Legend Zero Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 http://www.konami.com/yugioh/articles/?p=3879 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoRWBY65 Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 ...is this trying to tell us inzektors are worse than people think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote][color=#555555][font=Verdana,]The tipping point comes when a card or deck starts to have such a disproportionate influence that it forces you to make choices about your deck that you don’t want to make.[/quote][/font][/color] [color=#555555][font=Verdana,]ohai there triple effect veiler[/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 So basically, Chaos Dragons are okay now? [/article] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Thanks for giving specific examples to explain your reasoning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='GalaxyEyes10' timestamp='1337906368' post='5946354'] ...is this trying to tell us inzektors are worse than people think? [/quote] More like trying to explain why BoM is on the list and failing at it. [quote][color=#555555][font=Verdana,]Sometimes, between 2 decks, 1 is actually more powerful than the other. But if nobody’s actually willing to play it, then there isn’t much point in putting it on the F&L list, is there?[/font][/color][/quote] [img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7085/7265033646_19e1aa5113_m.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Konami: *Sees Inzektor/Chaos Dragon/Hieratic/Rabbit/Wind-up/Lightsworn/Dark World/Etc. Thread* [img]http://i56.tinypic.com/i20rhc.jpg[/img] "AND NOTHING BUT" said Tewart. This is seriously stupid now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 The problem with his "logic" is that it assumes [i]Hot New Deck[/i] and [i]Dreaded Deck X[/i] are both unworthy of being banned when, if I'm reading his analogy correctly, they both certain are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNo.101 S.H. Death Knight Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I dunno what the f*** to think of this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote]Second, just because a card is powerful does not mean it will appear on the F&L List.[/quote] I know this ties in with "either win a tourney or gtfo" mind track that Konami has, but how can they go about this and not feel idiotic? If a card is obviously bad for the game why should we wait for it to start topping tournaments (aka ruining an entire format) before they hit said card? Not to mention that keeping a broken card off the banlist would (or should) influence and restrict Konami's design team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Devil's Advocate' timestamp='1337908320' post='5946387'] So basically, Chaos Dragons are okay now? [/article] [/quote]What part of "First, just because a card is popular does not mean it will appear on the F&L List. Second, just because a card is powerful does not mean it will appear on the F&L List. [u][b]But[/b][/u] if these two things come together, [u][b]AND[/b][/u] a card or Deck is – or looks like it will – negatively impact deck diversity, then action may be warranted." Don't you understand? REDMD is both powerful AND popular. He's basically saying that REDMD, Hornet, and Rabbit are going to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I read the previous two parts of his discussion, and I concluded what most of us have already figured out: Tewart is not very smart. Here's what he had to say on Wind-Up Hunter: [quote][color=#555555][font=Verdana,]With cards from [/font][/color][i]Order of Chaos[/i][color=#555555][font=Verdana,], it’s possible to build a powerful hand discard engine. And when the March 1 F&L list was under discussion, we considered taking some preemptive action against Wind-Ups. But the deciding factor was that, at the time, the deck had been available in Asia for a while already, and they just weren’t winning tournaments there.[/font][/color] [color=#555555][font=Verdana,]We saw a lot of parallels between Wind-Ups and Lightsworn (see yesterday’s comments on Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner). A Wind-Up deck can be very nasty to face against in a tournament. But at the end of the day, when we were looking at the situation at the start of the year, they just didn’t seem to be winning in Asia. Tournament results in the Americas and Europe since the release of [/font][/color][i]Order of Chaos[/i][color=#555555][font=Verdana,] have supported this: Wind-Ups are there, but not in heavy numbers, and they’re not performing that well. We’ll continue to keep an eye on them, though.[/font][/color][/quote] I'm not a tournament player, but I see a problem here. People immediately - virtually [i]preemptively[/i] - responded to Wind-Up Hunter and Inzektors by maining 2-3 copies of Effect Veiler. This leads to one of the following four situations: 1. Wind-Ups open with combo. Opponent does not have Veiler. Wind-Ups win. 2. Wind-Ups open with combo. Opponent does have Veiler. Significant resources expended, leading to a more probable Wind-Up loss. 3. Wind-Ups do not open with combo. Normal game. That's not so bad (well actually it is, but never mind). But if we remove Veiler, then: 1. Wind-Ups open with combo. Wind-Ups win. 2. Wind-Ups do not open with combo. Normal game. That's called a coin toss. Only instead of tossing an actual coin, it just depends on the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Dr. Cakey!!' timestamp='1337913963' post='5946473'] I read the previous two parts of his discussion, and I concluded what most of us have already figured out: Tewart is not very smart. Here's what he had to say on Wind-Up Hunter:[/quote] Clearly we need to ban Effect Veiler /konami logic Source: Limiting Book of Moon. Banning Royal Oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Hatcher' timestamp='1337915196' post='5946491'] Source: Limiting Book of Moon. Banning Royal Oppression. [/quote] ... They did need to ban Oppression ._. Oppression did the same as Krystia and vice versa. SPAMSPAMSPAM oh you're locked, welp GG There's no reason that's not banworthy. It became meta instead of Anti-meta and just made the game even more unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 To be fair though, Oppression wouldn't be a problem if SPAMSPAMSPAM wasn't the objective of every meta deck. We knew that Konami wouldn't fix that so Oppression leaving was a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337915367' post='5946493'] ... They did need to ban Oppression ._. Oppression did the same as Krystia and vice versa. SPAMSPAMSPAM oh you're locked, welp GG There's no reason that's not banworthy. It became meta instead of Anti-meta and just made the game even more unfair. [/quote] SPAMSPAMSPAM is the problem there, not Oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Hatcher' timestamp='1337915706' post='5946498'] SPAMSPAMSPAM is the problem there, not Oppression. [/quote] Swarm decks aren't the only problem =/ Not every Meta deck needs to be swarm, but simply put, put Royal Oppression behind a Grapha. 1 Grapha. That's ridiculous for locking down the opponent while killing them swiftly. Or just replace Grapha with /any/ beatstick. You're still sealing off the opponents' plays while hitting on them. It punishes you for simply playing the game, y'know, NOT relying on Normal Summons to win on everything. Just think about the current format. Oppression with Grapha behind it. Oppression with Rabbit behind it. Inzektors just pop it when they explode. (Provided, requires not-Damsel to kill it so not as evil) Oppression is banned, and it should stay banned. It's not even remotely comparable to Book of Moon or Effect Veiler, considering those are things used to survive an onslaught as opposed to lock down the opponent. Look at Kristya. Does Herald spamspamspam then Kristya? No. It summons a Herald then a Krystia and sits on it. People still want Kristya to go to 1, even when it's not topping, because beign able to lock down SS altogether is ridiculous. SPAMSPAMSPAM isn't the only way to use this, it was just the most common at time of death. It's not the Spam's fault, it's Oppression's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuh Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 The problem with the whole "Your opponent cannot Special Summon" clause is broken by the fact that it doesn't limit your on Special Summons before they were Summoned/Activated. If Royal Oppressions effect had a Pot of Duality type clause but it works for the latest turn, then it wouldn't be as abusive. Same goes for Kristya if its effect activated if you couldnt Special Summon it, plus you couldn't Special Summon the same turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Pika why do you mod the TCG section when you're absolutely hopeless at the game? So Tewart's saying what we've known for ages? A card that's good and popular may see list attention but he is also incredibly vague about it because he doesn't want to make any more stupid points? Ok then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjoume Thunder Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1337937999' post='5946598'] Pika why do you mod the TCG section when you're absolutely hopeless at the game? [/quote] You are trying too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1337947304' post='5946621'] You are trying too hard. [/quote] No I'm asking a legitimate question I've been asking for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Okay, the deepest and most fatal of the fatal flaws in Tewart's logic is that when [i]Hot New Deck[/i] is joined by lesser known [i]Dreaded Deck X[/i] in the Top 16/8/4, the bandwagon will begin to shift from [i]Hot New Deck[/i] to [i]Dreaded Deck X[/i]. The entire plan is to wait until things become unworkable, then correct the problem. The one time something was preemptively attacked - T.G. Striker for Tech Genus - that was totally unnecessary, because T.G.s lost Oppression and can't Xyz for s***. They wouldn't have lasted. tl;dr /ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Actually, they hit T.G. Striker to weaken older deck types to get people to buy new cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337916442' post='5946507'] Swarm decks aren't the only problem =/ Not every Meta deck needs to be swarm, but simply put, put Royal Oppression behind a Grapha. 1 Grapha. That's ridiculous for locking down the opponent while killing them swiftly. Or just replace Grapha with /any/ beatstick. You're still sealing off the opponents' plays while hitting on them. It punishes you for simply playing the game, y'know, NOT relying on Normal Summons to win on everything. Just think about the current format. Oppression with Grapha behind it. Oppression with Rabbit behind it. Inzektors just pop it when they explode. (Provided, requires not-Damsel to kill it so not as evil) Oppression is banned, and it should stay banned. It's not even remotely comparable to Book of Moon or Effect Veiler, considering those are things used to survive an onslaught as opposed to lock down the opponent. Look at Kristya. Does Herald spamspamspam then Kristya? No. It summons a Herald then a Krystia and sits on it. People still want Kristya to go to 1, even when it's not topping, because beign able to lock down SS altogether is ridiculous. SPAMSPAMSPAM isn't the only way to use this, it was just the most common at time of death. It's not the Spam's fault, it's Oppression's. [/quote] But isn't that a problem in your scenario because the meta is only consisting of SPAMSPAMSPAM decks? If we had a meta in which only 1-2 of the big decks spamed a bunch of monsters, wouldn't that push Oppression to the side and maybe out all together? I fail to see how Oppression going from 1 to 0 (I don't and never have wanted it at more) was a better move than fixing (or innovating in Konami's case) the meta from whoever spams first wins. I feel as though I missed your point. DX [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1337937999' post='5946598'] Pika why do you mod the TCG section when you're absolutely hopeless at the game? [/quote] I share Pika's opinion on this one, am I hopeless too? Also, once again, being good at this game has [i]extremely[/i] little to do with modding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1337947457' post='5946622'] No I'm asking a legitimate question I've been asking for months. [/quote] As LZ said, modding out links to p0rn.com, spam topics about Russian furniture, obvious flamewars, duplicate topics or topics that offer no valid arguments does not require any knowledge of the actual game. Besides, Special Summon spamming [i]is[/i] a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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