Flame Dragon Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41rWdJLPL9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/img] The card that started it all. From this humble little card a whole deck theme was created and a term coined. So, discuss mill strategies, be they against an opponent or self mill. And, because this is open ended, lets start with 2 questions. 1) What archetype don't like getting milled? From personal experience almost every deck I've played wants, or doesn't care, if they are milled. 2) Is mill a viable strategy in yugioh since it more often then not helps the opponent a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 I kinda' wish we didn't have so many Graveyard-based effects. So we could use self-mill as an actual cost for card effects, as an alternate to Life Point costs, and it would actually matter because we lost cards we would need later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 1) Can't think of any MTG decks that really, truly hate mill. Eldrazi scoff at it since the Titans have recycling effects, and Incarnations want to be buried... 2) Only time you force your opponent to mill in Yugioh is if you're decking them out that turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 I find Iron Chain Dragon to be incredible this format, even with Chaos and LS around. Milling is an incredibly powerful strategy, just nearly impossible to form a good, consistent deck around. LS want to be milled, but not over-milled. Not sure what decks hate being milled more. TG dont really like it that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1315629952' post='5503955'] LS want to be milled, but not over-milled.[/quote] And then JD pops out of nowhere and is all: "HURRR DURR PAY 1000 FOR GAME" :/ ...Also, if I remember correctly, it was pretty much the Lightsworn archetype that started the whole "Milling is good" fetish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 A lot of Grave support, especially mass revival like Rekindling, want milling to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Karakuri's no like milling... Though the D. Fissure versions would LOVE to mill the opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1315630229' post='5503966'] A lot of Grave support, especially mass revival like Rekindling, want milling to occur. [/quote] Flamvells are an exception, as they [i]want[/i] self-milling, but don't have any ridiculous archetype-specific boss monsters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Wait, wait... Did you just say Iron Chain was good, evilfusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Okami - Shiranui' timestamp='1315630542' post='5503988'] Wait, wait... Did you just say Iron Chain was good, evilfusion? [/quote] Iron Chain kills in duels late against LS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Okami - Shiranui' timestamp='1315630542' post='5503988'] Wait, wait... Did you just say Iron Chain was good, evilfusion? [/quote] Lately with my TG deck, I've found Iron Chain to be the best Level 6 to drop, unless I either want to push for game with Brio or overpower a 2500 with Gaia (or in the rare situation where Barkion is boss). In the past, Iron Chain was always that card I had in the Extra Deck because it was a decent beater, but NEVER the go-to Level 6. It seems like a reckless thing to do with Chaos format, but I often find myself milling cards like Reborn, Heavy Storm, Black Luster, Chaos Sorcerer, or JD, if not just random cards that won't particularly hurt or help the opponent. So yes, I think Iron Chain Dragon is GOOD, this format at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted September 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Okami - Shiranui' timestamp='1315629744' post='5503936'] 1) Can't think of any MTG decks that really, truly hate mill. Eldrazi scoff at it since the Titans have recycling effects, and Incarnations want to be buried... 2) Only time you force your opponent to mill in Yugioh is if you're decking them out that turn. [/quote] 1) While none hate it, few actively want it. Only two I can think of are Dredge and Unearth really. [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1315629713' post='5503933'] I kinda' wish we didn't have so many Graveyard-based effects. So we could use self-mill as an actual cost for card effects, as an alternate to Life Point costs, and it would actually matter because we lost cards we would need later. [/quote] Yea, we really need an archetype that actually uses it as a cost. But even without grave-based effects we also have tons of way to bring back cards, especially creatures. So even then, mill would help. [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1315630064' post='5503960'] And then JD pops out of nowhere and is all: "HURRR DURR PAY 1000 FOR GAME" :/ ...Also, if I remember correctly, it was pretty much the Lightsworn archetype that started the whole "Milling is good" fetish. [/quote] More or less. Before while some archetypes might have wanted some mill they couldn't really get it. LS gave us a bunch of splash able cards to give decks some kind of mill engine. I know the crappy Laval deck splash in a few as an extra way to get my mill going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDDRodrigo Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Empty Jar is one of the funniest decks, and it odesn't even "mill" But Lightsworns broke milling, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 We need a cad like this: Grave lockdown Continbous spell Effects that affect the graveyard are negated. OH WAIT. [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101030044360/yugioh/images/thumb/e/ec/NecrovalleySDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg/371px-NecrovalleySDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img] This should be in anti-meta decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Milling is like loosing life. None impact your plays until they are too critically low. That said, its a legit win condition. Random idea. Konami should release a strategy that either: -Discards cards from your opponent's Deck instead of provoking Life Point damage (obviously depending on how much damage) -Same as above but without taking away the potential damage just in case. Let's see... if a player technically starts with 35 or 34 cards in the Deck. Also, if a player always starts with 8000 Life. Then, about 7 or 8 milled cards would be about 2000 damage translated in the life of your Deck. Too bad so far the only Decks that can effectively focus on it must always be OTK or stall based IRL. It would be a cool idea IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Guardian Ceal' timestamp='1315678456' post='5504911'] We need a cad like this: Grave lockdown Continbous spell Effects that affect the graveyard are negated. OH WAIT. [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101030044360/yugioh/images/thumb/e/ec/NecrovalleySDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg/371px-NecrovalleySDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img] This should be in anti-meta decks. [/quote] That doesn't stop effects from activating in the graveyard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Konami, please. Make a Normal Spell card with this exact effect: [quote] Send the top 7 cards of your Opponent's deck to his/her Graveyard. Gain 800 Life Points.[/quote] Nothing more, nothing less, and leave it@3. It would kill the hell out of decks that [i]WANT[/i] milling, buy giving them [i]A LOT MORE[/i] of it, and could actually enforce a bit of conservative plays that involve taking cards from your deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Close enough. Konami already printed it, so they aren't going to make a better version :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [i]It mills![/i] [i]*shot*[/i] Mechanic is broken in YGO. Not so much in MTG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1315681109' post='5505059'] Not so much in MTG... [/quote] *cough*Innistrad*cough* OT: Gotta love how mill was supposed to be a backfire to players, not a help at first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDDRodrigo Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1315681109' post='5505059'] Not so much in MTG... [/quote] I hope you know that there's a two-card combo in MtG where you win in 2 turns by exiling your entire deck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Konoe A. Mercury' timestamp='1315683510' post='5505151'] I hope you know that there's a two-card combo in MtG where you win in 2 turns by exiling your entire deck [/quote] Although it's a bit sacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Noel Vermillion' timestamp='1315683856' post='5505166'] Although it's a bit sacky [/quote] And requires 5 Mana for that Artifact Creature (I think that's the one, right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1315684328' post='5505183'] And requires 5 Mana for that Artifact Creature [/quote] That + 2 for Laboratory Maniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 [quote name='Noel Vermillion' timestamp='1315684404' post='5505192'] That + 2 for Laboratory Maniac [/quote] So it needs 7 Mana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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