Wizarus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 It shouldn't be banned. It needs luck' date=' and YGO frowns upon that.[/quote'] Why is this Limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonzord Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 hang out with people who aren't time-travelers' date=' aliens, and espers.[/quote'] Unless they're just not telling you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 hang out with people who aren't time-travelers' date=' aliens, and espers.[/quote'] Unless they're just not telling you. Well see, what had happened was. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 As always Crab proves provides incredible logic and insight into the game. I would have agreed with Wolf being bannable with it being a skill less beatstick that comes from no where. I did however view Celestia as a themed Monarch. My mistake their is she is a more powerful version of one then I was giving her credit for. Hmm' date=' I never thought about Celestia like that. However, I do think it is fine @ 1.[/quote']Putting it at one changes nothing really. When it comes in it can easily shift control of the game. Not only that, but because of how people play LS they make it a point to reuse any LS that might get milled so even at 1 LS have an easy time making, and remaking, use of Celestia. Crab, I'm interested to know what you would view as an ideal ban list right now. So any notes you might want to shair with what new cards may be on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Armed_Zombie Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Crab' date=' I'm interested to know what you would view as an ideal ban list right now. So any notes you might want to shair with what new cards may be on it?[/quote'] Isn't Crab a fan of the 3/0 list? Either way I would like to see one also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Crab' date=' I'm interested to know what you would view as an ideal ban list right now. So any notes you might want to shair with what new cards may be on it?[/quote'] Doesn't Crab have orgasms to the 3/0 list? Either way I would like to see one also. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hmm' date=' I never thought about Celestia like that. However, I do think it is fine @ 1.[/quote'] It is very difficult to argue with this sort of logic. There's really nothing I can say in response to this, other than "think again". 1 Celestia does not make sense - especially since one of the biggest problems with her deck is that it throws the game into chance, and Limiting the game-winning monster just makes the luck of the draw even more important. It shouldn't be banned. It needs luck' date=' and YGO frowns upon that.[/quote'] Perhaps I should clarify here: There are different kinds of Luck-based cards in Yu-Gi-Oh!. Some are tolerable, even if their lucky effects are broken, because they just aren't good enough to have a significant impact on the game. Cup of Ace is a good example of this; even though Luck Is Not A Cost extremist ideology would see it as being indistinguishable from Pot of Greed, it just doesn't throw the game into a game of chance because it sucks too much to do much of anything. Lightlords are not in the same boat as Cup of Ace; they're top-tier meta. Anyhow, you're still a fool for giving "It needs luck" as your justification. hang out with people who aren't time-travelers' date=' aliens, and espers.[/quote'] Unless they're just not telling you. No way. I lead my club all over the city to find paranormal activity, and we didn't come across anything, so I can't be hanging out with them or they'd have found something. I did have a cool dream where there was at school and everything was gray and there was this big blue giant, though... Crab' date=' I'm interested to know what you would view as an ideal ban list right now. So any notes you might want to shair with what new cards may be on it?[/quote'] Off the top of my head, here are some card positions I'd like to see: Allure of Darkness - 1Black Whirlwind - 1Demise - 3F.G.D. - 0Gold Sarcophagus - 3Magician of Faith - 0Reasoning - 0Tribe-Infecting Virus - 3Tsukuyomi - 3 However, it would be boring for me to just post a bunch of card positions, so I've decided to make things more interesting. To do that, I've thrown a mistake in there somewhere: At least one of these positions is a lie. At least one of these nine listed card positions does not accurately reflect my current beliefs. Have fun with that one, people-who-just-nod-their-heads-in-agreement-with-me. Crab' date=' I'm interested to know what you would view as an ideal ban list right now. So any notes you might want to shair with what new cards may be on it?[/quote'] Isn't Crab a fan of the 3/0 list? Either way I would like to see one also. You say "the" 3/0 list as if there exists a single canonical 3/0 list that all the cool people follow. While I'm a fan of 3/0 ideology, there are as many 3/0 lists out there as there are people who support 3/0; there isn't just one perfect list that we agree on, since we spend most of our time disagreeing with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Csent Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I am going to guess that either Tribe-Infecting Virus or Magician of Faith are the opposite that they should be. Then again, you seem to like Reasoning a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Shocker Android Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Demise - 3Magician of Faith - 0Tribe-Infecting Virus - 3 I'm pretty sure faith is the mistake since it's already at 0 TIV and Demise aren't very Crabbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Celestia and Wulf should both be banned. Why? If Crab says something' date=' it's truth until proven otherwise. Everyone on YCM knows that.[/quote'] Were you not around the time Crab decided to dick around and promote ridiculous bans and unlimits just to see how many idiots would follow him around still proclaim him the messiah? Lol, Oh man that must have been hysterical:lol: Also, FDG should be 3. Tribe, Demise, Tsukuyomi at 0Golden should probably be at 2, to prevent Necroface from being too broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Off the top of my head' date=' here are some card positions I'd like to see: Allure of Darkness - 1Black Whirlwind - 1Demise - 3F.G.D. - 0Gold Sarcophagus - 3Magician of Faith - 0Reasoning - 0Tribe-Infecting Virus - 3Tsukuyomi - 3 However, it would be boring for me to just post a bunch of card positions, so I've decided to make things more interesting. To do that, I've thrown a mistake in there somewhere: [b']At least one of these positions is a lie.[/b] At least one of these nine listed card positions does not accurately reflect my current beliefs. Have fun with that one, people-who-just-nod-their-heads-in-agreement-with-me. Well i'm not one of the people who agrees with everything you say, but i'll take a shot at it anyway. Lies: Tribe-Infecting VirusDemiseAllureMagician of FaithFGD True: Gold SarcTsukuyomiWhirlwindReasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuh Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Off the top of my head' date=' here are some card positions I'd like to see: Allure of Darkness - 1Black Whirlwind - 1Demise - 3F.G.D. - 0Gold Sarcophagus - 3Magician of Faith - 0Reasoning - 0Tribe-Infecting Virus - 3Tsukuyomi - 3 However, it would be boring for me to just post a bunch of card positions, so I've decided to make things more interesting. To do that, I've thrown a mistake in there somewhere: [b']At least one of these positions is a lie.[/b] At least one of these nine listed card positions does not accurately reflect my current beliefs. Have fun with that one, people-who-just-nod-their-heads-in-agreement-with-me. Well i'm not one of the people who agrees with everything you say, but i'll take a shot at it anyway. Lies: Tribe-Infecting VirusDemiseAllureMagician of FaithFGD True: Gold SarcTsukuyomiWhirlwindReasoning Nope wrong TRUEBlack Whirlwind - 1Gold Sarcophagus - 3Tsukuyomi - 3 LIESF.G.D. - 0Tribe-Infecting Virus - 3Demise - 3Reasoning - 0Magician of Faith - 0Allure of Darkness - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Off the top of my head' date=' here are some card positions I'd like to see: Allure of Darkness - 1Black Whirlwind - 1Demise - 3F.G.D. - 0Gold Sarcophagus - 3Magician of Faith - 0Reasoning - 0Tribe-Infecting Virus - 3Tsukuyomi - 3 However, it would be boring for me to just post a bunch of card positions, so I've decided to make things more interesting. To do that, I've thrown a mistake in there somewhere: [b']At least one of these positions is a lie.[/b] At least one of these nine listed card positions does not accurately reflect my current beliefs. Have fun with that one, people-who-just-nod-their-heads-in-agreement-with-me. Well i'm not one of the people who agrees with everything you say, but i'll take a shot at it anyway. Lies: Tribe-Infecting VirusDemiseAllureMagician of FaithFGD True: Gold SarcTsukuyomiWhirlwindReasoning Nope wrong TRUEBlack Whirlwind - 1Gold Sarcophagus - 3Tsukuyomi - 3 LIESF.G.D. - 0Tribe-Infecting Virus - 3Demise - 3Reasoning - 0Magician of Faith - 0Allure of Darkness - 1 Tsukuyomi has a lockdown that prevents anyone from drawing cards. It should not be at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 The card that stopped the opponent from drawing has itself been banned, so that is not an issue. Reasoning and FGD, i'm a little bit unsure about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Celestia and Wulf should both be banned. Why? If Crab says something' date=' it's truth until proven otherwise. Everyone on YCM knows that.[/quote'] Were you not around the time Crab decided to dick around and promote ridiculous bans and unlimits just to see how many idiots would follow him around still proclaim him the messiah? Sarcasm dood. Nobody's even paying attention to the 2nd half of my post which effectively agreed with Crabby bumpkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesCrow Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 As eloquently typed as Crab Helmet's post/rant was...it wasn't entirely truthful. It made a lot of assumptions with little or no basis. Yugioh is a game that should be played how the player wants it to be played, not how you or I want them to play it. Some people like to play luck-heavy decks, while others like control based or even stall based. Who are we to decide what's right and what's wrong. The only job konami has is making more cards, and using the banlist to take away from OVER THE TOP unfairness. The only problem with LS is that they were made to be luck based, and instead became powerful and consistent. Milling would be a great drawback, but...when milling becomes a good thing, you have monsters with TWO good effects. Wulf shouldn't be touched, he does require lucky play, but a good player knows when to take a chance, and how to deal with a bad draw (wulf). Celestia, however can go#@*) a @*)(ing *!)#$! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I think that many people fail to understand why Wulf needs to be banned, because unlike Celestia, he is not in numeric form. With Wulf, you have to do a bit more work. Say you run a typical Lightsworn deck with 50 cards. You draw 6 cards in the beginning of the duel, so you're left with 44 cards. Out of the cards you've drawn, you have at a most a 6.66% of drawing Wulf. (At most because the more you draw the higher chance you're getting to Wulf.) Let’s also say you mill 3 cards per turn. If you don't do anything else to tamper with your deck, you will draw 11 additional cards (at maximum). 44-11= 30, which means 30/50 cards, or 60% of your deck is going to be milled. This is not the average amount of cards milled per turn, since I'm sure alot of people mill 6 cards per turn, but I was just using 3 as an example. In this scenario, Wulf will be milled most likely 2 times and drawn once. It's already been stated that Wulf is a plus 1 when milled. This, in fact, is not a problem, since Wulf is a dead in your hand right? Wrong. The problem arises when Wulf is used with Lumina/Solar Recharge/etc. Wulf now becomes a +0, not a -1. So it's basically a +0, with a 60% chance of being a +1. That's the same as Allure of Darkness with a 60% chance of turning into Pot of Greed; too broken to be left at 3, 2, or in my opinion 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Dahlia Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Ugh... Here we go... Celestia is theme specific. With pretty terrible stats compared to monarchs. And a good effect. LIKE monarchs, she must be tribute summoned, BUT WITH A LS MONSTER. In that case, limit caius and kuraz too >_> Wulf... Now the LS haters are taking it too far. WULF!? A LV4 MONSTER THAT MUST BE SPECIAL SUMMONED!? That's taking it too far. Seriously! You know what NEEDS to be limited? Larvae moth for it's epicness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Armed_Zombie Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I assume you read his reasons behind it? http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/thread-170209-page-2.html Second post on page 2 if you haven't :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Dahlia Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Explanation or not, it still rubs off as "sore loser" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Hyperion Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 JD should be banned. People who say otherwise must stop being a colossal moron. There's no reason for a field nuker with laughable easy summoning conditions should be limited, semi-limited or unlimited. Wulf needs to be banned because it turns any Foolish Burial and Lightsworn mill into an even more aggresive Cyber Dragon. Celestia is questionable. So far, I didn't found her too much of a problem, but that's only because I got my ass owned by JD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 As eloquently typed as Crab Helmet's post/rant was...it wasn't entirely truthful. It made a lot of assumptions with little or no basis. Yugioh is a game that should be played how the player wants it to be played' date=' not how you or I want them to play it. Some people like to play luck-heavy decks, while others like control based or even stall based. Who are we to decide what's right and what's wrong. The only job konami has is making more cards, and using the banlist to take away from OVER THE TOP unfairness. The only problem with LS is that they were made to be luck based, and instead became powerful and consistent. Milling would be a great drawback, but...when milling becomes a good thing, you have monsters with TWO good effects. Wulf shouldn't be touched, he does require lucky play, but a good player knows when to take a chance, and how to deal with a bad draw (wulf). Celestia, however can go#@*) a @*)(ing *!)#$![/quote'] Short version: Everything is subjective and we should never decide anything until it becomes obvious enough to be nigh-objective. Thanks, but I don't subscribe to your sit-there-and-do-nothing-until-even-a-three-year-old-can-see-the-problem theory of banlist construction. I think that many people fail to understand why Wulf needs to be banned' date=' because unlike Celestia, he is not in numeric form. With Wulf, you have to do a bit more work.[/quote'] Number-crunching really isn't needed for Wulf, but if you want to do calculations, whatever floats your boat works. Say you run a typical Lightsworn deck with 50 cards. Typical Lightsworn decks run 50 cards now? When did this happen? You draw 6 cards in the beginning of the duel' date=' so you're left with 44 cards. Out of the cards you've drawn, you have at a most a 6.66% of drawing Wulf. (At most because the more you draw the higher chance you're getting to Wulf.)[/quote'] Eh!? Even assuming you only run 1 copy of Wulf and a 50-card deck, you still have a 12% chance of drawing him in your opening hand. Let’s also say you mill 3 cards per turn. If you don't do anything else to tamper with your deck' date=' you will draw 11 additional cards (at maximum). [b']44-11= 30[/b] I'm stopping here. Seriously, never attempt to do calculations again. ANYONE WHO EVER ASKS FOR ANYTHING TO BE BANNED IS A SORE LOSER LRN2PLAY BETTER U N00B ohohoho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Berserker- Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 About Crab's banlist post, I think, not like most of you, that his opinion in banning FGD is probably true. Not because it's a giant beatstick, but because it turns Future Fusion+Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon into a powerful engine, and those 2 cards (specially Future Fusion) are not such a big problem without the card that makes them work together. With that logic, If my previous reasoning is true, then probably Crab has a place for Chimeratech in his banlist too.Remembering an old post of Crab, I think the Magician of Faith at 0 is a lie, but as he said, he changes his mind at any moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 About Crab's banlist post' date=' I think, not like most of you, that his opinion in banning FGD is probably true. Not because it's a giant beatstick, but because it turns Future Fusion+Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon into a powerful engine, and those 2 cards (specially Future Fusion) are not such a big problem without the card that makes them work together.[/quote']Its because FGD doesnt have any specific Fusion Material monsters. If it had at least 1(maybe 2) Specific Fusion Material monsters, then it might not be as broken. With that logic' date=' If my previous reasoning is true, then probably Crab has a place for Chimeratech in his banlist too.[/quote']Its simple: Ban Cyber Dragon Orace of the Sun and Vice Dragon can be a legit-substitute for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkest Hour Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 The only reason people think Wulf or Celestia is overpowered is because they are Lightsworn. Wulf has 2100 and can come out of nowhere for free and go "IMMA MEME" and beat you to death with furry power. otherwise, he is useless. Let them waste their Foolish Burial on Wulf for all I care. If he was 1900 or 1800 people would have less problems with him. Celestia is a necessity for Lightsworn with or without Judgment, because every other archetype in the competitive scheme has removal or some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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