Sir Yamiegg Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monstersWhen this card is Synchro Summoned, you can Tribute this card, then target 1 card on the field; shuffle it into the Deck, then Special Summon this card. This effect cannot be negated. Once per turn, during your turn, you can target 1 face-up monster on the field; change it to face-down Defense Position. When a Synchro monster attacks or is attacked: Inflict 1000 damage to your opponent. Considering the Rank 4 pool, I think Synchros deserve something like this. A rep for full CnC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tojin Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 This looks pretty nice. Good effect (though I have to wonder what the point of tributing himself is) and good stats (3000 is a bit much IMO, maybe make it 2800). 9/10, would run 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Yamiegg Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 The point of Tributing is that is dodges floodgates like Plasma, Lose 1 Turn, Skill Drain, etc. Its stats, name, etc. are an homage to Castel. A rep also for anyone who can figure out who this card is referencing (it's obscure). Go on Castel's Trivia on the wiki page for a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 i'm pretty sure that since this has to be on the field to be tributed and in general activate the effect, it doesn't dodge anything that you're wanting it to. Named after this dude: Gilbert du Motier, marquis de Lafayette. it's a synchro form of castel. not much to say. it has similar draw backs and all that fun stuff to castel, except that in order to bounce something this has to leave the field. the no effects in response part is a nice boost though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Yamiegg Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Well that was quick. It does work against floodgates since it's a cost to Tribute, so it's off-field when it resolves. Drain/Lose 1 Turn only negate the effects of face-up monsters, so it can still resolve; that's also why Stardust Dragon works under these cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 but... it has to be on the field to be tributed.... if a card is summoned, it's on the field. that fact that it's in the grave/banished (d fissure or macros) when it's resolved, doesn't change the fact that it needs to hit the field and be able to activate it's effect (so drain might not work) on field. Lose 1 Turn ruling: "While the effect of "Lose 1 Turn" is being applied, the effects of Special Summoned monsters that are activated or applied on the field are negated during the turn they are Special Summoned." This activates on the field (because that's where card's go when Summoned), so it does not dodge Lose 1. regardless of where it goes at resolution, it's on the field when it activates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Yamiegg Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Huh. Well it still gets around Skill Drain... I have no idea how to change it so it gets around Lose 1 Turn. I didn't know it was ruled like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Lose 1 Turn ruling: "While the effect of "Lose 1 Turn" is being applied, the effects of Special Summoned monsters that are activated or applied on the field are negated during the turn they are Special Summoned." This activates on the field (because that's where card's go when Summoned), so it does not dodge Lose 1. regardless of where it goes at resolution, it's on the field when it activates. You know, it would help if you'd actually read the whole damn rulings page and not just quoting a tidbit of the ruling to justify your argument. The card in question would function the same way as Infernoid Attondel would work under Lose 1 Turn; it will resolve. If an "Infernoid Attondel" that was Special Summoned this turn Tributes itself to activate its own effect, the effect is not negated by "Lose 1 Turn" and it is applied normally. If "Infernoid Attondel" Tributes another monster to activate its own effect, the effect is negated by "Lose 1 Turn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 The balance on this card is absolutely ludicrous, and because this is Advanced and not Casual, I'm gonna say this: No. Way. Having one of the best methods of removal on a generic level 8 synchro that also dodges most floodgates and post-summon disruption (Bottomless, etc.) on top of preventing your opponent from chaining is way, way, way, way too much. To top it off, it has a really good ATK value, an OPT Book of Moon effect that activates during either player's turn, and a burn effect. If this were a joke card I would understand, but you've effectively made absolutely every level 8 synchro, including Ignister Prominence (who is already stupidly powerful), completely obsolete. Nothing in the Rank 4 pool even comes close to holding a candle to this thing. Cards need weaknesses written into them, and you need to make sure you're not making something do too much. If you want promote strategy and make the game more of a thinking man's game, you need to have these blatant weaknesses and downsides to actually give a player different options and actually think about what they're going to do. You also need to have those weaknesses to give the opponent an opportunity to interact. Combining both of those make for a very exciting game, and it promotes player interaction. There's no strategy involved in this card because you've made something that a player has no reason not to use; it's just WAY too good. You need to rethink what this card does, and please, PLEASE remove the inability for the opponent to in chain anything; that alone makes this card unbelievably busted; as well tone down how much this card does. Having the either-turn Book of Moon effect ALONE makes this card REALLY strong; but you've added the other effects on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare909 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Or change summoning conditions to be a bit more lenient, and I suggest this effect: "You can Tribute this card (on your field), target 1 monster on your opponent field and banish it. When your opponent Special Summons a monster that has same Type as the monster that was banished by this effect; you can Special Summon this card (from your Graveyard) to your field." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 You know, it would help if you'd actually read the whole damn rulings page and not just quoting a tidbit of the ruling to justify your argument. The card in question would function the same way as Infernoid Attondel would work under Lose 1 Turn; it will resolve. If an "Infernoid Attondel" that was Special Summoned this turn Tributes itself to activate its own effect, the effect is not negated by "Lose 1 Turn" and it is applied normally. If "Infernoid Attondel" Tributes another monster to activate its own effect, the effect is negated by "Lose 1 Turn".yeah... why exactly would that work? Lose 1 Turn says "Activate this card only if you currently control no Special Summoned monsters. During the turn a monster is Special Summoned, negate its effects. If an Effect Monster(s) is Special Summoned in Attack Position: Change it to Defense Position." So why would this or Atton get around it? it doesn't make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÆƵ– Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 yeah... why exactly would that work? Lose 1 Turn says "Activate this card only if you currently control no Special Summoned monsters. During the turn a monster is Special Summoned, negate its effects. If an Effect Monster(s) is Special Summoned in Attack Position: Change it to Defense Position." So why would this or Atton get around it? it doesn't make sensebecause in order for both of those to activate their effects, they need to tribute themselves as the cost. If a monster tributes itself as a cost, it is no longer face-up for loose 1/ drain to negate, since it resolves while the monster is in grave. OT: This card has it too good. Granted that lvl 8 isn't the highest used synchro (I think lvl 7 takes that), it's stats plus it's effect are a bit much. I would suggest cutting the ATK or ditch the book of moon-esque eff, and maybe lower the burn a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Yamiegg Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 You know, it would help if you'd actually read the whole damn rulings page and not just quoting a tidbit of the ruling to justify your argument. The card in question would function the same way as Infernoid Attondel would work under Lose 1 Turn; it will resolve. If an "Infernoid Attondel" that was Special Summoned this turn Tributes itself to activate its own effect, the effect is not negated by "Lose 1 Turn" and it is applied normally. If "Infernoid Attondel" Tributes another monster to activate its own effect, the effect is negated by "Lose 1 Turn".Thanks for clarification. Also, I know that this card power-creeps all the other Level 8s, but didn't Castel do the same thing to the Rank 4s? Either-turn Book of Moon effect isn't even that good against today's meta. Nekroz don't even care that much, they'll Trish your ass; Qlis will still resolve; Shaddolls will only get momentarily stunned by it. This card is incredibly easy for Burning Abyss to play around, given their multiple Traps and boards of floaters which this card can't hope to crack. And you're telling me that ensured 1-card spot removal is too good? Because that's all the first effect is. The best it can do is crack a board open for a turn, and sometimes it can't even do that; even Burning Abyss and Tellars are pretty resistant to it due to all the Traps. Anyway I have changes in mind, but I'd like to hear a few more opinions from people who play competitively, because I think VCR CAT is just overreacting. And plus, the Decks that would make this (Scraps, Dragunities, maybe Yang Zing) need something like this to compete. This is Advanced; the cards here are built for the metagame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and1dodger Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Eh man it's too good xDI would omit the "Your opponent cannot activate cards or effects in response to this cards activation". Not being able to respond to this with its ability to already dodge cards upon summon would be such pain. Alright let's look at its stats; It stands at 3K, generic lv 8, dodge cards upon summon and prevents cards from responding, a very nice Speed Spell 2 effect, and an ok burn damage effect . Mate I think this card would be the most powerful lv 8 generic Synchro in Yugioh. Maybe in another year when powercreep moves up again, a card like this would exists. Though I understand in today's meta, powerful effects are nessary to combact meta. Hmm, possible add a condition or restriction somewhere along one of the effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 No trust me, I'm not over-reacting, and I'm not kidding when I say that nothing in the Rank 4 pool holds a candle to this card. Castel is a pathetic worm in comparison. The only cards that this card can't hit are cards with target protection; so Leo, Yazi, and Majespecters. But, because it's "card" and not "monster", you can still hit the pendulum scales so it's not like Majespecters even have a good matchup against this guy. As I said; Prominence is already REALLY powerful, and this card goes above and beyond that card in every way; stats, summoning condition, main effect, and additional sub-effects. You're actually very close to have made one of the most powerful Synchro monsters period. So no. I stand by what I said; this card needs some very hefty and serious nerfs before the phrase "balance" gets anywhere near applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
宇佐見 蓮子@C94 Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Yes, it is too good. The problem is that, unlike Castel, this is completely uncounterable. Also, less interruptible since it dodges Fiendish. Heck, Castel is a lot worse than this in every way. Synchro 8 isn't exactly such a hard thing to make anyway, often requiring the same amount of resources as a Rank 4 in a dedicated build. Also, 3k in something like this is absolutely ludicrous. I didn't mention the fact that it somehow has OPT free Book Of Moon because, eh, it'd be me beating a dead horse at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Also, I know that this card power-creeps all the other Level 8s, but didn't Castel do the same thing to the Rank 4s? Either-turn Book of Moon effect isn't even that good against today's meta. Nekroz don't even care that much, they'll Trish your ass; Qlis will still resolve; Shaddolls will only get momentarily stunned by it. This card is incredibly easy for Burning Abyss to play around, given their multiple Traps and boards of floaters which this card can't hope to crack. And you're telling me that ensured 1-card spot removal is too good? Because that's all the first effect is. The problem with saying "a good card isn't good in this meta, so a card with its effect tacked on is fine" is that, after this meta, there will be another. Let's say BoM is really good in that meta, to the point where it's commonly ran in pretty much every Deck. Your point of "OPET BoM isn't good right now so it's fine" no longer stands. On top of it being an nigh-uncounterable Castel (which also can hit face-down cards where Castel was humble enough to only hit face-up ones), it would then give really good control over the board. Even in a "Nekroz Trish you anyways, nobody relevant cares" format like you suggest this is, BoM can still be a very useful card. You can BoM Nekroz's Ju so they can't R4 that turn. Dolls can't attack this with Construct (and in addition, this can beat Construct in battle with the BoM effect, but Sync8s already have a Construct out). By flipping any one of their monsters down, BAs die if they hit the field (unless Summoned by TGU) because face-down monsters can't be called BAs. They have a lot of backrow answers to this, but they still can't play until they use one. If they just happened to be unlucky enough to not have one, then, well, that doesn't sound really nice. That's just the BoM effect alone. The on-Summon nigh-uncounterable spin is also very good. Against Qlips, they lose their Scout and they might not be able to fix their Pendulum scales immediately. Against Dolls, you can take out a Fusion without them recovering one of their Fusion Spells. With BAs, you can do the same thing to Dante, or lay waste to one of their backrow. Against everything else, you still get a nigh-uncounterable spin against any card, which is still really good. You can spin a Trish, or a Valk, or anything really when you're against Nekroz. This card might have been close to ok if it was just the first effect (the floodgate dodging and Super Poly clause are pretty eww), though it'd make Scrap Dragon sad since it gets close to outclassing that card entirely. With this, Scrap Dragon is pretty much only good outside of Scraps for triggering floating off of your own lost card. If it was just the second effect, it would be too good just because it's a Limited card on a 3k body, no matter how bad you claim BoM to be right now. But instead, it's both of those on a Level 8 Synchro with 3k ATK that also slaps little burns down on the opponent for extra damage (this isn't too bad in itself, but the monster already has a high ATK and it feels like overkill when it has all the other stuff it has). Castel creeped R4s a bit, but it only did so much. #101, which Castel has pushed out of a lot of Decks, isn't even completely outclassed by it. Castel has 100 less ATK and can't use the absorbed monster as destruction protection. Also, Castel's spin effect is it's only effect. Well, not really, it has its own BoM effect, but it can't use both because of the Xyz Material costs. I'd like to see some better Sync8s too, but this does too much, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Yamiegg Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not going to nerf the first effect much, since the point of the card is that the spin is absolutely guaranteed. I will nerf everything else though. The Book of Moon effect is only in your turn, ATK is 2600, and 1st effect cannot be negated but can be responded to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 The first effect is the first thing that needs a massive nerf, though. To create an effect that can't be countered is neither good design nor is it healthy for the game. You're taking the wrong idea and keeping it, and ultimately it's making this card very poorly designed. Drop the prevention of letting your opponent chain and I'd say also drop the tribute-effect, because trying to make something that removes almost anything while dodging everything is honestly a very, very bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of the Abyss Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Tbh on summon spin is legendary status, Castel already does a lot of work himself, but this dodges everything and is uninterrupted. It also makes its summon almost unstoppable Counter Traps aside. Also note with Castel you have a choice of 2 effects, while this has them all in one. The random burn is also huge, and adds to the already overbearing field presence of this card. It's not as hard to summon either, Tricklown + Raiden being your best bet, and this would probably put Clownblade a little higher on the list since now they got a formidable power play to work with. Not really a fan of it. Good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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