[Written] Flippin Monsters

[Sleepy]

I'll draw the images for the cards but for the mean time......

Each member has a FLIP effect and a secondary effect to help them succeed in Flipping up.

 

 

Flippin Chaos Root

DARK [Plant/Flip/Effect] Level 2       900/1300

If this face-down card would be targeted by a card effect: You can flip it face-up, and if you do, negate that effect and destroy the card.

FLIP: Draw 1 card for each non-Token monster your opponent controls. You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

Flippin Pyramid of Peace

EARTH [Rock/Flip/Effect] Level 2      700/1500  

If this face-down card would be destroyed by a card effect: You can flip it face-up, and if you do, negate that effect and destroy the card.

FLIP: Change all Attack Position monsters your opponent controls to face-down Defense Position. You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

Flippin Ceremonial Pot

FIRE [Fiend/Flip/Effect] Level 2         800/1400

If this face-down card is targeted for an attack: You can flip it face-up, and if you do, negate the attack and destroy that monster.

FLIP: Your opponent must banish 1 card they control, then return it to the Graveyard. You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

Flippin Cloud Sponge

WATER [Fairy/Flip/Effect] Level 2       1000/1200

If this face-down card would be affected by a monster's effect: You can flip it face-up, and if you do, negate that effect and destroy the card.

FLIP: Gain 1500 LP. You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

Flippin Floating Lamp

WIND [Pyro/Flip/Effect] Level 2              600/1600

If this face-down card would be affected by a Spell Card's effect: You can flip it face-up, and if you do, negate that effect and destroy the card.

FLIP: Target 1 monster in any Graveyard: Special Summon it to your side of the field in face-down Defense Position. You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

Flippin Charm of Luck

LIGHT [Aqua/Flip/Effect] Level 2               500/1700

If this face-down card would be affected by a Trap Card's effect: You can flip it face-up, and if you do, negate that effect and destroy the card.

FLIP: Once this turn, when you activate an effect that would destroy a card(s): You can treat "destroy" as "banish". You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

Flippin Shadow of the Mountain
DARK [spellcaster/Pendulum/Effect] Level 2        400/1800            Scale 3

Pendulum Effect:

If you control a "Flippin" card in your other Pendulum Zone, you can have this card's Scale treated as 1. Monsters can be Pendulum Summoned in face-down Defense Position.

Monster Effect:

You can Tribute this card to target 1 face-up card your opponent controls; flip it face-down. You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

Flippin Rainbow Star

LIGHT [Dragon/Pendulum/Effect] Level 2        300/1900              Scale 3

Pendulum Effect:

If you control a "Flippin" card in your other Pendulum Zone, you can have this card's Scale treated as 1. During your opponent's turn, when your opponent activates an effect or declares an attack: You can Special Summon 1 "Flippin" monster from your hand in face-down Defense Position, and then, you can have it become the new target for your opponent's attack/effect (if any).

Monster Effect:

You can Tribute this card: Excavate cards from the top of your Deck until you reveal a "Flippin" monster; add it to your hand or Special Summon it in face-down Defense Position, and shuffle all other cards into the Deck. You can only activate this effect once per turn.

 

 

 

 

 

[Darj]

Interesting concept of "Flip Traps", so to speak. I can't say is the first time I see it, as I recently saw a card with a similar effect, but the concept is interesting nonetheless.

 

My main concern with some of the cards here is how they can enable multiple pluses, and could become unfair to a certain extent. For instance, Floating Lamp can potentially negate and destroy, let's say, a Raigeki for a +1, and then its Flip revival effect will activate, generating an additional +1 for you. Ceremonial Pot is on a similar page, first by blocking a monster's attack and destroying it, and removing a card your opponent controls afterwards.

 

Now, I'm not saying that multiple plusing effects are the bane of the game and should be avoided like a plague, but they should be handled carefully in my opinion, and I can't tell at the moment if they way these Flippin monsters do it is the right way to handle it. On the other hand, if these cards are intended to be competitive, considering the section you posted them, then the extra pluses are practically a necessity to stand against most of the meta, so I dare to say you can even get away with these effects.

[Sleepy]

Interesting concept of "Flip Traps", so to speak. I can't say is the first time I see it, as I recently saw a card with a similar effect, but the concept is interesting nonetheless.

 

My main concern with some of the cards here is how they can enable multiple pluses, and could become unfair to a certain extend. For instance, Floating Lamp can potentially negate and destroy, let's say, a Raigeki for a +1, and then its Flip revival effect will activate, generating an additional +1 for you. Ceremonial Pot is on a similar page, first by blocking a monster's attack and destroying it, and removing a card your opponent controls afterwards.

 

Now, I'm not saying that multiple plusing effects are the bane of the game and should be avoided like a plague, but they should be handled carefully in my opinion, and I can't tell at the moment if they way these Flippin monsters do it is the right way to handle it. On the other hand, if these cards are intended to be competitive, considering the section you posted them, then the extra pluses are practically a necessity to stand against most of the meta, so I dare so say you can even get away with these effects.

 

 

Yes, I intended the archetype to have a competitive use, especially to have the FLIP mechanic live on after the Shaddolls got hit the way they did (which Winter claims there can be a different variant of them as soon as DMoC and Dark Renewal become TCG legal, but that's another topic). 

I'm not actually sure though, if each corresponding FLIP effect will stay attached with the same negation effect. I need to match them up in the right way to not make one too mediocre compared to the rest or one too good compared to the rest. Also, the actual FLIP effect on each one is up for re-touches.

 

The intention is that each have a good FLIP effect for normal use, but on 1 out of 6 possible ways Flips become branded as "too slow and unreliable" and get typically taken care of without going off, these have a chance in which they'll give you an extra way to deal with things.

 

I'm also debating on if I decrease the number of members, because some of these different ways of removal often overlap with each other, and combined with the support the Pendulum ones give the Flip ones, there is probably a little too much control against your opponent.

Not to mention the one way that is not dealing with them AKA actually attacking into them, is also being countered...

I also considered making only like 4 members and making all of them Pendulums for constant re-appearance, but that doesn't sound fair even then.....

 

It really is a very rough early draft of them as of right now, so any help is very welcomed xP

 

 

[Darj]

I see.

If the intention is to tackle on the top tiers, then these effects should be acceptable, at least in my opinion. Personally, and this a bold opinion, but I would even go as far as making them Pendulums as you mentioned so you can keep them coming back, given the powercreep and following the examples of M&Ms (the top deck in OCG as far as I know) and, to lesser extent, Majespecters. Yes, once you set up, bringing back these little Flipplin monsters face-down through Pendulum Summon may feel overwhelming (for the opponent) at first, but once you consider that the opponent will know which monsters are concealed, then you realize the opponent should be able to play around them, lightening up the pressure. In a way, it would be similar to fighting Psy-Frames, except that this requires Pendulum setup and the opponent will know the counters you have at hand (or rather, field), but if he/she doesn't react properly, then you will simply flip these guys up for their effects on the next turn... in retrospect I suppose it can get scary, but again, these would take a bit of setup, and there are scarier threats out there in the metagame, anyway.

 

Yeah, re-arranging the "trap" and the flip effects in the monsters would be nice, because, for instance, the current versions of Pyramid of Peace and Cloud Sponge are more or less overshadowed by the rest, as their Flip effects don't exactly generate pluses.

 

The numbers are fine in my opinion. By overlapping some effects, you allow the deck to inherently have more answers to the opponent's threats, instead of relying on a single Flippin monster to do most of the work. For instance, against a Trap-based deck, you can hold on to Charm of Luck for disrupting the opponent, while still being backed up by Root and Pyramid for all-around generic protection.

Or... perhaps cut 2 after all, and keep 1 for each attribute.

 

If you reconsider making them Pendulums, something I'm thinking you can do to water them down by a bit is to weaken the protection effects by cutting their coverage and making them not destroy the negated card. For instance, taking the example from my previous post, Lamp negating a Raigeki may sound a bit too strong, but if instead only stopped an effect that affected only it, or maybe other Flippin or Set monsters you control, then it would be more bearable. To be more precise, I mean an effect like this:

If this face-down card would be affected by a Spell Card's effect: You can flip it face-up, and if you do, "Flippin" monsters and face-down cards you control are unaffected by that effect.

 

With the above version, Lamp no longer will outright negate Raigeki, which will destroy any other non-"Flippin" monsters you control, but not only it will keep itself and fellow Flippins safe, but also will activate its Flip effect.

Similarly, Ceremonial Pot would lose its ability to destroy the negating monster, making it a bit more fair, because, as you pointed out, attacking is the only way for the opponent to play around their protection effects, and further punishing him/her for doing so feels a bit silly.

 

I understand they already double as Pendulums, but the Monster Effects of the Pendulum Monsters feel a bit lackluster and aren't as practical since they have to be Summoned first to activate them. I'm thinking you could give them signature Flippin effects (a "trap" and a FLIP effect) in addition to their current effects, if only to make them a bit more useful while also sticking with the archetype's theme and flavor. Actually... this is just an idea, but I think the "trap" effects of Root and Pyramid would suit better on the Pendulums, establishing the latter as the backbone or staple members of the archetype.

 

 

That aside. I like and find a bit cute how, unlike most archetypes, these don't have any matching Attribute/Type and looks like they were picked at random. In a way, this feels creative.

Also wanted to comment on the Flip effect of Charm of Luck, because I once made a card with a similar effect of replacing "destroy" ---> "banish", and found this an interesting coincidence. However, my version was a Quick-Effect on a generic Rank4 and lasted then entire turn, and thus was deemed too strong, but yours is an OPT Flip effect and on a main deck monster, so it's much more tame.

[Toffee.]

Lets see...

 

Chaos Root

Chaos Root is Sakuretsu Armor with legs. K. The FLIP part lets you draw 1 for ech non-Token your opponent has- Tokens aren't exactly a common thing unless a Deck in question is honestly dedcated to it. You could probably get away with it counting Tokens since, again, Tokens aren't all that common. And even then, they are typically fodder right away and don't always stay around that long unless they have something going for them. This one is fine/I don't see issues with it.

 

Flippin Pyramid of Peace

I'm assuming you mean for only it to be able to negate that effect? If so, that makes the first effect... A little on the weak side. The fact it's a Book-of-Eclipse with Legs, though, is quite nice. Though, the 1st effect could also block off Raigeki/etc, in which case, you could re-word it slightly to something like "If this face-down card on the field would be destroyed by-"; I'm assuming this would be correct, since it's now checking the whole field instead of just stuff that only picks it.

 

Flippin Ceremonial Pot

This one... Feels like it does a little too much, but at the same time, it's really gimmicky. You mentioned earlier it's to fight off Pendulums, but like... Your opponent could just Banish somethig else they control/don't care enough for/etc, and it won't exactly solve the problem. You could, though, let it return stuff to the top of the Deck, in a manner similar to Legendary Jujitsu Master; I mean, it's an idea. The Banish/Send can potentially trigger stuff that goes off when sent to the Graveyard/etc, and I'm assuming you don't want that. But that's just the way I'm seeing this.

 

Flippin Cloud Sponge

This one feels a little redundant. The gain is nice, but the 1st effect makes it a little pointless because by "be effected by a monster effect"- This means either nukes OR stuff that specifically picks it; The former isn't that common, and the later would usually be something to hit your other cards. IMO, you could re-work this one.

 

Flippin Floating Lamp

The revival effect is iffy, because it's a FLIP version of Monster Reborn; This could, arguaby, be played outside of This Archetype, and could go off if you invested like 1-2 cards into it. You Summon it face-down, but still. Personally, I'd have This card revive other "Flippin" monsters. Seems more appropraite.

 

Flippin Charm of Luck

This one is fine as is. A little on the obscure side, but still. It's a gimmicky effect, but it's really cute if you pair it with something like Raigeki/Mirror Force/etc.

 

Flippin Shadow of the Mountain

The Pemdulum Effect is fine. The monster effect- I feel like you wanted to be Flame Mascot with this card, but at the same time it feels like you are denying it that potnetial. By this, I mean you could give the card a 'you can destroy this card' effect, or whatever, and then have the rest of it go off when it's destroyed. Plus, not a lot of things would realistically have a Scale of 1, unless it went out of it's way to have it, so I don't see any harm in the rest of it. 

 

Flippin Rainbow Star

For this one's 2nd effect, I'd reccomend doing a similar thing to what I suggested about Shadow. Aside from that, it's totally fine.

[Sleepy]

Lets see...

 

Chaos Root

Chaos Root is Sakuretsu Armor with legs. K. The FLIP part lets you draw 1 for ech non-Token your opponent has- Tokens aren't exactly a common thing unless a Deck in question is honestly dedcated to it. You could probably get away with it counting Tokens since, again, Tokens aren't all that common. And even then, they are typically fodder right away and don't always stay around that long unless they have something going for them. This one is fine/I don't see issues with it.

 

Flippin Pyramid of Peace

I'm assuming you mean for only it to be able to negate that effect? If so, that makes the first effect... A little on the weak side. The fact it's a Book-of-Eclipse with Legs, though, is quite nice. Though, the 1st effect could also block off Raigeki/etc, in which case, you could re-word it slightly to something like "If this face-down card on the field would be destroyed by-"; I'm assuming this would be correct, since it's now checking the whole field instead of just stuff that only picks it.

 

Flippin Ceremonial Pot

This one... Feels like it does a little too much, but at the same time, it's really gimmicky. You mentioned earlier it's to fight off Pendulums, but like... Your opponent could just Banish somethig else they control/don't care enough for/etc, and it won't exactly solve the problem. You could, though, let it return stuff to the top of the Deck, in a manner similar to Legendary Jujitsu Master; I mean, it's an idea. The Banish/Send can potentially trigger stuff that goes off when sent to the Graveyard/etc, and I'm assuming you don't want that. But that's just the way I'm seeing this.

 

Flippin Cloud Sponge

This one feels a little redundant. The gain is nice, but the 1st effect makes it a little pointless because by "be effected by a monster effect"- This means either nukes OR stuff that specifically picks it; The former isn't that common, and the later would usually be something to hit your other cards. IMO, you could re-work this one.

 

Flippin Floating Lamp

The revival effect is iffy, because it's a FLIP version of Monster Reborn; This could, arguaby, be played outside of This Archetype, and could go off if you invested like 1-2 cards into it. You Summon it face-down, but still. Personally, I'd have This card revive other "Flippin" monsters. Seems more appropraite.

 

Flippin Charm of Luck

This one is fine as is. A little on the obscure side, but still. It's a gimmicky effect, but it's really cute if you pair it with something like Raigeki/Mirror Force/etc.

 

Flippin Shadow of the Mountain

The Pemdulum Effect is fine. The monster effect- I feel like you wanted to be Flame Mascot with this card, but at the same time it feels like you are denying it that potnetial. By this, I mean you could give the card a 'you can destroy this card' effect, or whatever, and then have the rest of it go off when it's destroyed. Plus, not a lot of things would realistically have a Scale of 1, unless it went out of it's way to have it, so I don't see any harm in the rest of it. 

 

Flippin Rainbow Star

For this one's 2nd effect, I'd reccomend doing a similar thing to what I suggested about Shadow. Aside from that, it's totally fine.

 

Chaos Root

: I was mostly worried about an Ojama Trio combo drawing you 5 cards with ease. Are you sure it's ok?

Sakuretsu Armor? They are all booby traps yes xP I made this one with something like Mega Monarchs in mind, because they all need to target but sometimes can be immune to destruction.

 

Pyramid of Peace:

It is not meant to just specifically destroy this card, but to go off if someone would Raigeki/Dark Hole/Torrential/Exciton Knight/JD on you while this card happened to be among the "would be destroyed" cards.... I see no harm on changing the wording into your suggestion so I'll do it as soon as I can, but I'm honestly kind of confused on what the difference in the wording is that'd make my card not work like this unless the wording changed into that..... 

 

Pot:

iirc, the general ruling is that if a banished Dandylion would be returned to the Graveyard, it doesn't count as "sent" and wouldn't produce the tokens, so this card would be working on that similar way.

The intention was that it hits non-target cards, indestructible cards, and Pendulums which can't be sent to the Graveyard.... but I guess you are right that it's probably better off targeting and spinning it than giving them the choice to decide what to get rid of. I at first was thinking about the ease of searching it out right away that many decks have nowadays, but even that shouldn't be a problem coming to think of it. I rather like your suggestion because it'd make the Flip effect less convoluted and more basic, which is also one of the things I was going for. I'll use this xP

Though for the record, I think I'll use it in a different card because this one had the issue that it puts the opponent on the fence about attacking into these guys, which is the one window this archetype was supposed to give to them to get around the booby-trap effects.... so I'm thinking on getting rid of this card altogether and re-working it somewhere else that might also need some rework in the archetype....

 

 

Sponge:

If it would affect the Sponge while face-down regardless of if it ends up affecting other cards, then it triggers it. Be it a JD nuke or a Kaius target. As long as it is an effect monster's effect doing it, it flips up. I think I understand now that by adding "on the field" I would prevent misunderstanding for if something ever applies to face-down banished cards or whatever other weird scenario that might come up in the future so I'll add that bit.

but yeah, the only gains LP because the focus of decks is often on monster members of X archetype always getting this kind of job is very common these days, so it seemed like the easiest one to have go off. I guess +LP is still never really much of a great thing and this card would be purely defensive to combo with the Pendulum Effect of one of the scales when the opponent was after something...... I think I have an idea now of how to re-work this one..... hmmmm

 

Lamp:

True..... I'll edit this too.... or maybe at least give them a Level cap or ATK cap of some sort.... but definitely it is a little too generic right now. I also thought about just limiting it to FLIP monsters, but wasn't sure.

 

Charm:

Thanks.. it's to make staples actually hurt all the floaters and monsters with protection built-in, at last temporarily.

 

 

 

The Pendulums getting that change would mean each copy of Supply Unit would be a very easy "draw 1 card per turn" and other than that not much else would be different, would it? I guess for a deck striving to be competitive level, I think it could afford to do it. I'll be ready to update pretty soon.

 

 

[Toffee.]

: I was mostly worried about an Ojama Trio combo drawing you 5 cards with ease. Are you sure it's ok?

Sakuretsu Armor? They are all booby traps yes xP I made this one with something like Mega Monarchs in mind, because they all need to target but sometimes can be immune to destruction.

Ojama Trio is Semi'd, and even then, it's a gimmicky play to use an otherwise dead card with Root in order to draw more cards; It's honestly not that bard.

 

Pyramid of Peace:

It is not meant to just specifically destroy this card, but to go off if someone would Raigeki/Dark Hole/Torrential/Exciton Knight/JD on you while this card happened to be among the "would be destroyed" cards.... I see no harm on changing the wording into your suggestion so I'll do it as soon as I can, but I'm honestly kind of confused on what the difference in the wording is that'd make my card not work like this unless the wording changed into that.....

Actually I just assumed you meant for it to only protect itself, as I mentioned. So in this case, guess I just read it wrong; silly me.

 

iirc, the general ruling is that if a banished Dandylion would be returned to the Graveyard, it doesn't count as "sent" and wouldn't produce the tokens, so this card would be working on that similar way.

The intention was that it hits non-target cards, indestructible cards, and Pendulums which can't be sent to the Graveyard.... but I guess you are right that it's probably better off targeting and spinning it than giving them the choice to decide what to get rid of. I at first was thinking about the ease of searching it out right away that many decks have nowadays, but even that shouldn't be a problem coming to think of it. I rather like your suggestion because it'd make the Flip effect less convoluted and more basic, which is also one of the things I was going for. I'll use this xP

Though for the record, I think I'll use it in a different card because this one had the issue that it puts the opponent on the fence about attacking into these guys, which is the one window this archetype was supposed to give to them to get around the booby-trap effects.... so I'm thinking on getting rid of this card altogether and re-working it somewhere else that might also need some rework in the archetype....

If you don't want it to target, just have it say "Banish 1 card your opponent-". Targeting only really comes into effect if a card actually says it O,o

I merely suggested spinning cuz' I thought it would be cooler then forcing stuff to the Graveyard. but it's your call on however you want it to be.

 

Sponge:

If it would affect the Sponge while face-down regardless of if it ends up affecting other cards, then it triggers it. Be it a JD nuke or a Kaius target. As long as it is an effect monster's effect doing it, it flips up. I think I understand now that by adding "on the field" I would prevent misunderstanding for if something ever applies to face-down banished cards or whatever other weird scenario that might come up in the future so I'll add that bit.

but yeah, the only gains LP because the focus of decks is often on monster members of X archetype always getting this kind of job is very common these days, so it seemed like the easiest one to have go off. I guess +LP is still never really much of a great thing and this card would be purely defensive to combo with the Pendulum Effect of one of the scales when the opponent was after something...... I think I have an idea now of how to re-work this one..... hmmmm

Lifepoint gain is fine, but it doesn't exactly do anything practical. You could, like, let it search other Archetype members in addition to the boost. Or just, let it do something else O,o

 

Lamp:

True..... I'll edit this too.... or maybe at least give them a Level cap or ATK cap of some sort.... but definitely it is a little too generic right now. I also thought about just limiting it to FLIP monsters, but wasn't sure.

Coinorma can Summon any Level 3 or higher FLIP monster from your hand/Deck face-down, but it then limits your monster effects to only being able to use Prediction Princess monsters. You could use this card as a means of giving you ideas, if you wanted. 'Course, limiting it to just FLIP monsters is also fine.

 

The Pendulums getting that change would mean each copy of Supply Unit would be a very easy "draw 1 card per turn" and other than that not much else would be different, would it? I guess for a deck striving to be competitive level, I think it could afford to do it. I'll be ready to update pretty soon.

Actually, I just figured Wavering Eyes shenanigans could be pretty silly.

I mean, you could just have the monster effect says 'You can tribute this card on the field' if you don't want destructon to factor in. Plus, it would still let them use whatever effect. Just, current version saying 'you can tribute this card, do [x]' implies it has to be a monster. It also saying "on the field" means it can go off from anywhere on the field/while it's face-up.