Horu Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 Original Stargate Dragon Light Dragon/Effect Lv7 2500/2000 (1) If you control no monsters: You can Special Summon this card from your hand, Deck or GY. (2) If this card is Banished: You can Banish 1 "Stargate" card from your GY to shuffle this card into your Deck Update Stargate Dragon Light Dragon/Effect Lv7 2500/2000 (1) Once per turn, if you control no monsters: You can Banish 1 "Stargate" monster from your GY; Special Summon this card from your hand, Deck or GY. (2) If this card is Banished: You can Banish 1 "Stargate" card from your GY; shuffle this card into your Deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 Welp, unless you're going for experimental, there is not (AFAIK) a monster with the effect to Special Summon itself from your Deck. It's kinda crazy if you think about it. ~~~~~~~~~~ Duel Starts, Your opponent goes first, does his stuff. Now it's your turn. Horu - Ok, so, I Special Summon! Opponent - Oh, from your hand... Horu - No! *takes his deck, searches for the Dragon and Special Summons it to his field* . Special Summon Stargate Dragon! It's a 2500 / 2000 Lv 7 beater that Summons itself from Deck! Opponent - B-But a monster in the Deck can't... O-Ok. Bottomless Trap Hole to your Stargate Dragon. Horu - I Special Summon another monster! Opponent - From the hand this time, righ--- Horu - **takes his deck, searches for another Stargate Dragon and Special Summons it to his field* Opponent - Wha... Horu - It has no HOPT, mwahaha. Opponent - Bye. *Stands up and leaves* ~~~~~~~~~~ Just... consider this, Horu xD. In truth, I'm working in an archetype that might involve Special Summon from Deck, but it has some other steps, you'll see what I mean later. Special Summoning from Deck out of the blue seems like a no, even with the no mobs in control restriction. Second effect seems fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horu Posted July 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rayfield Lumina said: Welp, unless you're going for experimental, there is not (AFAIK) a monster with the effect to Special Summon itself from your Deck. It's kinda crazy if you think about it. ~~~~~~~~~~ Duel Starts, Your opponent goes first, does his stuff. Now it's your turn. Horu - Ok, so, I Special Summon! Opponent - Oh, from your hand... Horu - No! *takes his deck, searches for the Dragon and Special Summons it to his field* . Special Summon Stargate Dragon! It's a 2500 / 2000 Lv 7 beater that Summons itself from Deck! Opponent - B-But a monster in the Deck can't... O-Ok. Bottomless Trap Hole to your Stargate Dragon. Horu - I Special Summon another monster! Opponent - From the hand this time, righ--- Horu - **takes his deck, searches for another Stargate Dragon and Special Summons it to his field* Opponent - Wha... Horu - It has no HOPT, mwahaha. Opponent - Bye. *Stands up and leaves* ~~~~~~~~~~ Just... consider this, Horu xD. In truth, I'm working in an archetype that might involve Special Summon from Deck, but it has some other steps, you'll see what I mean later. Special Summoning from Deck out of the blue seems like a no, even with the no mobs in control restriction. Second effect seems fine. I get that. This is supposed to a protag archetype afterall (if you haven't guessed that by the statline) and you are right. I believe the only monsters we've gotten recently that SS themselves from the deck are Red-Eyes Black Metal Dragon and Dark Sage (with specific conditions being met). So I may make this a bit harder to hit that SS button since it can recycle itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokutah Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 Well @Rayfield Lumina there actually a couple more irl monsters that does special summon itself from the deck: https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Special_Summons_itself_from_your_Deck To be fair, there an obvious reason that konami rarely print this type of ability As for the card, 1st effect is strong, be careful in balancing when working the full archetype 2nd effect either require HOPT or adding stipulation of not banish another copy of itself because it can cause infinite loop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Horu said: I get that. This is supposed to a protag archetype afterall (if you haven't guessed that by the statline) and you are right. I believe the only monsters we've gotten recently that SS themselves from the deck are Red-Eyes Black Metal Dragon and Dark Sage (with specific conditions being met). So I may make this a bit harder to hit that SS button since it can recycle itself. My card knowledge is somewhat lacking (hence the AFAIK and not a categorical affirmation), so nice pointing out those cards. Then my brain started working and I remembered the Familiar Possessed series can also Special Summon themselves from hand or Deck, but they require you to send their own "Charmer" version and a monster of the same Attribute you control to the GY to be Summoned.Which in turn made me thing of the new Awakening of the Possessed Cards, which also have this kind of effect. So yeah, as you can see, they have their steep price to be SS, so what you mention about hardening the conditions is right on track EDIT: Holy moly, @Dokutah Jolly we pretty much posted at the same time lol. But yep, there were more. I definitely didn't remember Metalzoa or the Sphinx, but in all fairness they're trash xD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loleo Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 A no cost summon from your deck under specific conditions is fine if that is all it does at a HOPT. Even if it can recycle. This topic has made me decide to post the things to consider when balancing. -cost -consistency -advantage -approach to win con -what it prevents -synergy -ATK DEF Range for level, effect power, and other cards to consider (rekindling) -Level being power in itself if it can be used as material This should probably be its own post and some people may think this seems intuitive. Horu, you've been doing this longer then me so I would love to hear if I'm missing something. Right now you're guaranteed +1 using one from deck first turn; then, if you use cards that can use it as a cost (taking it of the field in any way) you can get it up to 4 more times after that which also thins your deck by 3 cards. If this card were to exist it should lock you into stargate cards and have a HOPT before reanalyzing. Even then, this would be the first card in the game to special summon itself from the deck with no cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horu Posted July 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, ITSUKOSOADO said: A no cost summon from your deck under specific conditions is fine if that is all it does at a HOPT. Even if it can recycle. This topic has made me decide to post the things to consider when balancing. -cost -consistency -advantage -approach to win con -what it prevents -synergy -ATK DEF Range for level, effect power, and other cards to consider (rekindling) -Level being power in itself if it can be used as material This should probably be its own post and some people may think this seems intuitive. Horu, you've been doing this longer then me so I would love to hear if I'm missing something. Right now you're guaranteed +1 using one from deck first turn; then, if you use cards that can use it as a cost (taking it of the field in any way) you can get it up to 4 more times after that which also thins your deck by 3 cards. If this card were to exist it should lock you into stargate cards and have a HOPT before reanalyzing. Even then, this would be the first card in the game to special summon itself from the deck with no cost. No you are absolutely right. I do plan on balancing out the effect quite a bit. And the rest of the archetype is supposed to be low level beaters that don't do much in the way of effects. Also, no plans to make any ED monsters for this archetype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horu Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 Updated it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loleo Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Horu said: No you are absolutely right. I do plan on balancing out the effect quite a bit. And the rest of the archetype is supposed to be low level beaters that don't do much in the way of effects. Also, no plans to make any ED monsters for this archetype. The way you balanced works great! If you don't mind I have a couple of other little things that could be fixed and some archetype ideas if you're open to them Fixes: 1. Your updated card is hidden in the original card spoiler 2. Does the OPT work? I think you have to specify "you can only use this effect of Stargate dragon Once per turn" because of the type of effect it is. Archetype ideas: 1. Stargate Dragon is easily brought out so maybe your monsters get some perks while stargate is out. 2. This could work very well as an engine maybe have effects when banished by stargate dragon or other stargate cards? 3. Stargate REALLY makes me think synchro because stars are levels and the monsters are gates to the extradeck, I get this 100% goes against the beater and extra deck idea though. 4. maybe even synchro/fusion/ summoning by banishing the material or returning the material to GY (Goes against you not wanting to make an extra deck ahhh) 4. Long story short the deck would revolve around having monsters that draw there power from Stargate dragon's presence on the field (simple abilities or protection) and being banished by stargate cards (which could generate a little advantage or cause interference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horu Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 I'll consider it. Because the recycle effect says "card" instead of "monster". This was intentional as I planned on having Spells/Traps with effects that activate when they are Banished. So pretty much, the recycle is intended to set off a chain of events since the dragon is effectively jumping through the space-time continuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerer Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 A couple technical fixes for the Summon effect (since it looks like everyone else has the power/flavor covered): 1. The card starts a chain. I don't know if you want this or not, but none of the other "summon from deck" monsters start a chain (mostly because I think effects that activate in the deck is actually rarer than summoning monsters from the deck). 2. The card's "Once per turn" won't do anything. The type of "Once per turn" that you used only applies once the monster is on the field (with a single exception AFAIK). If you want to limit the special summon to only happen once per turn, you will need to put the Summon restriction after that Summon effect (see Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon for an example). Quick fix: You can Special Summon this card (from your hand, Deck or GY) if you control no monsters. You can only Special Summon "Stargate Dragon" once per turn this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horu Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Tinkerer said: A couple technical fixes for the Summon effect (since it looks like everyone else has the power/flavor covered): 1. The card starts a chain. I don't know if you want this or not, but none of the other "summon from deck" monsters start a chain (mostly because I think effects that activate in the deck is actually rarer than summoning monsters from the deck). 2. The card's "Once per turn" won't do anything. The type of "Once per turn" that you used only applies once the monster is on the field (with a single exception AFAIK). If you want to limit the special summon to only happen once per turn, you will need to put the Summon restriction after that Summon effect (see Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon for an example). Quick fix: You can Special Summon this card (from your hand, Deck or GY) if you control no monsters. You can only Special Summon "Stargate Dragon" once per turn this way. That is a valid point. But most Stargate Dragon also summons itself from the hand or grave so I think being able to allow your opponent to chain is fair since the worst they can do is banish the thing and force it right back into your deck. So I'll allow the chain for that reason. But I'm gonna put a HOPT on both effects now that I think about it. So still gonna have that "You can only activate each effect of "Stargate" Dragon" once per turn." So that should shut down the recycle spam as well. The reason I decided to reinforce the HOPT on the card instead of changing the first effect is pretty simple. Well there are actually a couple reasons. 1) the first effect specifically says "this card" and I intend to keep the chain as it fits the flavor of the card. Jumping through time should start a chain. Aside from that, this thing is jumping from the past (graveyard), near future (hand) or distant future (deck) to the present (field) so that is bound to cause some trouble. 2) the second effect is, yet again, this thing jumping from the ancient past (banished) to the distant future (deck) and that should also have a sort of ripple effect. Overall, as cool as the effect is, the card is just a Lv7 beater when it hits the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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