter]

Another great example of format dependence then. Putting Dolls in grave is meaningless since you can put them back with Avarice and put Avarice back with Jar, etc

 

Well Beast turns Destruction into a -2 for you. Falco is the only one that's meh when you send it cause you can run it over (assuming this is a MP1 Card Des). The rest tend to stack up, by giving them +'s esp since those are free +'s due to Avarice and Jar

 

OCG tends to care a lot about +1. Like people like to paint it as a "vomit 8k damage" format, but the +/- game is VERY crucial there. There is a reason why cards like Reborn that TCG considers Staple/Broken/Must Run are NOT run.

 

You do not want to give the opponent free +'s and let them dig through their deck for cards like Duster. That's not a good idea. Card Destruction saw play in Dolls against Qli's...people were even too afraid to use it against Heroes and Necloths back in the day.

 

You bring up a valuable point with staples. In OCG the fear of Duster is not as much as you would expect. So people tend to set 4 and stuff. Card Des is less likely to wipe out an opponents Torrential as let them draw into the next 2. 

 

Overall, cards that let your opponent dig their deck are not good....at all. DW are a non existent threat. The only reason to ever run Card Des is if your deck can use the grave as a second hand. So far only 2 decks fit that profile. Rulers and Infernoids. 

 

Want proof? Heroes only run 3 heroes now. Necloths cant afford to mirror float. Qlis will die if you manage to get them to discard a scout....so why don't shaddolls that clearly need the thinning power post Bandit/Math/Arma limit run it? Cause as good as shaddolls float, they don't have the ability to use the grave as a second hand. BA I'm not sure. I haven't really played with them, but they take floating to a whole new level. Would not be surprised if OCG preemptively limited TGU to deal with em

Sadly Burning Abyss has fallen tremendously in popularity in our current format as its no longer considered fast enough to compete with tier 1 decks (Nekroz, Shaddoll, Qli, and Satellarknight). I do wonder how the deck will manage in the horror land that is the OCG. You seem to be very well versed in the OCG meta so you will probably understand how it will fair better than I would, but I do consider BA will be a fair contender for the OCG.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Sadly Burning Abyss has fallen tremendously in popularity in our current format as its no longer considered fast enough to compete with tier 1 decks (Nekroz, Shaddoll, Qli, and Satellarknight). I do wonder how the deck will manage in the horror land that is the OCG. You seem to be very well versed in the OCG meta so you will probably understand how it will fair better than I would, but I do consider BA will be a fair contender for the OCG.

Well Depends honestly if a deck can properly utilize Macro. I do think that  Macro Verz Rabbit will make a showing after this list. But Soul Drain and Maco are @3 and will likely remain such for a while to be. I have no doubts that BA will good in OCG, but I think the impact will be less than it was in TCG

 

Ritual Beast is also a contender. Also HFD is a card. I honestly see BA be used as an engine. Chaos is getting a lot of support and BA is a superior mill engine to LS. But if you are looking at Fire lake focused decks, you might be sadly miffed by what OCG will offer.