[DISC] Overpowered Monster

[Bakura Vessal]

Simulation of duel

 

Dark has no cards on the field and 6 cards in his hand, I have one card in face down defence mode, and 3 traps face down.

 

"Muhahhahahah, first I take down your spells and traps with hevey storm, and then fuse togeather all the Blue-Eyes in my hand, to summon Blue-Eyes Ulterment Dragon (ATK 4500), and then tribute him for Garzett (ATK 9000) and now I attack your face down, you lose.

 

Albus flips up Man-eater Bug, "Nooooo, I wasted all those cards for this, and my plan gets foild!!!"

 

"Bloody n00bs." Albus mutters under his breath.

 

 

Lol

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Or they aren't as dumb as you and focus on removing the face-down monster.

 

Oh, care to explain how destroying a face-down apparently wins you the game too?

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

or yopu can just piercing it you would win anyway.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Yeah, Albus, when I was talking about effects that would be waiting to rip this apart in competitive duels, I wasn't talking about Man-Eater Bug. And Garzett doesn't have a built-in piercing effect, and if it did Man-Eater Bug wouldn't stop you from losing.

 

Corporal, how do they "focus on removing the facedown" if they have 3 BEWDs, Poly, Heavy, and Garzett? Their error was not building a proper Deck, not not removing the facedown monster.

 

The point is, if you're going into a competitive torunament and wasting cards to get a high lolATK'd Garzett, you'll lose.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

yes you can do it better with....4 cards in hand....

GMG, Heavy, Dragon's mirror, Nobleman or any removal....

 

Oh right When I talked about percing I meant give him the piercing hability

[Saturn of Elemia]

Back when Cyber Dragon wasn't limited, it was quite easy to get out a high ATK Garzett.

 

Even back when ARA wasn't limited and Demise OTK was the deck to use, people would offer the Doom Dozer they summoned after getting Demise out for Garzett for that lovely OTK. (However, most people preferred to use Megamorph on Doom Dozer instead)

 

However, those days have passed. Now I use cards like Gigantes and Fusilier Dragon to get out a decent Garzett.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Cards that give too much easy, high attack for too little of a cost are banworthy.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Great Maju Garzett however is not banworthy because getting a high enough ATK monster to make use of Garzett's effect and Tributing it for Garzett isn't worth it today. Especially once it gets Solemned/PWWB'd/Bottomless'd/Torrential'd/Necro Guardna'd, Threatening'd, Waboku'd, Book'd, or E-Con'd and then vaporized next turn with any random Spell or Effect. No to mention the same could happen to the Tribute Fodder for it.

 

And as long as your opponent has only Defense Position monsters, this can't do any damage at all, and gets vaporized next turn easily. If your opponent's good then you should be having huge difficulty summoning Garzett, let alone OTKing them with it.

 

If someone gets damaged by Garzett then they fully deserve it, Garzett's not bad for the game, it ain't banworthy.

[Lemniscate]

Great Maju Garzett however is not banworthy because getting a high enough ATK monster to make use of Garzett's effect and Tributing it for Garzett isn't worth it today. Especially once it gets Solemned/PWWB'd/Bottomless'd/Torrential'd/Necro Guardna'd' date=' Threatening'd, Waboku'd, Book'd, or E-Con'd and then vaporized next turn with any random Spell or Effect. No to mention the same could happen to the Tribute Fodder for it.

 

And as long as your opponent has only Defense Position monsters, this can't do any damage at all, and gets vaporized next turn easily. If your opponent's good then you should be having huge difficulty summoning Garzett, let alone OTKing them with it.

 

If someone gets damaged by Garzett then they fully deserve it, Garzett's not bad for the game, it ain't banworthy.

[/quote']

 

this.

 

 

Cards that give too much easy' date=' high attack for too little of a cost are banworthy.

[/quote']

 

only if those cards also have an effect that keeps them on the field, or helps them attack. (i.e. Cyber Twin Dragon) in this case, Garzett has nothing, just a beatstick that leaves the field quickly after hitting the field.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Eh. Well, you people forget about Chimeratech.

[CrabHelmet]

only if those cards also have an effect that keeps them on the field' date=' or helps them attack. (i.e. Cyber Twin Dragon) in this case, Garzett has nothing, just a beatstick that leaves the field quickly after hitting the field.

[/quote']

 

Blue-Eyes Zombie Dragon

[LIGHT/Zombie/Normal/8/8000/8000]

Pretend I wrote some clever flavour text here!

 

I see no effect that keeps this on the field. I see no effect that helps this attack.

 

I still see a banworthy card.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Eh. Well' date=' you people forget about Chimeratech.

[/quote']

 

No.

 

only if those cards also have an effect that keeps them on the field' date=' or helps them attack. (i.e. Cyber Twin Dragon) in this case, Garzett has nothing, just a beatstick that leaves the field quickly after hitting the field.

[/quote']

 

Blue-Eyes Zombie Dragon

[LIGHT/Zombie/Normal/8/8000/8000]

Pretend I wrote some clever flavour text here!

 

I see no effect that keeps this on the field. I see no effect that helps this attack.

 

I still see a banworthy card.

 

That's because this "Blue-Eyes Zombie Dragon" can be Summoned in any way you want, easily, since it's a Zombie and you can just pop it out, no restricting effect or anything to stop you from Special Summoning it. Garzett however only works when he's Tribute Summoned, and to do this you lose major card advantage, and your beatstick ain't gonna last too long.

 

Chimeratech Overdragon isn't banworthy for some of the same reasons as Garzett, it's an easy to remove beatstick which costs you major card advantage (n00ks ur feedl), and the chances of it winning automatically the level of today's competitive tournaments and events is really low. That's why it isn't run, that's why it isn't banworthy.

[CrabHelmet]

today's competitive tournaments

 

I skimmed your post, saw this phrase, and concluded that whatever you said wasn't worth reading.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

today's competitive tournaments

 

I skimmed your post' date=' saw this phrase, and concluded that whatever you said wasn't worth reading.

[/quote']

He seems to think that's the way to argue every point of a card's worth >>;;

 

Chimeratech falls under the category that was given. It does not protect itself. It does allow itself to attack multiple times, but you don't need that effect. I don't think anyone has really used this effect in Chimeratech OTK when it was very popular. What you really are looking for is a direct attack with 8000+ ATK.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

If you want to duel 6-year-olds with some Mechanical Snail/Chimeratech Billy Deck then I'm not stopping you, but competitive tournaments are where the challenges are at, and it's nice to have a challenge, not to mention you win stuff.

 

This is aside from the point, the standard to which we (YCM TCGers) decide whether a card is good enough is based on how it plays out in serious competition.

 

If you're able to Summon a Chimeratech and hit them for a direct 8000+ with it, then your opponent REALLY deserves it, there are so many ways they can prevent something like this that these days it's an insult to lose to a ChimeraTech deck type.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

If you want to duel 6-year-olds with some Mechanical Snail/Chimeratech Billy Deck then I'm not stopping you' date=' but competitive tournaments are where the challenge's at, and it's nice to have a challenge, not to mention you win stuff.

 

This is aside from the point, the standard to which we decide whether a card is good enough is based on how it plays out in serious competition.

[/quote']

 

I thought this topic was about whether or not a card was bannable or not, and not an argument of what would do well in this terrible meta.

[CrabHelmet]

Wait, is Dark Edo Phoenix arguing that Chimeratech should remain legal?

 

That would be fun with 3 Future Fusion and 3 Overload Fusion.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

They're directly related Pika, if a card isn't coming anywhere near to meta-level play anywhere, it's probably not going to kill the game if it ain't banned.

 

Crab: Even if Future and Overload were Unlimited, Chimeratech Decks would have more than a match with all the Deck types out there today. Chimeratech isn't the HAX! it was way back when it was released. With Future and Overload at 1, Chimera's way out of the picture, as it is.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

They're directly related Pika' date=' if a card isn't coming anywhere near to meta-level play anywhere, it's probably not going to kill the game if it ain't banned.

[/quote']

 

I'm not saying the Great Maju Gazarret is public enemy number one, and should be banned before other, greater threats to the metagame hit the list. However, the argument of is less broken then therefore is not bannble just doesn't fly well with me, ya' dig?

[CrabHelmet]

I heard that Chaos Sorcerer is less broken than Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the End, and that it wouldn't be powerful enough to kill the game if it were unbanned tomorrow and no other changes were made to the banlist.

 

Let's put Chaos Sorcerer at 3.

 

Oh, and Pot of Greed would be used, but it wouldn't make one deck dominate or kill them meta either. Let's unban that too.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Cards like Chaos Sorcerer have different purposes than giant beatsticks, and how're you getting that me saying Chimeratech and Garzett ain't banworthy is the equivalent of letting 3 Chaos Sorcerers and Pot of Greed back out?

 

It's not like Pot of Greed wasn't or wouldn't be used in competitive tournaments. Pot of Greed wouldn't make a certain decktype dominate, it would just augment every decktype, which is bad, since the decks of today need watering down.

[CrabHelmet]

Cards like Chaos Sorcerer have different purposes than giant beatsticks' date=' and how're you getting that me saying Chimeratech and Garzett ain't banworthy is the equivalent of letting 3 Chaos Sorcerers and Pot of Greed back out?

[/quote']

 

Yes. The rules of banlist construction that you described in an attempt to justify keeping Great Maju Garzett and Chimeratech Overdragon around also apply to Chaos Sorcerer, as has already been shown. Furthermore, they will continue to do so unless you openly acknowledge that the rules only apply when it is convenient for you.

 

Pot of Greed was thrown in for added facetiousness.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Chaos Sorcerer isn't a card you're going to pump up to large ATK and kill your opponent with, they're cards which simply generate massive card advantage with little cost, the Special Summon already makes Chaos a CyDra which you don't even have to be backed into a corner to use and has 200 extra ATK and has a removal effect thrown in.

 

Chaos Sorcerer is more banworthy than a card like Chimera because Chimera is a risky last resort that either works, with which it has low chances of doing in today's competitive play, or kills you.

 

Chaos on the other hand, is just solid advantage for you, a free 2300 ATK remover right away, doesn't even cost a Normal Summon...not risky, no drawback, no card advantage loss.

 

This is what I mean when I say Chaos has different purposes than giant beatsticks.

[Lemniscate]

exactly, Overdragon and Garzett don't relate to Chaos Sorcerer. The first two are just beatsticks with nothing else. Where as Chaos Sorcerer is an easy to summon, no advantage lost card.

although the reasoning from Pheonix's post before is incorrect.

Overdragon and Garzett aren't bannable due to effects that cost you card advantage, and do not give that much in return.

Pot of Greed and Chaos do not fit that.

[CrabHelmet]

exactly' date=' Overdragon and Garzett don't relate to Chaos Sorcerer. The first two are just beatsticks with nothing else. Where as Chaos Sorcerer is an easy to summon, no advantage lost card.

[/quote']

 

The point is not that they are identical but that DEP's logic - which says that a card is only banworthy if it would dominate the current meta - doesn't hold up when one attempts to apply it consistently.

 

Overdragon and Garzett aren't bannable due to effects that cost you card advantage' date='

[/quote']

 

The former is a +0; the latter is a -1.

 

Also, advantage is significantly less important when OTK's are involved.

 

and do not give that much in return.

 

They win the duel. What more do you want in return' date=' a match win?

 

Pot of Greed and Chaos do not fit that.

 

My Name Is Evil:

 

Proud bearer of a Master's Degree in Missing The Point.