RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Tested the deck and needs more monster protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Loki el Señor de los Aesir' timestamp='1298284662' post='5023149'] As in, your monster line-up is entirely made out of Morphs (give or take a few cards), this basically means you have less ways to counter things. Because Morphs have however-many-otks it means you're running alot of them to make sure you can pull off alot of them. This in turn will reduce consistency. This is because you'll be far more likely to draw into the Morphs you don't need. You're only draw engine is cyber valley(?) and that's a terrible engine. I would seriously think about playing Upstarts/Dualities. [/quote] [b]If the rest of the post is tl;dr, then at least read the bolded, please.[/b] I run that amount of Morphs for several reasons. The first is that I can pull them more consistently at 3 (but a few clogged at 3, so I cut 'em down). The second is that Celfon has a 50/50 chance of getting a Morphtronic if I run 12 Morphs, so I ran more than that. The third reason for my amount of Morphs is that Celfon and Remoten are both Dupe targets, so they need to be at 3 if I run Dupe, and Dupe is amazing here. It was merely a natural thing for the Morphs to be that amount, not because of the amount of OTKs. To be perfectly honest, [b]nearly every OTK with Morphs merely needs some combination of Boomboxen and Radion[/b]. The rest is mainly support. As for the possibility of drawing Morphs that are unnecessary... Most of the other OTKs need some filler Morph with at least 100 base ATK. Aside from that, a few of them can't be unnecessary. I draw Remoten when I want something else? I Normal Summon it and use its effect to pull out what I [i]do[/i] need. Same with Celfon, to an extent. Scopen's only unneeded when I don't have a LV4 in hand (and thus having it doesn't mean that I have immediate access to Black Rose Dragon). The only Morphs that ever seem to be completely dead sometimes are Boomboxen and Boarden, but both of those are very much necessary - Boomboxen being my main attacker and Boarden being excellent support. I cut Boarden to 1 because that much was possible and because Remoten can pull it out, but I can't do the same with Boomboxen, since I tend to run through all 3. As for Valley... It was added because I was already running One for One and Dupe, and I needed more targets for both to make them draw dead less often. Doubling as relatively-bad stall and being a meh draw engine was merely a bonus. If there's something better, I'd be glad to hear it. As for Upstart and Duality... [b]I acknowledge that those are good cards, but[/b] it's like Brionac in that I'm reluctant to add them due to a few things that are rather uncommon that this deck does. [b]I'd rather not add Duality because there are no decent plays that don't outright require Special Summons in this deck[/b] unless I'm already set up, except for plays that end with my lone monster being an ATK position Valley, which you want me to remove. I had a heated debate with RobotBowtieOfDestruction in someone else's Morph deck thread a while back about whether or not Duality would be good in Morphs, my main argument ended up being that. As for [b]Upstart Goblin[/b], it [b]would be somewhat counter-productive, as every OTK that doesn't have double Boomboxen or Boomboxen + Limiter Removal in there somewhere to deal 8000 on their own ends up barely scraping over 8000.[/b] [b]I know that I need a better draw engine, but I have yet to find one that actually works.[/b] [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298300210' post='5023432'] Tested the deck and needs more monster protection. [/quote] Tell me something I don't know. ._. I've been meaning to fit in more, but it's never enough. Do you see space for 2 BTH anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Okay so what im thinking is the deck needs is 2 BTH and 2 D Prison imo This is a queue of what could be negged 1 Scopen 1 Machine Dupe 1 One for One 1 Reasoning You could maybe neg 1 or 2 of them for 1 D Prison or 2 BTH or something. Also you could get rid of the Cyber Valley engine and add in something else altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298324901' post='5024363'] Okay so what im thinking is the deck needs is 2 BTH and 2 D Prison imo This is a queue of what could be negged 1 Scopen 1 Machine Dupe 1 One for One 1 Reasoning You could maybe neg 1 or 2 of them for 1 D Prison or 2 BTH or something. Also you could get rid of the Cyber Valley engine and add in something else altogether. [/quote] Even if I cut Valley, One for One still has 4 targets. It stays. My best opening move is triple Celfon. Until Valley gets cut, Dupe isn't budging. I need a VERY good reason to decrease the amount of Morphs, as Celfon becomes that much less consistent with every cut. Reasoning can go. I've removed it before without a problem. I need a different list. 3/4 cards in there translate into "let's make Celfon worse!" So, I was looking into draw engines that weren't monsters. I saw Card of Sacrifice, Reckless Greed, Jar of Greed, and Legacy of Yata-Garasu. Reckless is only at all decent in groups, making it somewhat inferior to Valley. Card of Sarifice becomes [i]worse[/i] if I cut Valley, but it could be rather nice with failed Celfons while I have Bind/Mirror Force out during the opponent's turn or when I dupe Valley and only remove one of them so I can specifically trigger it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hmm well neg reasoning for 1 d prison? Also is Machine Accel at 2 good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just drop the Valleys for 2 Thunder Kings. Then drop something else and the third Valley for 3 Duality. This deck is a combo deck (ie, it needs specific pieces to achieve what it wants to achieve) and duality allows you to do this with great ease). And if you haven't got the right pieces you can't Special Summon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 So maybe neg 3 Valley and 1 Reasoning for 2 Duality and 2 Rai-Oh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'll do some testing of both builds for you I've got free time out the ass.Huh, yvd has a glitch where you can't side fusions. It will say your extra deck is 16 cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Sorry for the late response. I've barely had time to go on YCM, and I knew I'd be writing a wall of text when I did, so... [quote name='Loki el Señor de los Aesir' timestamp='1298368031' post='5025931'] Just drop the Valleys for 2 Thunder Kings. Then drop something else and the third Valley for 3 Duality. This deck is a combo deck (ie, it needs specific pieces to achieve what it wants to achieve) and duality allows you to do this with great ease). And if you haven't got the right pieces you can't Special Summon anyway. [/quote] The "this is a combo deck" blanket would have worked automatically if it weren't for the fact that all of my important summons come directly from the Graveyard or the Deck unless: A. I'm about to Dupe what I summoned. B. I'm using Scopen this turn. C. I just searched the card I needed with Remoten, in which case I probably Special Summoned Remoten or I'm about to go into Gottoms (and just used Dupe) anyways. D. The monster I summoned is Celfon. E. I just happened to set up every other card in the combo without using my Normal Summon, so I Normal Summon the final piece. F. I have no moves that could be called even half-decent, so I'm setting something in DEF, summoning Valley, playing a Morph and setting Bind, or my field just got wiped and I dead drew. So, if I were to add Duality, all of my moves during the same turn that I played Duality would automatically become scenario F. Sure, I'll get what I need... But this deck's defenses are as thin as paper, the monsters can't take a hit on their own, etc. It makes it do that 90% of my losses come from when I have [i]even one turn[/i] of scenario F. When I look at how many Spells/Traps in this Deck do nothing but Special Summon or protect me during emergencies when I can't... I realize that the only cards that don't are Dark Hole/Giant Trunade/Limiter Removal. Duality's effect in this deck may as well say "Your hand is dead for this turn." instead of stopping me from Special Summoning, because [i]that's precisely the end result[/i]. The combos here are all variables. That being the case, I just need to be able to have a wide array of options to perform multiple summons, thus Duality isn't as necessary as you might think. As long as I have a few parts, I can work with what I've drawn and searched. Besides, Remoten searches combo pieces when I get the wrong ones anyways. tl;dr: It's better if the combo parts [b]aren't[/b] in my hand (Deck/Graveyard, and at most ONE part in my hand is preferrable). Also, most of my losses come from when I have a turn where I can't do anything, and Duality would make that happen in every situation where I'm not winning already. I've always wanted to squeeze Rai-Oh in here, though. I'd gladly fit it in, but I need to figure out the other stuff, too. EDIT: So, I'd pretty much rather test Upstarts, even with the downside to it. [size="3"][b]EDIT2: Tested Duality about 15 or so times. It's exactly as I claim, more hindrance than help.[/b][/size] EDIT3: Tested Upstarts over the Dualities. It was OK, I didn't mind the LP increase most of the time. The trade-off was pretty fair. -3 Cyber Valley -1 Machine Duplication +2 Thunder King Rai-Oh +2 Upstart Goblin [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298376396' post='5026025'] So maybe neg 3 Valley and 1 Reasoning for 2 Duality and 2 Rai-Oh? [/quote] To answer your other post, 2 Dupe is good with 3 different card names to search. If I cut Valley, I'll have to remove a Dupe. As for this post... read my response to Loki's post to see why I'm still not sold about Duality. [quote name='RobotBowtieOfDestruction' timestamp='1298403615' post='5026823'] I'll do some testing of both builds for you I've got free time out the ass. Huh, yvd has a glitch where you can't side fusions. It will say your extra deck is 16 cards [/quote] By "both builds", did you mean the LV6 Synchros or Loki's suggestion? In either case, it would help immensely. And yeah, I noticed the glitch. It's stupid. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 BUMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Well tbh Upstart is only to make the deck at 38 here. And Duality lets you to choose between 3 cards so just neg the upstarts for 2 D Pirson and neg a Reasoning for Slingen?? Imo Slinger is badish but its another target for Celfon and its a weaker version of decsendant. It could test okay and could let you get rid of some of their strong monsters. Or maybe test mst/smashing. Tested this deck (without lighton since I could only use tcg) and from 5 duels I couldn't get out Barkion. And Brionac wasnt much of help either so I'd say just stick to Gaia.Well tbh Upstart is only to make the deck at 38 here. And Duality lets you to choose between 3 cards so just neg the upstarts for 2 D Pirson and neg a Reasoning for Slingen?? Imo Slinger is badish but its another target for Celfon and its a weaker version of decsendant. It could test okay and could let you get rid of some of their strong monsters. Or maybe test mst/smashing. Tested this deck (without lighton since I could only use tcg) and from 5 duels I couldn't get out Barkion. And Brionac wasnt much of help either so I'd say just stick to Gaia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298583803' post='5032079'] Well tbh Upstart is only to make the deck at 38 here. And Duality lets you to choose between 3 cards so just neg the upstarts for 2 D Pirson and neg a Reasoning for Slingen?? Imo Slinger is badish but its another target for Celfon and its a weaker version of decsendant. It could test okay and could let you get rid of some of their strong monsters. Or maybe test mst/smashing. Tested this deck (without lighton since I could only use tcg) and from 5 duels I couldn't get out Barkion. And Brionac wasnt much of help either so I'd say just stick to Gaia. [/quote] Terrible logic on Duality > Upstart there. People run Upstart [i]because[/i] it essentially decreases the size of the deck. I've already used Slingen in the past. It was a piece of junk. The only time it's at all decent is when Celfon summons it or when it's in my hand at the same time as Scopen. >___> Summoning LV6 is pretty rare anyways. The way I see it, there' only a few ways that I can pull LV6s, and the only ones that [i]don't[/i] let me pull out Barkion are those with Scopen. All instances of a LV6 being possible where Barkion is not involves either triple Celfon or Boarden + Scopen, meaning that a Special Summon was involved there somewhere. If the Special Summon was Scopen, it could easily be in DEF and make a LV7. If I Normal Summoned Scopen with triple Celfon in play, I could just go for LV4 or LV5 and let the last Celfon be. Therefore, the only scenario where running Barkion would actually hurt me is when I Special Summon Boarden and Normal Summon Scopen with the intention of performing a Synchro Summon. Too rare to be a problem. So it's pretty much Barkion by default if Brionac wasn't very good... And Gaia Knight sucks. There's no reason to use it except "it runs over Stardust". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Imo then just do -2 Upstars for 2 D Prisons?? and then you can -Morph Bind for Glow Up If you add in the 2 d prisons an -1 morph bind you will have good enough defense. And Glow-Up could be good here since your running Reasoning and it could be sent to grave. And if you choose Brionac over Barkion it could be for a discard. And if you have it in your hand you can just Normal Summon it while you have other morphs for more synchro spam. Also Reasoning is too good here imo in early plays because you could then use Junk Box and Remoten etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298585699' post='5032137'] Imo then just do -2 Upstars for 2 D Prisons?? and then you can -Morph Bind for Glow Up If you add in the 2 d prisons an -1 morph bind you will have good enough defense. And Glow-Up could be good here since your running Reasoning and it could be sent to grave. And if you choose Brionac over Barkion it could be for a discard. And if you have it in your hand you can just Normal Summon it while you have other morphs for more synchro spam. Also Reasoning is too good here imo in early plays because you could then use Junk Box and Remoten etc. [/quote] The problem here is that between Lighton and the sided Veilers, I don't need any more LV1 Tuners. LV1 doesn't have enough to offer for me to use more than one, and I can abuse Lighton so much more easily than Glow-Up. Note that the only ways I can summon Glow-Up are One for One, Reasoning, Reborn, its own effect, or with my Normal Summon. The only thing there that it has that Lighton doesn't is its own effect, but Lighton has Celfon and Junk Box to summon it. Plus, levels on Morphs are rather low. When I play Lighton, it's always either to summon Formula or to turn my LV7s into LV8s. You just decided that the extra protection should be D-Prison on your own there. on the previous page of this thread, wasn't the plan to try both Bottomless and D-Prison and see which one was more adequate? People are already quite careful before they attack as-is, so catching them on the summon [i]might[/i] actually be better here. Book/Limiter/Mirror/Bind/Boomboxen/Lighton stop attacks. Judgment/Warning/TT stop them at the summon. See the ratio imbalance here? That's why Reasoning is in here. How good of you to notice. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 What about call here? I know you already have Junk Box and Monster Reborn but an Extra Special Summon wouldn't hurt. Also Glow-Up can easily make Gottoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298587785' post='5032192'] What about call here? I know you already have Junk Box and Monster Reborn but an Extra Special Summon wouldn't hurt. Also Glow-Up can easily make Gottoms. [/quote] Gottoms is here for triple Remoten. I'd honestly never even consider summoning it otherwise. Note that Lighton can make Gottoms as well. For me to willingly add Glow-Up, there has to be something significant that Lighton can't do that it can. Also, Morphs have a LOT of other revival options. Map, Repair Unit, etc. There's no need to run Call when there are Spells that could be used. Triple Map is actually quite good here, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Neg Book and 2 Upstarts for 3 Maps maybe?Actually scratch my map idea. Just neg the upstarts for 1 repair unit and 1 boarden. And then run another lv 6 like gaia/brionac/uruquizaz/ironchain The more Morphtronics the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298589570' post='5032251'] Neg Book and 2 Upstarts for 3 Maps maybe? Actually scratch my map idea. Just neg the upstarts for 1 repair unit and 1 boarden. And then run another lv 6 like gaia/brionac/uruquizaz/ironchain The more Morphtronics the better. [/quote] Why do you think I only run one Boarden? When I ran 2 at the previous YCS, the second one was always unneeded, a dead draw. IMO, Boarden is only good at 1 or 3. 1 if I only use it for direct attacks, 3 for fun with Dupe. Remoten can always pull it out by removing another Remoten if necessary anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 kkk then What about Gorz? You dont run too many traps and if your opponent clears the field it good defend you for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1298632855' post='5033172'] kkk then What about Gorz? You dont run too many traps and if your opponent clears the field it good defend you for a while. [/quote] It's already in the Side Deck. EDIT: Bottomless > Upstart for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Duality tested good. :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 [quote name='RobotBowtieOfDestruction' timestamp='1298684081' post='5034613'] Duality tested good. :S [/quote] So it tested terrible for me, but tested good for you. :S Dunno how that could have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetie Belle Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I lol'd at Armory Arm's chant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Multiples of synchros might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 wtf we should playtest more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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