Meta List (July format edition!)

[Spinny]

Ok guys, wtf.

Can i please have a tl;dr of what list changes to do?

Also, ofcourse it's speculation, but it's mainly to raise awareness of the decks in the format, so please, instead of doubting the accuracy of it, help it instead.

[ihop]

My list^

[VCR_CAT]

I think I said this last time but I still disagree with this nominal points value assigned to different tops. For starters, Ritual Beasts went way deeper in their class 3 tops than almost any other deck did (4 out of the 5 made it to top 8), and anyway I'd consider a class 3 top to be weighted substantially higher than anything else because it takes way more than 3x the amount of effort to top a class 3 even than it does a class 1 event (or even a class 2 event, I'd say). 

 

The definition of "tops" is weighed equally for each deck and it appears to be a lot stricter than simply "3 decks showed up in the top of this". That "5" there isn't how many points they got for class 3 tops; that's how many class 3 tops they actually got; which in this case appears to be the NAWCQ and one other tournament. The only tier 2 deck that has less Class 3 tops is Satellars but only 1, and even then look at that, they've got over 11x as many class 2 tops as Ritual Beasts. You'd have to up the point values to ridiculous levels to get Ritual Beasts into the place you want them to, and at that point I question if you're doing that to make an accurate tier list, or if you simply just want Ritual Beasts to be higher.

 

But, I did the math anyways and reshuffled the point values and made it more exponential. I made Class 1 worth 1 still, Class 2 is worth 3, Class 3 is worth 6, and Class 3 wins are worth 7.

http://puu.sh/j7u61/1b0f8b1cd4.png

As you can see, there wasn't much of a change at all. The gap between Shaddolls and Qliphorts was closed in, and the gap between Satellarknights and Ritual Beasts more-or-less stayed the same. Making the point values any bigger is going to greatly skew the results to the point of inaccuracy IMO, and after doing this math I'm starting see why the point values given are 1, 2, and 3. It's because 3 tops in a WCQ isn't enough to warrant making a deck tier 2 when the next deck has 11x more class 2 tops; you're ignore so much just because of one tournament, and because no new cards have been released since CROS (the start of that document) and no banlist was released; it's not wise to just ignore the other tournaments in that sub-format since nothing has changed since that WCQ and the other tournaments.

 

Even changing the value of class 2 to just 2 points http://puu.sh/j7uGh/877256d5ef.pngstill only shows Qliphorts and Shaddolls changing places; but Shaddolls still won a class 3 tournament over Qliphorts, so I'd actually put them above Qliphorts in that list; which starts to show inaccuracy.

 

Yeah, Ritual Beasts got 3 tops in the WCQ, but their overall performance in that format, both in representation and in overall outcome, still makes them a tier 3 deck.

 

wordswordswords

 

A really cool experiment would to have a large tournament, like a big one, with each deck given equal representation and then see what happens. But anyways, do you know of any place that gives the total statistics of a given tournament? The results that are posted that I see are usually no more than the top 16 or top 32 of tournaments of hundreds of players; I don't know if your theory stands that Ritual Beasts don't top as much because they're under-represented or if because the other decks are actually better. I mean, it's kind of worth noting that if Ritual Beasts were truly consistently powerful, then we should see them in the Top-X results a lot more often, even if it's only one or two decks. Afterall, hype doesn't win duels in the end.

 

But yeah, results fluctuate a LOT. Like what we're doing now and discussing this new format's tier list; we could all just be dead wrong in every facet and then suddenly Mecha Phantom Beasts take tournaments by storm. This is the start of a new format, which is way too soon to start making anything definitive. None of us really know what's going to happen; my predictions are just based on how well a deck did last format and whether the banlist affected them directly, indirectly, or not at all.

 

 

If we ever wanted a truly accurate tier list, we'd need several of those experimental tournaments with a lot of players where every deck is equally represented with more-or-less equally skilled players (although that would be very difficult to do). You know, for the sake of science.

[Dog King]

imo blackwings for tier 1 because i play to win maybe 2 or 5 ycs's this year with them

[Spinny]

imo blackwings for tier 1 because i play to win maybe 2 or 5 ycs's this year with them

Don't spam on my threads, I try to keep them small.

[Zauls]

Don't spam on my threads, I try to keep them small.

 

Don't minimod on your own threads, try to keep them small.

[CLG Klavier]

Don't minimod on your own threads, try to keep them small.

ayy lmao

 

I mean I still don't get the point of this thread. Hard-listing things into tiers is impossible since as we see, everyone's opinion is different.

[VCR_CAT]

ayy lmao

 

I mean I still don't get the point of this thread. Hard-listing things into tiers is impossible since as we see, everyone's opinion is different.

Not to mention that this is a completely new format and all we can do is speculate

[Spinny]

Also, ofcourse it's speculation, but it's mainly to raise awareness of the decks in the format, so please, instead of doubting the accuracy of it, help it instead.

Guys.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Dropping in to remind you all to not spam here.

 

If there's nothing more to discuss, just let this thread die, or I'll lock it for you.

[- Minimania -]

Uhhh, guys

 

Igknights are around the corner

[Blake]

Uhhh, guys

 

Igknights are around the corner

so...?

 

they're a shitty pseudo-ftk deck which has to use toilet paper ass Eagle and Magnum until DOCS.

[OnSlaUghT]

Where would Yang Zing place in this? I assume Tier 3

[Spinny]

Where would Yang Zing place in this? I assume Tier 3

2-3 yeah

[Dog King]

Ritual beats for tier 2 imo

And volcanics are not tier 2

They were considered tier 3 last format when they had lavalval chain and now they dont

[Synchronized]

I may get some criticism for this but I don't think Towers Turbo should really be considered Tier 1.  The Deck's had some presence at big events, sure, but it's still not the most consistent Deck and is pretty easy to side against.  I think people kind of over-hype the Deck because of how strong Towers is, but there's plenty of outs to it.  I think pure Qliphorts with Wavering Eyes/L1T etc. is just a better way to play the Deck.  Again, just my two cents.

[King K. Azo]

I may get some criticism for this but I don't think Towers Turbo should really be considered Tier 1.  The Deck's had some presence at big events, sure, but it's still not the most consistent Deck and is pretty easy to side against.  I think people kind of over-hype the Deck because of how strong Towers is, but there's plenty of outs to it.  I think pure Qliphorts with Wavering Eyes/L1T etc. is just a better way to play the Deck.  Again, just my two cents.

 

Here's your change for that two cents. Prepare yourself, backlash will probably come.

[VCR_CAT]

No I agree. Towers Turbo was kind of a flash in the pan IMO. It won because it wasn't expected and not prepared for; because until it, good Qli players didn't run Towers because it was winmoar and not necessary. But if you want a reason other than the fact the deck will be expected now, it's that the deck is incredibly fragile. If you disrupt their Wavering Eyes combo with a stray S/T destruction or Ghost Ogre when they're planting one of their two Scouts, you've struck a very fatal blow against the deck. They're pitching one of their Scouts for another, and if you destroy the second that's it. No more Scouts and their deck is in deep, deep trouble.

 

Pure Qliphorts will be a better deck because it doesn't rely on a one-shot combo and has a better focus on versatility in how it plays (even though this is Qli I'm talking and "Versatility" isn't really in their vocabulary).

[Expelsword]

One thing I can appreciate about TT is that people will stop giving MST the silent treatment.

[ihop]

I may get some criticism for this but I don't think Towers Turbo should really be considered Tier 1.  The Deck's had some presence at big events, sure, but it's still not the most consistent Deck and is pretty easy to side against.  I think people kind of over-hype the Deck because of how strong Towers is, but there's plenty of outs to it.  I think pure Qliphorts with Wavering Eyes/L1T etc. is just a better way to play the Deck.  Again, just my two cents.

You might well be right, but it's hard to call until we have another major event where we see how people adapt to it. I do think a build with 7-8 traps or so is very strong though.

[Synchronized]

You might well be right, but it's hard to call until we have another major event where we see how people adapt to it. I do think a build with 7-8 traps or so is very strong though.

I think the strongest build is going to be one that combines the strongest elements of the two. Maybe playing just 1 Towers as a searchable option but not solely relying on it.

[ihop]

I think the strongest build is going to be one that combines the strongest elements of the two. Maybe playing just 1 Towers as a searchable option but not solely relying on it.

Yes, Wavering will probably make the 1 Towers worth it no matter what, and I do think L1T is such a good card that it will encourage people to play more traps.

[Spinny]

Qlis is a tier 1 deck this format. I put towers turbo next to it because the point of the list is to raise awareness of decks :p

[Dog King]

plz donate to my charity so i can raise awareness of the disease that is towers turbo

[Agro]

Yes, but what about Glad Beasts?