Dead Internet Theory

[Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan]

Hey Guys,

I originally this was going to be a status post but I think this is way too important and big of a deal (or is going to become in the near future I would say give it 1 or 2 years and you will finally wake up to what I'm talking about.) just to be status post but I decided to make it its own post.

Some people may think its an conspiracy some might think its true but whatever your stance on this is you gotta here me out on this ever since 2023 AI has been the name of the game whether its been AI Chatbots, AI Images (My least favourite I think they just look ugly and they are garbage but again I do not like AI as a whole.), AI Music, and now even freaking AI Videos (Thanks OpenAI did you really need to do that I hate OpenAI SORA with a passion its right next to AI Art.), you see AI is the name of the game but if its not already just give it 1-2 years and boom it will be the only piece of shit you can interact with on the internet because AI is advancing at such a rapid pace at this point that I don't even think well need to wait 1-2 Years, now I want to bring your attention something bad that just happened on this site not too long ago BOTS it started in February of 2024 where we had Porno BOTS and other types of advertisement BOTS trying to get us to click on those links or just posting creating treads, or replying to other people's post on the site via threads or status which was why the site's activity seemed dead at the time its still not better now but it got so bad too the point where users on the site started joking about it... the BOTTING Problem which only just stopped now even a month ago when @YCMaker/@Falling Pizza returned to gaslight us with a post how we should all appreciate how this site exist and them wanting us to create cards and be happy and not complain "Sorry" "Sorry" I was getting a little off topic.

But we could obviously tell that those where scams either trying to infect our devices with Malware, scam us out of our money, or just plainly waste our time and its pretty obvious that BOTS go dumb dumb oh if you only knew how good we have it for now... but think a couple months or years and you will wish you could go back in time, right now the BOTS lack the fundamentals to do anything harmful in a successful manner some other BOTS are already utilizing the power of "AI" luckily we didn't have to deal with that here because they where not using AI or they wouldn't be posting links to porno sites and try to be on topic and not try to put you into their little scheme right away it would have been done in more smartly ehhh kinda which is really scary when you really think about it this doesn't help when you have stupid little prickly rich billionaire assholes like "Sam Altman" who wants everything and anything to become AI and its bad enough that they infringe on copyright laws and take people's shit without consent their Training Data isn't even public I could just go on and on about it all day but this should be saved for another day.

Now ever since the boom in AI especially in AI Art I have noticed that the amount of AI Images on the site has significantly went up and this is only made worse because @YCMaker deiced "well if you can't beat them you might as well join them" and has implemented an goddamn freaking AI Image Generator for what reason well the reason is that is so that user's didn't have to go to another site to generate the images and then bring them but last year @cr47t made a Petition and Open Letter to YCMaker to ban AI Art on the Card Maker and considering that most of the images generated by AI is straight up just theft and plagiarism and it was something artists where pissed off about even making videos about how much they hate it and the reasons why there should be regulations on AI Image Generators can produce but it even got so bad where they where producing explicit photos of minors like WTF man they collect so much data to train on these image generators that companies like Microsoft, OpenAI, Midjouerny, and StableDiffusion don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves its just a game of profit at the end of the day but it got so bad that the government had to step in and clean this shit up you don't know how serious this is than we have idiots like @Jason Williams and many others that try to defend and downplay this like its "nothing" and saying AI is not going away no we know that all we want to do is just regulate it but you idiots are ruining that for us damn the AI Bros will defend their AI Pals its all bullshit 1 year later AI Art is still in the Card Maker and the bugs with it are still there too YCMaker is such a lair I know this turned into something else how did it go from Dead Internet Theory to Zama rants about AI I will get to that now don't rush me.

So what does this all have to do with AI "EVERYTHING" as AI improves and gets better as a whole the internet will get worse bad bots already make up 30% of all activity on the web a cyber security analysis company gave the public the data about it now you throw AI into the mix and everything suddenly gets way worse The Dead Internet Theory has been going on for over a decade now because Social Media was ruining the web and I still think Social Media is ruining the web and still don't like it but we have bigger fish to worry about just some stupid Social Media sites by 2026 it is predicted that most of the things we interact with will all be AI and at this pointing its already starting to look at that is going to be the case we already have AI Garbage in the form of users generating AI Images and posting them in Card Based Threads which I already see that garbage everyday and have to blacklist users that are into that kind of stuff or do that kind of stuff because I don't wanna see it I just get angry when seeing AI Art you may think this is funny but I think you are not seeing the bigger picture hmmm you gotta ask yourself this what is the end game here why are the companies doing this is why are they so pushy when it comes to AI and since 2023 everyone has been on the AI Hype Train and I don't like it I have a right not to like it is that not okay or is that just me being offensive in what I see as garbage on the internet no I have my reasons there are those out there that are Anti-AI but there will always be people who are too dumb and stupid and want to side with AI no matter what happens this is what is going to be the Internet's biggest downfall.

Don't believe me than why has all of the search engines from Bing to Google have been getting worse just look at this Reddit Post yes Reddit yes we all love to poke fun and laugh at it but its the only thing that I could find that will not be shoved under a pile of AI SEO Garbage articles all just spouting all the same fucking nonsensical garbage all trying to get number 1 on Google Search Results so they spam and flood SEO Results with AI Generated Garbage clogging up the 1st page of Google Search Results its not necessary about Google Search Engine becoming garbage its mostly affects all SEO as a whole and is an SEO Problem companies that write articles or only focused on trying to get as many clicks as possible garbage in garbage out and with AI things are only bound to get worse if we don't take any actions to restrict it and strip down as much of its power and harm as possible its effects on the web have already proven to be true just take a look at Twitter OH wait I mean X for eXample yeah I only made the X big as a joke but take a look at that garbage platform that place is full of AI BOTS this is only going to get worse if we don't do anything about this and regulators don't regulate it hard enough or fast enough of what AI can be used for and what it couldn't be used for and that's not all anyone and everyone has access to AI cause its out in the open and that is the part that also makes it very dangerous if there isn't any actions taken against it now it may seem like people like you and me are powerless but we can do this all you need to do is contact your senators or PMs based on which countries you live in and keep contacting them with messages of how much you want AI regulated and controlled I can't do this alone but together we can make a difference we may seem like nobody which we probably our but come on our efforts combine greatly when we all work together if somebody can make a change it can be US and the only way to do that is if we complain to the government enough share this message with your friends, family, strangers, anybody share this everywhere I want it to reach out to as many people as possible the louder our voice the louder they will hear us and actually want to do something about it "You" could be the one that saves the future of the "Internet" so future generations have access to it and can look back at its history long after we are all gone.

So why did I go on this long rant because I watched this YouTube video and I think you should too its 30 Minutes yeah yeah your attention span is too short but we have to try to save the future of the internet for future generations it took me over 2 hours to write and post this forum post I will leave a YouTube video and I will also leave a post of the authors original post from Macintosh Cafe down below I've been writing this for over 2 hours now and I'm saying this as I'm finishing up writing this I all hope you have a good day.

Forum Post of the original person who talked about this in 2021: https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/dead-internet-theory-most-of-the-internet-is-fake.3011/ (Beware that this may contain offensive stuff that may trigger you and it also kind of goes of on the deep end.)

Edited April 6 by Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan

[Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan]

@Raikoh130 I would like to hear your thoughts on the topic.

[Raikoh130]

3 hours ago, Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan said:

@Raikoh130 I would like to hear your thoughts on the topic.

I wanted to see "Late Night with the Devil". Found out they used AI. Canceled the ticket.

That's my status on AI. I do not support it at all. People are going too crazy with it.

[cr47t]

it's interesting we talk about this here because both the YCM forum and NCM actually have been pretty resistant to a bot takeover from what I can see, maybe because the forum has lost relevance in comparison to the card maker itself. when the bots do show up here they couldn't be more obvious. one of the main reasons I stay around honestly

a place like Twitter (i'm just gonna call it that ) on the other hand has been undergoing a massive bot problem since elon took charge. maybe because elon's reputation as a tech bro makes the people running the bots feel more empowered, maybe it's monetization of tweets giving an incentive, maybe this was going to happen anyway and the events since the buyout just made it go so much faster, but there's no incentive to be you on twitter anymore. you play the game or get lost in the shuffle - Optimus actually made a commentary video about the Twitter situation alone its a good watch here it is

in any case what i am saying is, i'm grateful for smaller sites like this and NCM that aren't scammy or bot-infested.

as for you @Raikoh130 i'm with you, don't engage unless it's inferably human made beyond a reasonable doubt.

and lastly @Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan could you please put further effort into either making your point more concisely, or at least using more paragraph breaks? thanks in advance

Edited April 6 by cr47t
accidentally got it posted before i was done writing

[Jordan Ashwood]

opting out of a pointless conversation 

Edited April 13 by Jordan Ashwood

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

34 minutes ago, Jordan Ashwood said:

I'm a programmer, but I'm not very good, so I can't stop it. I tried. So what's there left to do? Well, like I said, I'm a writer. A storyteller. I always wanted visuals to go with the stories I tell, so I might as well use AI to help that happen. Why not? The end is soon, and AI won't just go away because "well I'm not gonna use it!" It won't go back in the box. There is no undo button. So I might as well get something I like out of it before it ends everything.

 

[Jordan Ashwood]

opting out

Edited April 13 by Jordan Ashwood

[kyop]

26 minutes ago, Jordan Ashwood said:

They both do research. They both look at pictures of willow trees. They both may search through drawing tutorials. They both then use the fruits of their research to draw a willow tree.

That is not how training an AI works. Image generation is theft if the dataset was made using art without the proper permission, and the same should apply for writing novels.

I do agree with the military stuff, tho, but unfortunately they have been using tech for years to do what they do.

 

On topic:

To be honest, AI iself isn't the problem, it's just us again. Some people research AI to improve accessibility for those who need, some people are spamming the internet with stupid bots, fake images and all that stuff. It sucks, I'm not sure regulation will be efficient (better than nothing, ofc) or will deal with it in the right way and there has been some discussion on AI ethics lately, but I wish we could deal with the serious stuff faster.

[Jordan Ashwood]

opting out

Edited April 13 by Jordan Ashwood

[8corners]

Hey, all, here after a long absence.  This is a good thread with several good points.  I just want to suggest we consider another important dimension to the problem and/or its solution, which some would say is always the most important one:  money.   People (in companies, usually, but that doesn't matter) make money on the internet - a lot of money - and have a very strong interest in keeping the internet functional.  The problem of AI slop clogging up the internet reminds me of decades ago when people were convinced, based on a lot of evidence, that spam was going to destroy email.  It didn't, because corporations had a strong interest in keeping email functional, and used the same tech of the time to create spam filters that work SO much better now than they did back then.  I really think that there will be a LOT of people-based effort to keep bot-generated content distinguishable from real content, and that in turn will keep the internet useful.

I'm actually old enough to have taken a course in college called "Intro to Artificial Intelligence" decades ago, long before machine learning was a thing.  "Expert systems" in the 1980s were going to replace everything from government administrators to nuclear power plant operators because they were so "smart."  But we gradually learned that "AI" really never meant true intelligence the way it works in our heads, and has for all this time really just meant "code that does things that we're not used to seeing code do."  So the definition of AI always shifts - as we get used to computers doing something tolerably well, it doesn't seem "intelligent" anymore. Unfortunately, attention-grabbing terms like "AI" are very useful for flashy marketing - "Artificial Intelligence" sells in a way that "glorified autocomplete" doesn't. My point is, just because it is doing things we haven't seen computers do before (at least, as well as now) it doesn't mean that it does what our brains do.  Nor that we'll necessarily ever get there - there is SO much that our brains can do that no computers can, even today, nor in the foreseeable future!

Now of course it's true that automation is going to cost people jobs, often jobs that we consider as requiring a lot of training, practice, and skill. Automation has always been a challenge to our social order. That was true in the 1870s when the automation was done by steam and gears; it was true in the 1980s, when travel agents got slowly but surely replaced by algorithms on travel sites; heck, we had stock-photography websites "putting artists out of business" back then.  And it's true now with "AI".  But there are still craftspeople doing every kind of work by hand, and there are still travel agents, and there will always be writers and illustrators -- though their markets and yes, maybe their tools, will change.  So I agree that there's a very big shift in the works due to the advances in tech right now, but I think I'm more optimistic than many that it won't be the "end of the internet" nor the end of humanity.  

[Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan]

5 hours ago, 8corners said:

Hey, all, here after a long absence.  This is a good thread with several good points.  I just want to suggest we consider another important dimension to the problem and/or its solution, which some would say is always the most important one:  money.   People (in companies, usually, but that doesn't matter) make money on the internet - a lot of money - and have a very strong interest in keeping the internet functional.  The problem of AI slop clogging up the internet reminds me of decades ago when people were convinced, based on a lot of evidence, that spam was going to destroy email.  It didn't, because corporations had a strong interest in keeping email functional, and used the same tech of the time to create spam filters that work SO much better now than they did back then.  I really think that there will be a LOT of people-based effort to keep bot-generated content distinguishable from real content, and that in turn will keep the internet useful.

I'm actually old enough to have taken a course in college called "Intro to Artificial Intelligence" decades ago, long before machine learning was a thing.  "Expert systems" in the 1980s were going to replace everything from government administrators to nuclear power plant operators because they were so "smart."  But we gradually learned that "AI" really never meant true intelligence the way it works in our heads, and has for all this time really just meant "code that does things that we're not used to seeing code do."  So the definition of AI always shifts - as we get used to computers doing something tolerably well, it doesn't seem "intelligent" anymore. Unfortunately, attention-grabbing terms like "AI" are very useful for flashy marketing - "Artificial Intelligence" sells in a way that "glorified autocomplete" doesn't. My point is, just because it is doing things we haven't seen computers do before (at least, as well as now) it doesn't mean that it does what our brains do.  Nor that we'll necessarily ever get there - there is SO much that our brains can do that no computers can, even today, nor in the foreseeable future!

Now of course it's true that automation is going to cost people jobs, often jobs that we consider as requiring a lot of training, practice, and skill. Automation has always been a challenge to our social order. That was true in the 1870s when the automation was done by steam and gears; it was true in the 1980s, when travel agents got slowly but surely replaced by algorithms on travel sites; heck, we had stock-photography websites "putting artists out of business" back then.  And it's true now with "AI".  But there are still craftspeople doing every kind of work by hand, and there are still travel agents, and there will always be writers and illustrators -- though their markets and yes, maybe their tools, will change.  So I agree that there's a very big shift in the works due to the advances in tech right now, but I think I'm more optimistic than many that it won't be the "end of the internet" nor the end of humanity.  

I think you made a pretty good points with your response something like this has always existed but not to this skill I'm kinda worried about the people who are miss using it or gonna in the future but I think there using the word "AI" as some catchy buzz word but maybe I feel as if there where things in place to protect people's jobs and other things I wouldn't be as up in arms about it.

If there is a system in place that can fitter out all of the "AI Generated" Garbage on the internet so we can see the real works of art and other stuff from an actually human or someone who isn't just lazy and slop asses that just want to make a quick buck that would be very nice.

Now all I would like is for @Horu to read this I don't want this kind of technology being over glorified and over praised like its a good thing.

Edited April 8 by Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan

[Yui]

On 4/6/2024 at 3:47 PM, Jordan Ashwood said:

I'm a programmer, but I'm not very good, so I can't stop it. I tried. So what's there left to do? Well, like I said, I'm a writer. A storyteller. I always wanted visuals to go with the stories I tell, so I might as well use AI to help that happen. Why not? The end is soon, and AI won't just go away because "well I'm not gonna use it!" It won't go back in the box. There is no undo button. So I might as well get something I like out of it before it ends everything.

So, I was gonna respond to this when I first saw it, but I realized that would be very unwise because I just about wanted to rip your head off when I first saw it. After taking a couple days off, briefly forgetting about this post in the first place, and then remembering it a bit earlier today, I'm here to do the replying thing without all the hostility and anger.

The long and short of it is, this sort of mentality flat-out and unambiguously makes you part of the AI problem. Your motives are irrelevant, your mindset reeks of double standards, and if everyone subscribes to this same sort of idea, AI actually will replace artists in a matter of decades, if not years, as well as other types of creators as well. If the "dead internet theory" comes true, which I find ridiculous in the extreme, it will be because of precisely this sort of "Well, I can't beat the machine, so I might as well join it!" line of thought. The AI won't go away because you don't use it, but that's no excuse to shun learning a new skill or finding someone to do it for you in favor of pushing the art theft button. By this same standard, you might as well stop telling stories yourself, and let ChatGPT do it, right? But you would never do such a thing, I'm sure, so why's learning a new skill again any different?

As a bit of a writer myself, and a half-decent artist who always strives to self-improve, both in creative pursuits as well as how I conduct myself as a human being, I can conjure neither the words nor the imagery to properly express my unbridled disappointment that someone would actually think this way. Especially someone who is so against AI that you literally got institutionalized over it, if everything you say is true.

[Jordan Ashwood]

opting out

Edited April 13 by Jordan Ashwood

[kyop]

11 hours ago, Jordan Ashwood said:

Furthermore, I've seen enough of the innerworkings of the image generators to gather that it isn't a matter of Art Theft by any preexisting definition.

Yes, the model isn't commiting art theft in any way, the problem is always what the dataset is made of. Some companies train their own models with their own stuff, some companies take stuff from the internet to generate new stuff.

Taking inspiration from something to do your own is its own thing. AI does a bunch of math to draw, and bunch of math is not inspiration. Not to mention that you can easily find lawsuits regarding image generation on the internet due to the generated product being (almost) identical to something that it was fed. (i hope the link didn't made the post look like one of those random bots xD)

If someone wants to use their own drawings to train a model to create new stuff for them, just go ahead, you're doing it with your own hands. I personally don't think AI will replace artists at any time, people are just hyped until the *new thing* comes and everyone boards on the new hype train. I can't count how many cryptobros I've met back when cryptocurrencies were getting big.

Art is hard even when you do have the skills/technique, let alone when you're trying to write a promp to describe what you want xD. I'm more into music, and writing something like "upbeat chiptune song" + a bunch of flags won't create what I want. It's about trying to create what I want to hear, so it's not that simple, and I believe this applies to any kind of art.

Just giving my last 2 cents, I do think we could use AI as tools for inspiration... when things get more ethical.