BKSS

[darkwolf777]

This I saw under the rulings for Michizure as well >_>

 

* During the Damage Step, you can activate "Sebek's Blessing", "Attack and Receive", "Numinous Healer", "Time Machine", "Michizure", Counter Trap Cards, and Trap/Quick-Play Spell Cards that increase/decrease ATK/DEF.[2]

 

First, Sebek's Blessing, Attack and Receive and Time Machine make sense, because their conditions for activation can only occur during the Damage Step. Numinous Healer and Michizure however do not (you can take damage outside of the Damage Step, i.e. through effects, and monsters can be sent from the Field to the Graveyard outside the Damage Step also). What makes Numinous Healer and Michizure be usable during the Damage Step outside BKSS? >_>

 

* This card cannot be activated during the Damage Step when a monster is destroyed by a card effect.[3]

 

This here makes no sense at all >_> There's no reason why it would be usable during the Damage Step for one reason and not another, at least without clearly writing it on the card. =.=; What the hell makes Michizure HALF usable? Dx

 

See, stuff that makes no sense is BKSS, since they can't keep up with all their lies! Dx

 

Heres one I don't get.

 

"Morphtronic Forcefield" cannot be Chained to "Smashing Ground"/"Fissure"/etc, even if you only control "Morphtronic" monsters.

 

I found this one out while I was playing WC10 and it still doesn't make sense.

 

That's because they do not target and you CANNOT determine or guarantee that a Morphtronic Monster will be destroyed by it at activation, even if all you have are Morphtronics, since effects could be chained that could add a non-morphtronic monster to your side of the field which then gets destroyed by Smashing Ground/Fissure, etc. At activation, who it will destroy cannot be determined until Smashing Ground/Fissure, etc resolves and destroys said monster, even though out of the available targets at activation it would be 100%.

 

Gotta think more like a robot here o.x Its simply programmed mind cannot handle human assumptions and logic.

[Sleepy]

DW and Fabled Meta.

 

I would luv it.

 

This is just a guess but, regardless of cost or effect. Shouldn't that happen something like:?

 

-Discard 5 cards for this

-proceed to Special Summon what I just discarded

-then proceed to destroy the field

-wait let me try that agan.

-...........................

[darkwolf777]

This is just a guess but, regardless of cost or effect. Shouldn't that happen something like:?

 

-Discard 5 cards for this

-proceed to Special Summon what I just discarded

-then proceed to destroy the field

-wait let me try that agan.

-...........................

 

The destruction of Final Destiny occurs before the cards you discarded would activate and chain together. Even though you discarded them as a cost to activate Final Destiny, you do not then chain them to Final Destiny itself. This is because these trigger effects are Spell Speed 1, and cannot chain to another card's activation. After Final Destiny resolves, then SEGOC kicks in and all those cards you discarded activate and chain to each other since it is their time to activate (and do not miss the timing because most, if not all, Fabled monsters who activate when discarded are mandatory effects).

[Sleepy]

I know they don't miss the timimg.

Although thanks for the explanation... that makes sense xD

[Toffee.]

Guiz, wait.

 

Peten the Dark Clown

[burnpsy]

The ruling that says Harpie Lady 1, Harpie Lady 2 and Harpie Lady 3 are all the same card.

 

I had a killer deck that milled a bunch of Harpies to the graveyard, then equipped Phalanx Pike for lolatk. I had duels where I could pop a Phalanx Pike on any Harpie and it was literally Over 9000. Combine that with a Harpie Swarm and Harpie's Hunting Ground...you can guess how that works.

 

But no, Konami has to go and ruin everything by saying you can only run 1 of each or 3 of 1, etc. Straight Harpies can't be meta, Because Konami Says So. I guess Blackwings are allowed to be freakishly broken because they aren't pretty.

 

That's not a ruling - the cards themselves were worded the same as A Legendary Ocean on purpose.

[Chaos Pudding]

Reverse Trap. And before someone who knows what they're talking about yells at me, I know it isn't technically a BKSS. Still doesn't mean it's totally bogus. Could have been the most awesome janky tech counter to Honest/Kalut ever.

[Lord Smeagle]

Ok... Harpies were not meant to be Skull Servants...

 

 

True, they weren't meant to be. But they could have done exactly what King of the Skull Servants did before King of the Skull Servants did it. A lot of decks happen that Konami didn't plan for. I don't think they planned for Geartown Harpie Ladies, Tele-DAD, or Skillless Village, but they happen nonetheless. But when Konami sees something they didn't plan for and they don't like it, they overrule it.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

The BKSS rulings that directly contriadict what is written in the card text. Those are the worst.

[Professional Duelist]

This I saw under the rulings for Michizure as well >_>

 

* During the Damage Step, you can activate "Sebek's Blessing", "Attack and Receive", "Numinous Healer", "Time Machine", "Michizure", Counter Trap Cards, and Trap/Quick-Play Spell Cards that increase/decrease ATK/DEF.[2]

 

First, Sebek's Blessing, Attack and Receive and Time Machine make sense, because their conditions for activation can only occur during the Damage Step. Numinous Healer and Michizure however do not (you can take damage outside of the Damage Step, i.e. through effects, and monsters can be sent from the Field to the Graveyard outside the Damage Step also). What makes Numinous Healer and Michizure be usable during the Damage Step outside BKSS? >_>

 

* This card cannot be activated during the Damage Step when a monster is destroyed by a card effect.[3]

 

This here makes no sense at all >_> There's no reason why it would be usable during the Damage Step for one reason and not another, at least without clearly writing it on the card. =.=; What the hell makes Michizure HALF usable? Dx

 

See, stuff that makes no sense is BKSS, since they can't keep up with all their lies! Dx

 

 

 

That's because they do not target and you CANNOT determine or guarantee that a Morphtronic Monster will be destroyed by it at activation, even if all you have are Morphtronics, since effects could be chained that could add a non-morphtronic monster to your side of the field which then gets destroyed by Smashing Ground/Fissure, etc. At activation, who it will destroy cannot be determined until Smashing Ground/Fissure, etc resolves and destroys said monster, even though out of the available targets at activation it would be 100%.

 

Gotta think more like a robot here o.x Its simply programmed mind cannot handle human assumptions and logic.

I hate how when I read something that I can answer and I scroll down more and find you answering it :[

[.Nu-13]

Baboon. If it worked during Damage Step, it would be awesome. But here BKSS comes in <_<

 

 

Reverse Trap. And before someone who knows what they're talking about yells at me, I know it isn't technically a BKSS. Still doesn't mean it's totally bogus. Could have been the most awesome janky tech counter to Honest/Kalut ever.

 

Yeah. And could buff LaDD to INFINITY and beyond

[Expelsword]

True, they weren't meant to be. But they could have done exactly what King of the Skull Servants did before King of the Skull Servants did it. A lot of decks happen that Konami didn't plan for. I don't think they planned for Geartown Harpie Ladies, Tele-DAD, or Skillless Village, but they happen nonetheless. But when Konami sees something they didn't plan for and they don't like it, they overrule it.

 

 

Do you think that's why they killed Destiny Heroes?

 

because everyone used Malicious and Diamond Dude with D Draw, and no one ran straight D Hero decks... I've only ever seen 2 Clock Tower Prison decks (one was Aster's)

[Lord Smeagle]

Do you think that's why they killed Destiny Heroes?

 

because everyone used Malicious and Diamond Dude with D Draw, and no one ran straight D Hero decks... I've only ever seen 2 Clock Tower Prison decks (one was Aster's)

 

That's exactly it. Konami likes to control their whole game, and they didn't count on Diamond and Malicious being so god-awful broken. So when their archetype broke, they nerfed everything so the deck won't run properly.

 

Now, to be fair, DDT was straight up crazybroken. But Harpies, while powerful, could be stopped easily; for example, Prohibition / Cloak and Dagger shut them down like nobody's business. There was no need for the nerf there, see what I'm sayin'? They could've rebooted the archetype into something meta, like they did for Gravekeepers, but they didn't want to.

 

Also, I have a friend who runs a Destiny End Dragoon deck with Chain Material and Fusion Gate. He can remove Plasma and Dogma to get three DEDs out in one turn, then they die and you revive them the next turn. It's broke as hell. I bet Konami didn't count on that one...

[Expelsword]

That's exactly it. Konami likes to control their whole game, and they didn't count on Diamond and Malicious being so god-awful broken. So when their archetype broke, they nerfed everything so the deck won't run properly.

 

Now, to be fair, DDT was straight up crazybroken. But Harpies, while powerful, could be stopped easily; for example, Prohibition / Cloak and Dagger shut them down like nobody's business. There was no need for the nerf there, see what I'm sayin'? They could've rebooted the archetype into something meta, like they did for Gravekeepers, but they didn't want to.

 

Also, I have a friend who runs a Destiny End Dragoon deck with Chain Material and Fusion Gate. He can remove Plasma and Dogma to get three DEDs out in one turn, then they die and you revive them the next turn. It's broke as hell. I bet Konami didn't count on that one...

 

 

I use it too... but it's just not good enough to beat any modern synchro decks with D Draw limited...

[Master Marik]

The ones I hate are those that make a ruling for something not even stated on the card (ie Solemn Judgment/Bottomless Trap Hole) though wouldn't it be easier if the ruling was printed on the card?

[evilfusion]

The ones I hate are those that make a ruling for something not even stated on the card (ie Solemn Judgment/Bottomless Trap Hole) though wouldn't it be easier if the ruling was printed on the card?

 

Could you enlighten me what such rulings are? I don't think BKSS rulings are well-known to every player, considering they often make no sense in accordance to logic, game mechanics, or what's written on the card, which are my primary methods on deciding rulings.

[Master Marik]

Could you enlighten me what such rulings are? I don't think BKSS rulings are well-known to every player, considering they often make no sense in accordance to logic, game mechanics, or what's written on the card, which are my primary methods on deciding rulings.

You can't use Solemn Judgment or Bottomless during the Damage Step and that isn't printed on either card.

[darkwolf777]

You can't use Solemn Judgment or Bottomless during the Damage Step and that isn't printed on either card.

 

Solemn Judgment can be activated during the Damage Step because it is a Counter Trap Card.

 

You cannot activate Solemn Judgment to negate the Summon of a monster that was summoned by a card effect. You must negate the card that Special Summoned that monster instead.

 

Bottomless Trap Hole cannot be activated during the Damage Step because it does not apply to the standard given by the rules as to what can be activated during the Damage Step (since Bottomless Trap Hole is an ignition-like effect since a player chooses when to activate it, it must affect a monster's ATK or DEF in order for it to be a valid activation in this case, or otherwise have conditions that only apply during the Damage Step, or clearly say it can be used During the Damage Step, although some Trap Cards like Null and Void do not apply to any of these yet are ruled to be usable during the Damage Step *coughBKSScough*).

[Dr. Cakey]

1. Why can't you "negate" a Summon if that Summon was caused by a card effect?

 

2. Where in the RULES does it state that most card effects can't be activated in the Damage Step? I know it's true, but why?

 

3. How are you supposed to tell if a monster's ability to Summon itself is "inherent" - i.e. CyDra is "inherent" and Tragoedia's is not. Again, I know which is which (usually) but what really is the difference?

[evilfusion]

1. Why can't you "negate" a Summon if that Summon was caused by a card effect?

 

2. Where in the RULES does it state that most card effects can't be activated in the Damage Step? I know it's true, but why?

 

3. How are you supposed to tell if a monster's ability to Summon itself is "inherent" - i.e. CyDra is "inherent" and Tragoedia's is not. Again, I know which is which (usually) but what really is the difference?

 

1) Because Solemn is supposed to negate a card at its 'activation', not resolution. Card effects that Special Summon do the summon at resolution. Solemn doesn't negate card effects, it negates their activation. It's in the logic of the card, rather than spelled out, really. An inherent summon is the summoning "equivalent" of activating, whereas a card effect is...that card effect's resolution.

 

2) In the section of the rules marked "Damage Step", I suppose. The damage step is restricted to effects that affect the battle itself, such as ATK/DEF. It is also permitted for cards that negate effects, like Stardust Dragon.

 

3) Well, Cyber Dragon provides a condition for Special Summoning ("If your opponent..."), whereas Tragoedia has a trigger ("When...")

[darkwolf777]

1. Why can't you "negate" a Summon if that Summon was caused by a card effect?

 

Because the timing is incorrect. The timing to negate a summon is BEFORE the monster is successfully Summoned. If a monster is summoned successfully through a card effect, then it is too late to activate Solemn Judgment/Horn of Heaven, etc.

 

2. Where in the RULES does it state that most card effects can't be activated in the Damage Step? I know it's true, but why?

 

The main rule about cards a player can active (read: Cards the player CHOOSES to activate) themselves during the Damage Step is this: The card must affect the ATK or DEF of a monster.

 

Past this, no other cards can be activated during the damage step except:

1) Mandatory Trigger Effects

2) Effects that state on the card they can be used during the Damage Step

3) Effects whose Triggers or Conditions for Activation could only happen during the Damage Step (like Trag when taking Battle Damage).

4) Quick Effect Monster cards that Negate Activations/Effects (Though this isn't actually written anywhere >_> kinda BKSS)

5) Counter Trap Cards

6) Cards like "Null and Void" that due to BKSS, can just magically be used during the Damage Step.

 

There may be more, but that's all I can think about here x.o If anyone wants to crosscheck this list, go for it as getting a standard on rules we can all agree on would probably help things.

 

3. How are you supposed to tell if a monster's ability to Summon itself is "inherent" - i.e. CyDra is "inherent" and Tragoedia's is not. Again, I know which is which (usually) but what really is the difference?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by inherent, but maybe you're trying to discern the difference between a "Summoning Condition" vs "a Trigger Effect that Special Summons".

 

Cards with "Inherent" Summoning Conditions would say on the card how they can be Special Summon (especially if they cannot be Normal Summoned or Set). Inherent Special Summoning conditions would say "This card can be/can only be/cannot be Special Summoned (except) by" in the card text. "Inherent" Summoning Conditions take the idea of "While A is happening" or "By performing A", you can Special Summon this card. They can be Special Summoned from the hand only when those conditions are correct or when the proper actions are performed (like Removing from Play 2 Water Monsters from the Grave to Summon Fenrir). These Special Summonings do not create a chain, and therefore can be negated by the likes of Solemn Judgment.

 

Tragoedia's effect is not "inherent", but a Trigger Effect.. The effect is written like a Trigger Effect is, "When A happens, then you can Special Summon this card".

[Dr. Cakey]

*grabs rulebook*

 

Crap, there it is. Granted, it does not properly illuminate the function (it says "Counter Traps", and "cards that directly change a monster's ATK and DEF", but doesn't mention other effects that negate like Stardust), but there it is. Fine, I guess it makes sense. It doesn't make ENOUGH sense, but it makes sense.

 

Of course, I could say that about this whole game.

[evilfusion]

The whole thing with monster effects that negate had spawned a HUGE discussion about Quick Effect monsters (specifically Herald of Orange) being able to be used during the Damage Step, and how the rules state (vaguely) "some" Quick Effect monster effects can be used. Since nearly every Quick Effect monster with negation effects (Stardust and /Assault, Horus 8, Sorcerer of Dark Magic, etc) are ruled to be usable during the Damage Step, we came to the conclusion that the class of Quick Effect monsters that alter ATK/DEF (Honest), relate to damage (Kuriboh), or negate cards (the aforementioned mini-list) are the type that can be used during Damage Step.

[Expelsword]

The whole thing with monster effects that negate had spawned a HUGE discussion about Quick Effect monsters (specifically Herald of Orange) being able to be used during the Damage Step, and how the rules state (vaguely) "some" Quick Effect monster effects can be used. Since nearly every Quick Effect monster with negation effects (Stardust and /Assault, Horus 8, Sorcerer of Dark Magic, etc) are ruled to be usable during the Damage Step, we came to the conclusion that the class of Quick Effect monsters that alter ATK/DEF (Honest), relate to damage (Kuriboh), or negate cards (the aforementioned mini-list) are the type that can be used during Damage Step.

 

 

Konami <3 Stardust

 

otherwise why is it still @3?

 

/Assault would be completely unplayable with it @1 though...

[Tronta]

the rules were changed or reworded or something, so negation based quick effect monsters can activate during the damage step. it's a new class of available monsters.

 

 

the umi ruling doesn't bother me, the harpy ruling doesn't bother me. you can get around both with support cards.

 

the dimension explosion ruling is stupid. "up to" includes 0. even if it's mandatory, you can still choose to summon nothing. the fairy archer one was konami attempting to prevent a possible otk and tripping flat on their face.