Stardust Dragon

[Flame Dragon]

4 synchros as a whole changed the ways decks have to be built' date=' and this is one of its biggest reasons.

[/quote']

How is this bad? As a game gets older things will always change. Yes a lot of the early synchros were poorly made, but just look at the ones we've been getting as of late. They aren't easy to get out and don't have stupidly powerful effects or stats.

 

Stardust is 1 of my heavy hitters and I paid good money for it. I'll be ticked if this card gets banned. its fine at 3.

I love this argument.

 

Who runs Stardust in 3's anyways. Most people run 1-2 copies in their extra deck. Unless you are doing an assault mode deck.

You only need one to get the job done.

 

making OP Synchro's is retarded.

[Olbigatory post about how Konami should fire there R&D department' date= and hire someone like Crab]

Ii would be too good if Crab worked for Konami

[byak]

3, it's perfectly fine.

 

Probably the only Synchro that can be used in a deck without Tuners.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

3, but if anything 2. i didnt work so hard to get 2 ultimates for nothing.

[Eury]

Should be banned for reasons I've already stated on YCM. I generates too much card advantage to be generic and left at 3.

 

But then Stardust Assault Mode becomes a Larvae Moth.

 

Then you run Larvae Dust beatdown.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

If you back Stardust with a couple of traps it gets nearly impossible for you to win unless you're running specific types of card in your deck. This forces people to run cards like Book of Moon, Compulsory Evacuation Device, Penguin Soldier or Dimensional Prison or lose. After a while this creates a meta where everyone's running the same optimal S/T lineup to deal with him.

 

2500 atk is high, he's easy to bring out, he has an amazing effect, he's cheap, he's generic and there's Starlight Road.

 

Let's at least put him at 1 like Goyo and then after a while ban him so that this game can evolve.

[morfowt]

you know, you could counter stardust with your own stardust. I just realized this.

[Wizarus]

3' date=' it's perfectly fine.

 

Probably the only Synchro that can be used in a deck without Tuners.

[/quote']

 

You've just stated one of the reasons why it should be banned.

 

3' date=' but if anything 2. i didnt work so hard to get 2 ultimates for nothing.

[/quote']

 

Putting a Synchro at 2 will do absolutely nothing.

 

If you back Stardust with a couple of traps it gets nearly impossible for you to win unless you're running specific types of card in your deck. This forces people to run cards like Book of Moon' date=' Compulsory Evacuation Device, Penguin Soldier or Dimensional Prison or lose. After a while this creates a meta where everyone's running the same optimal S/T lineup to deal with him.

 

2500 atk is high, he's easy to bring out, he has an amazing effect, he's cheap, he's generic and there's Starlight Road.

 

Let's at least put him at 1 like Goyo and then after a while ban him so that this game can evolve.

[/quote']

 

I agree with everything except for the last part. I don't see why certain cards like Goyo should stay at 1. If it should be banned, why not ban it immediately?

[ridiculosity]

IMo, it depends how many Stardust Roads you can have in a deck. If you can have all three (SR), only one should be allowed. If

[Psycho Shocker Android]

3' date=' it's perfectly fine.

 

Probably the only Synchro that can be used in a deck without Tuners.

[/quote']

 

You've just stated one of the reasons why it should be banned.

 

3' date=' but if anything 2. i didnt work so hard to get 2 ultimates for nothing.

[/quote']

 

Putting a Synchro at 2 will do absolutely nothing.

 

If you back Stardust with a couple of traps it gets nearly impossible for you to win unless you're running specific types of card in your deck. This forces people to run cards like Book of Moon' date=' Compulsory Evacuation Device, Penguin Soldier or Dimensional Prison or lose. After a while this creates a meta where everyone's running the same optimal S/T lineup to deal with him.

 

2500 atk is high, he's easy to bring out, he has an amazing effect, he's cheap, he's generic and there's Starlight Road.

 

Let's at least put him at 1 like Goyo and then after a while ban him so that this game can evolve.

[/quote']

 

I agree with everything except for the last part. I don't see why certain cards like Goyo should stay at 1. If it should be banned, why not ban it immediately?

 

You see this is so the game doesn't die. Cards need some play (this is a game after all) and then they can rotate. The banlist is like some extra rules to YGO. Stardust is the Yusei boss and I do beleive we need him to sell this game to casual players (like the heroes and BEWD or DM). Before it goes, players need some warning (limiting a card is a warning) and then when it's finally banned, sure some people like it, some may not but at least it wasn't release already banned and we got some moments to remember with the card. If you kill a card right away people who got 3 copies or more will be pissed and might quit the game. Losing 1 or 2 copy isn't bad since you can at least trade some before they get banned for good.

 

Sometimes though a card is so problematic it requires urgent banning cause it's detrimental to the game, but right now Stardust and Goyo aren't top priority. OH YEAH I'M SPEAKING OF JD AND DAD HERE!

[-Griffin]

The banlist is like some extra rules to YGO.

 

You should have stuck to this point. It's insightful and interesting - and in my mind quite valid in this case.

 

At the least, unbanned.

[Azuh]

Just running 1 Stardust Road is enough, while you have 3 Stardust in the Extra

[Killey]

Running 3 Stardust Dragon's just because of Starlight Road seems like a bad idea, in my opinion. Extra Deck Space is limited enough as is and it's hard enough to form an Extra Deck without having to leave out some cards. Running 3 Stardust just seems like a waste of precious extra deck space. At most you would want to main him in 2's but that's just me.

 

If you back Stardust with a couple of traps it gets nearly impossible for you to win unless you're running specific types of card in your deck. This forces people to run cards like Book of Moon' date=' Compulsory Evacuation Device, Penguin Soldier or Dimensional Prison or lose. After a while this creates a meta where everyone's running the same optimal S/T lineup to deal with him.[/quote']

 

Stardust in itself was an evolution to the meta and forced people to use different cards to handle the new situation. This isn't a bad thing at all and your comment that everyone uses the same S/T to deal with him is moot cause prior to this meta everyone else was using the same S/T line up to deal with whatever was the meta at the time. Sakuretetsu Armor's and Magic Cylinder use to be staple Trap Cards but don't see any play now because the meta has evolved. That's all Stardust and other Synchros have done. People need to stop viewing that as a bad thing because they can't get past the fact that their old favorite spell/trap cards no longer work in this meta or is not as effective as it was before.

 

Konami is not banning Stardust Dragon with the creation of Stardust Road or whatever that Trap is called. If Stardust Road is such an issue then that card needs to be dealt with not Stardust Dragon. Furthermore, Stardust alone was not why people were running CED, PWWB, Book of Moon, etc.. Most of those cards were used prior to him because they were just that good. Synchro monsters in general is what caused the return of Compulsory Evacuation Device as it was the ideal tech choice for Synchro's but in the end it's still seeing less play because the meta has moved on from that. However, that sort of evolution where such an old card now becomes a good tech choice isn't bad at all.

 

It's not getting banned at all since 1) it doesn't deserve it in the first place 2) it's pretty healthy for the meta when there are a ton of cards that give out generic destruction effects. Generic easy destruction effects is not healthy for the meta. A card that can force smarter plays on cards like Gyazrus, Icarus, or Torrential Tribute is definitely good. On a smaller extent it can limit plays on DAD and JD of course most people just get rid of Stardust before hand but it does provide that extra thought then a mindless drop. Of course, this is viewing in from today's metagame and in these cases you have to view the card in the current meta. It's one thing to say in a "proper" ban list DAD, JD, and other cards that force the creation of Stardust Dragon would be banned as well but be realistic. Konami aren't banning those cards in a long time so as long as they continue to be in play so will other cards.

[Flame Dragon]

Running 3 Stardust Dragon's just because of Starlight Road seems like a bad idea' date=' in my opinion. Extra Deck Space is limited enough as is and it's hard enough to form an Extra Deck without having to leave out some cards. Running 3 Stardust just seems like a waste of precious extra deck space. At most you would want to main him in 2's but that's just me.

 

If you back Stardust with a couple of traps it gets nearly impossible for you to win unless you're running specific types of card in your deck. This forces people to run cards like Book of Moon, Compulsory Evacuation Device, Penguin Soldier or Dimensional Prison or lose. After a while this creates a meta where everyone's running the same optimal S/T lineup to deal with him.

 

Stardust in itself was an evolution to the meta and forced people to use different cards to handle the new situation. This isn't a bad thing at all and your comment that everyone uses the same S/T to deal with him is moot cause prior to this meta everyone else was using the same S/T line up to deal with whatever was the meta at the time. Sakuretetsu Armor's and Magic Cylinder use to be staple Trap Cards but don't see any play now because the meta has evolved. That's all Stardust and other Synchros have done. People need to stop viewing that as a bad thing because they can't get past the fact that their old favorite spell/trap cards no longer work in this meta or is not as effective as it was before.

 

Furthermore, Stardust alone was not why people were running CED, PWWB, Book of Moon, etc.. Most of those cards were used prior to him because they were just that good. Synchro monsters in general is what caused the return of Compulsory Evacuation Device as it was the ideal tech choice for Synchro's but in the end it's still seeing less play because the meta has moved on from that. However, that sort of evolution where such an old card now becomes a good tech choice isn't bad at all.

 

It's not getting banned at all since 1) it doesn't deserve it in the first place 2) it's pretty healthy for the meta when there are a ton of cards that give out generic destruction effects. Generic easy destruction effects is not healthy for the meta. A card that can force smarter plays on cards like Gyazrus, Icarus, or Torrential Tribute is definitely good. On a smaller extent it can limit plays on DAD and JD of course most people just get rid of Stardust before hand but it does provide that extra thought then a mindless drop. Of course, this is viewing in from today's metagame and in these cases you have to view the card in the current meta. It's one thing to say in a "proper" ban list DAD, JD, and other cards that force the creation of Stardust Dragon would be banned as well but be realistic. Konami aren't banning those cards in a long time so as long as they continue to be in play so will other cards.

You seem to be basing a lot of your argument on this meta on. Note I said a good list meaning I don't care what Konami will do and won't, but what should be done.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Possible Limited because the 3/0 is retarded

 

Limiting a synchro is retarded. Broniac is not suddenly balanced just because it's at 1.

 

But you can no longer Summon a Brionac when you can't OTK just to get rid of some synchros and when you draw the stuff that you need for an OTK, summon a 2nd copy and win. You also don't have to worry about him if you BTH the 1st one.

 

And FW was talking about SDD. If you limit him, you can only play 1x SDD per duel (unless you use PoA) and you can't summon SDD normally in the same duel in which you have activated Road.

 

Stardust should be at 3 until Starlight Road comes. After that we should if it the card changes the game too much.

[Flame Dragon]

Stardust should be at 3 until Starlight Road comes. After that we should if it the card changes the game too much.

Last I check Starlight Road is already out in Japan and you can't forget the ban list is based on the meta over there.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Stardust should be at 3 until Starlight Road comes. After that we should if it the card changes the game too much.

Last I check Starlight Road is already out in Japan and you can't forget the ban list is based on the meta over there.

You said "god list" not Konami's list.

Do you have enough information for what Starlight Road is doing in Japan?

I'm sure that you don't.

I want to say that we need to wait 'till Road is released in the TCG to examine it.

[Flame Dragon]

Stardust should be at 3 until Starlight Road comes. After that we should if it the card changes the game too much.

Last I check Starlight Road is already out in Japan and you can't forget the ban list is based on the meta over there.

You said "god list" not Konami's list.

Do you have enough information for what Starlight Road is doing in Japan?

I'm sure that you don't.

I want to say that we need to wait 'till Road is released in the TCG to examine it.

Yes, but the ban list still comes from OCG cards meaning if Starlight Road were to change anything about Stardust it would have to be taken into account now.

 

And I do have some info on the Japanese meta, and from what I saw Starlight Road never came up.

[Killey]

If we look at Shriek's tournament deck listings then Starlight Road shows up in very few decks and when it does it shows up in 1's making it very inconsistent but sort of a contingency plan against JD or Icarus Attack.

 

You seem to be basing a lot of your argument on this meta on. Note I said a good list meaning I don't care what Konami will do and won't' date=' but what should be done.

[/quote']

 

Yes, I've already seen you say that but I find it pointless in trying to discuss what ifs. People have too many preconceived notions that they know exactly what's good for the meta when they clearly don't. I'm not trying to pick a fight here nor am I trying to atagonize yourself or anyone else on this forum. I'm also not claiming that I know what's good for the meta but I'd rather subjectively discuss about the ban list where it's actually applicable to how things are now then discuss about what if things when we all know it won't happen.

 

We can all say that banning DAD and JD is good for the meta and banning a lot of simple destruction cards so that Stardust is not needed but then what. How exactly is that good for the meta as well? If we banned/limit/semi-limit every card that annoys us then we have a very slow paced restricted game. I wouldn't really find the game fun if the meta turned out to be some burn deck or some stall deck. Hell, if Batteryman would become top tier in a meta like that I would find that very uninteresting. I like the variety and combo speeds that the game provides today minus the game ending in 2-3 turns.

[Flame Dragon]

Yes' date=' I've already seen you say that but I find it pointless in trying to discuss what ifs.

[/quote']

Their are no what ifs though when your the one in control. It isn't a question of what will happen to Stardust's use if DAD, JD, Brain, and the like are banned. It is what is Stardust doing now that DAD, JD, Brain, and the like are banned.

 

People have too many preconceived notions that they know exactly what's good for the meta when they clearly don't.

I'm not saying I know every little thing that is right about the ban list. Hell' date=' in all honesty I'm not that good at this. But I can at least tell when cards are corrupting the game.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight here nor am I trying to atagonize yourself or anyone else on this forum. I'm also not claiming that I know what's good for the meta but I'd rather subjectively discuss about the ban list where it's actually applicable to how things are now then discuss about what if things when we all know it won't happen.

The problem their though is this thread doesn't care what is happening in the the meta and what will happen. It's about what should happen. If we go by what Konami does nothing will change and things will always stay in this poor condition, so thatis why we look past that.

 

Crab put it much better when he said.

But if we're bringing Konami into this' date=' then there is nothing to discuss. We are chained to what is currently present and there is nothing to say about it because nothing more is possible than that which is already plainly there. This is hardly an interesting topic for discussion.

[/quote']

 

We can all say that banning DAD and JD is good for the meta and banning a lot of simple destruction cards so that Stardust is not needed but then what.

When you say simple destruction' date=' I'd assume you mean things like Smashing Ground. Things llike that shouldn't be banned though since they are simple 1 for 1 which are fair. Also why would you ban something for have no use?

 

How exactly is that good for the meta as well? If we banned/limit/semi-limit every card that annoys us then we have a very slow paced restricted game.

That is why we don't ban every little card that annoys us. The simple fact is their will always be good cards and good archtypes, the trick is being able to tell when something goes from good the broken.

 

I wouldn't really find the game fun if the meta turned out to be some burn deck or some stall deck. Hell' date=' if Batteryman would become top tier in a meta like that I would find that very uninteresting. I like the variety and combo speeds that the game provides today minus the game ending in 2-3 turns.

[/quote']

The problem is this meta has no variety and to much speed. The game should not end in under 5 turns. The top 16 should not be made almost entirely of two, three decks. If you want an idea on how a good meta should look you have to go back to before PTDN came out.

[Bull3tM0nk3y]

Maxim in deck............ 2

 

1 Is not good enough, 3 is too many, 2.

[Wizarus]

Maxim in deck............ 2

 

1 Is not good enough' date=' 3 is too many, 2.

[/quote']

 

What makes Stardust any less broken if it was a 2?

[Killey]

Limiting Synchro's doesn't really do much and I think the only time limiting a synchro has been effective was Goyo Guardian. He's still offensive but you can't spam 3 in one turn like before. Granted, most of the cards that allowed for that have been hit just as hard as well.

 

Limiting Brio won't do anything and most people in the first place only ran 1 of him because 1 does the job. Limiting Black Rose Dragon didn't really do much but it did ruin my fun with my old Black Garden deck with Debris Dragon to revive dandylion into BRD for field wipe into 2 tokens. Semi-limiting that other Ice Boundary monster Duralen or something did absoutely nothing and the abuse the card provided was very limited in the first place.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Limiting Synchro's doesn't really do much and I think the only time limiting a synchro has been effective was Goyo Guardian. He's still offensive but you can't spam 3 in one turn like before. Granted' date=' most of the cards that allowed for that have been hit just as hard as well.

 

Limiting Brio won't do anything and most people in the first place only ran 1 of him because 1 does the job. Limiting Black Rose Dragon didn't really do much but it did ruin my fun with my old Black Garden deck with Debris Dragon to revive dandylion into BRD for field wipe into 2 tokens. Semi-limiting that other Ice Boundary monster Duralen or something did absoutely and the abuse the card provided was very limited in the first place.

[/quote']

 

Limiting synchros does help. Limiting BRD killed SalvoDAD and Debu-Hime. Limitnig SDD = 1 Starlight Road per duel, etc. Of course most of the time limiting a synchro is pointless.

 

And of course semi-limiting is one of the most moronic things that you can do :D

[RyanAtlus]

And of course semi-limiting is one of the most moronic things that you can do :D

 

 

Leave SDD at 3. People will only play 1 Road, me thinks.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

Limiting synchros does help. Limiting BRD killed SalvoDAD and Debu-Hime. Limitnig SDD = 1 Starlight Road per duel' date=' etc. Of course most of the time limiting a synchro is pointless.

 

And of course semi-limiting is one of the most moronic things that you can do :D

[/quote']

 

There are only a few things semi-limit help and that's only when it interacts with itself (i.e. Dewloren) but usually it would just be better to limit/ban