I swear to God, if you bring up this or any past fomat, I will kill you.

[Azure]

Why is Arcana Force XXI banned?!

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Synchro Monsters and Level modifiers that we are just now beginning to really get are becoming a way of more easily using Metamorphosis. But, with cards like Demise and the extremely abusable fusions gone, it's not broken.

[Flame Dragon]

Why is Heavy Storm banned? It punishes your opponent for over exerting their spell and traps, which can allow it to stay at 1.

 

Why isn't Gyzarus banned? Gyzarus, while being theme-specific, is easy to summon, generates a nice bit of advantage and can allow an easy summon of Heraklinos which can then put the person facing Heraklinos into a hard to get out of predicament. For this it should be at 0.

 

While Jinzo does invalidates traps it also prevents you from using traps which could come at some cost. He can also punish your opponent for being overly reliant on traps. Also, don't people only run around 5 traps to begin with? If this was the case then Jinzo's impact wouldn't be that great. Still I guess Royal Decree can do every thing Jinzo can but in a less damaging way.

Ctrl+F: Toon Table of Contests

 

Text not found.

 

Care to explain?

Why should it be at 1?

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Reasonings will be provided on demand.

 

This accomplishes nothing aside from 1) giving another easy way for the reader to refuse dialogue, which is anathema to any proper intent for a topic like this, 2) permitting early laziness, and 3) forcing initial presentation of evidence onto the reader.

 

All three are faux pas.

 

Giving the reader more opportunities to up and leave decreases all benefit; we want posts for both a good conversation and lulzmining.

 

Laziness on your part gives a small impression that you're not willing to immediately work either for the lulzmine or the good convo.

 

Forcing initial presentation of evidence onto the reader gives an impression that you assume this list to be the list of lists, while also giving an impression of not wanting to let the readers into your modus operandi.

 

 

Rather, presenting even the slightest tidbits of evidence, such as "we have tested the complaints, and found no reasoning for this card's present position", would slightly alleviate the above mistakes.

 

 

 

I introduced this discussion style to those who would defend or dismantle your list as well or better than yourself, yet those persons still fail to meet certain needs - your being slightly behind them does not bode well for getting anywhere insightful with a discussion. It would be wise to absorb my reccomendations, as they will only assist you, although it seems unlikely you will.

 

 

Also, this format and all previous have sucked in some fashion, unfortunately for reasons that you might yet fail to address in any useful sense. Your topic's title shows another flaw in reasoning - that thoughts of prior formats, by necessity, invalidate claims. The proper matter is that of realizing that all prior formats have had problems, and that we must treat this mix, this synthesis, as much more than the sum of its parts.

 

 

As one of the originators of this discussion prospect, I feel there is fertile ground here for a discussion transplant - I will take what assessments of the others I recently assembled, and apply them here whereever they remain valid.

 

Your list operates by means of several assumptions and prior premises; it is time you defended them, thereby defending the list's foundation rather than its capstone. First, you must articulate those assumptions and prior premises.

[Phantom Roxas]

Why is Heavy Storm banned? It punishes your opponent for over exerting their spell and traps' date=' which can allow it to stay at 1.

 

Why isn't Gyzarus banned? Gyzarus, while being theme-specific, is easy to summon, generates a nice bit of advantage and can allow an easy summon of Heraklinos which can then put the person facing Heraklinos into a hard to get out of predicament. For this it should be at 0.

 

While Jinzo does invalidates traps it also prevents you from using traps which could come at some cost. He can also punish your opponent for being overly reliant on traps. Also, don't people only run around 5 traps to begin with? If this was the case then Jinzo's impact wouldn't be that great. Still I guess Royal Decree can do every thing Jinzo can but in a less damaging way.

Ctrl+F: Toon Table of Contests

 

Text not found.

 

Care to explain?

Why should it be at 1?

Another problem with this list is that Toon Table of Contents is still at 3. Any fool who's taken a look at the new Spell Counter support can see the problem with this. Toon Table of Contents' combo with itself removes all skill involved in accumulating Spell Counters by generating them in ridiculously large numbers' date=' rendering any other Spell Counter strategy irrelevant and eliminating the need for any sort of planning. This was not a problem in the past, when Spell Counter decks simply took them as much-needed support, but the new Spell Counter effects have enough strength that it becomes a serious reduction in the level of skill in the game now that more strategies are available and the rewards have increased.

 

This is actually a rare case where a Semi-Limit would actually be appropriate, as the strength of Toon Table of Contents' self-combo depends entirely on the number of copies available. Being able to fetch another Spell once is not a problem, as we can see from cards like Arms Hole that can do so; it is the ability to activate a full three Spells for the price of one that is the real problem here. Hence, your Semi-Limited list should consist entirely of Toon Table of Contents.

[/quote']

[Tabris]

Roxas:

 

Remember your thread?

 

It seems easy to persuade Phantom Roxas to do something simply by getting a one or two people to insist on it, so let's have a little fun by advocating that he Semi-Limit Toon Table of Contents on the grounds that it combos with itself and is too abusable with the new Spell Counter support, or something like that.

 

You know you want to.

 

Crab Helmet PM'd the following to me, and posted that. I must admit it was a stunning suit of genius.

 

We just pulled a fast one on you.

[Flame Dragon]

Why is Heavy Storm banned? It punishes your opponent for over exerting their spell and traps' date=' which can allow it to stay at 1.

 

Why isn't Gyzarus banned? Gyzarus, while being theme-specific, is easy to summon, generates a nice bit of advantage and can allow an easy summon of Heraklinos which can then put the person facing Heraklinos into a hard to get out of predicament. For this it should be at 0.

 

While Jinzo does invalidates traps it also prevents you from using traps which could come at some cost. He can also punish your opponent for being overly reliant on traps. Also, don't people only run around 5 traps to begin with? If this was the case then Jinzo's impact wouldn't be that great. Still I guess Royal Decree can do every thing Jinzo can but in a less damaging way.

Ctrl+F: Toon Table of Contests

 

Text not found.

 

Care to explain?

Why should it be at 1?

Another problem with this list is that Toon Table of Contents is still at 3. Any fool who's taken a look at the new Spell Counter support can see the problem with this. Toon Table of Contents' combo with itself removes all skill involved in accumulating Spell Counters by generating them in ridiculously large numbers' date=' rendering any other Spell Counter strategy irrelevant and eliminating the need for any sort of planning. This was not a problem in the past, when Spell Counter decks simply took them as much-needed support, but the new Spell Counter effects have enough strength that it becomes a serious reduction in the level of skill in the game now that more strategies are available and the rewards have increased.

 

This is actually a rare case where a Semi-Limit would actually be appropriate, as the strength of Toon Table of Contents' self-combo depends entirely on the number of copies available. Being able to fetch another Spell once is not a problem, as we can see from cards like Arms Hole that can do so; it is the ability to activate a full three Spells for the price of one that is the real problem here. Hence, your Semi-Limited list should consist entirely of Toon Table of Contents.

[/quote']

I love Crab. :P

 

Tabris, why did you spoil it?

[CrabHelmet]

Oh, there goes that wascally Crab Helmet and his trolling again.

[Tabris]

I love Crab. :P

 

Tabris' date=' why did you spoil it?

[/quote']

 

Mine bad; I can't keep mine brain shut.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

That, or the two of you are making it up for the sake of eliciting a reaction - either way, it'll elicit the same reaction and gain the same for us, so we'll win either way.

[Phantom Roxas]

Also, I never said what TToC should be at, I simply said it needs to be on the banlist.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Also' date=' I never said what TToC should be at, I simply said it needs to be on the banlist.

[/quote']

 

No it shouldn't. You got trolled by Crab and now you're trying to back pedal to save face.

[Phantom Roxas]

Like Atem said, their probably just making it up.

[Megaworm]

so this list is lies? CyDra can still rape stalling decks? Ultimate Offering is still at one and i can still flood the field with annoyingly powerful cards and Gemini Monsters don't have to wait? Dark Passion Play is an album by Nightwish!?

[Flame Dragon]

Like Atem said' date=' their probably just making it up.

[/quote']

No, we're not.

 

And, just so you know I'm telling the truth,

[CrabHelmet]

Like Atem said' date=' their probably just making it up.

[/quote']

 

I see nothing in Atem's post indicating that such a case is probable; he merely states that it is possible.

 

It happens to not be the case here. Go back to the original topic and look at Tabris's first post after the post where I insisted that you Semi TToC; if I remember correctly, it somewhat implies that we're pulling shenanigans.

[Phantom Roxas]

Flame Dragon supplied actually proof, so that's all I need. However, I noticed you also PM'd PikaPerson01 about this, but she didn't get involved in your trolling too much, if at all. That shows that she's more mature than the Super Mod of TCG. That's sad, actually. I only change because like you said, you give valid reasons.

 

Side Note: Flame Dragon, you have about 4,000 PMs? Wow.

[Flame Dragon]

Flame Dragon supplied actually proof' date=' so that's all I need. However, I noticed you also PM'd PikaPerson01 about this, but she didn't get involved in your trolling too much, if at all. That shows that she's more mature than the Super Mod of TCG. That's sad, actually. I only change because like you said, you give valid reasons.

 

Side Note: Flame Dragon, you have about 4,000 PMs? Wow.

[/quote']

This may sound stupid, but when did Pika say she was a she?

 

I think I would have had 4000 if I didn't delete a nice bit of my older ones. Most of those are just me and TAG having random conversations.

[CrabHelmet]

Flame Dragon supplied actually proof' date=' so that's all I need. However, I noticed you also PM'd PikaPerson01 about this, but she didn't get involved in your trolling too much, if at all. That shows that she's more mature than the Super Mod of TCG. That's sad, actually. I only change because like you said, you give valid reasons.

[/quote']

 

In addition to being funny, it should also serve as a lesson to you not to fall victim to an ipse dixit. You must be able to judge the validity of an argument in order to ascertain whether you should believe it; the identity of the argument's author is irrelevant. It seems to be a much-needed lesson, since you were making changes to your list whenever anyone with over 800 posts made a suggestion.

 

Also, even more irony.

[Phantom Roxas]

Flame Dragon supplied actually proof' date=' so that's all I need. However, I noticed you also PM'd PikaPerson01 about this, but she didn't get involved in your trolling too much, if at all. That shows that she's more mature than the Super Mod of TCG. That's sad, actually. I only change because like you said, you give valid reasons.

 

Side Note: Flame Dragon, you have about 4,000 PMs? Wow.

[/quote']

This may sound stupid, but when did Pika say she was a she?

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/thread-85977.html

 

Flame Dragon supplied actually proof' date=' so that's all I need. However, I noticed you also PM'd PikaPerson01 about this, but she didn't get involved in your trolling too much, if at all. That shows that she's more mature than the Super Mod of TCG. That's sad, actually. I only change because like you said, you give valid reasons.

[/quote']

 

In addition to being funny, it should also serve as a lesson to you not to fall victim to an ipse dixit. You must be able to judge the validity of an argument in order to ascertain whether you should believe it; the identity of the argument's author is irrelevant. It seems to be a much-needed lesson, since you were making changes to your list whenever anyone with over 800 posts made a suggestion.

 

Also, even more irony.

 

Yes, it does serve as a good lesson.

 

*Decides to change the subject*

 

If this was the current banlist, what would be the meta?

[Guest PikaPerson01]

However' date=' I noticed you also PM'd PikaPerson01 about this, but she didn't get involved in your trolling too much, if at all. That shows that she's more mature than the Super Mod of TCG. That's sad, actually.[/quote']

 

Wait wait wait! 0_0

You thought I was SERIOUS about the banning of Solemn Judgment, Lonefire Blossom and Injection Fairy Lily!?

[CrabHelmet]

However' date=' I noticed you also PM'd PikaPerson01 about this, but she didn't get involved in your trolling too much, if at all. That shows that she's more mature than the Super Mod of TCG. That's sad, actually.[/quote']

 

Wait wait wait! 0_0

You thought I was SERIOUS about the banning of Solemn Judgment, Lonefire Blossom and Injection Fairy Lily!?

 

Why, yes, he did. Even after being shown that people were having a go at him and that you were contacted as part of this, he still never doubted you.

 

And that's terrible.

 

If I remember correctly, you were even involved in the TToC part of things by playing the role of Knowledgeable Person Who Starts Out Skeptical But Becomes Convinced.

[Phantom Roxas]

It was pretty much "Request a change" at first now that I think about it, but after PikaPerson01 decided to say this:

 

So' date=' all you need is a group of people telling you you're wrong and you'll immediately change your mind? Good to know.

[/quote']

 

This seemed like an insult, so I immediately tried to, as Pika says, "back pedalled to save face".

 

Notice how I didn't post at all by the time there was a third page, but before that I ignored Pika's "joke" about banning Lonefire Blossom and Injection Fairy Lily, instead only saying that Solemn Judgment should be Limited.

 

Am I the only one who notices that we're spamming up this topic? I know it sounds like a way to get out of you throwing my banlist at my face, but still.

 

The only reason I didn't doubt Pika was because I did not notice that she had ganged up in your little troll group.

 

As a reward for ganging up on me, which is actually shameful in Crab's case, you will all receive a canary.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

I can't believe that someone who wasn't me actually did a halfway-decent job of teaching someone on YCM about the problem of ipse dixit.

 

I'm genuinely happy about this.

[Phantom Roxas]

I looked it up, so consider that a fully-decent job of teaching me.