What was your favorite format?

[Agro]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1354782395' post='6086585']
So since you can't counter my points, you're going to use really bad ad hominem attacks instead? Real classy, but I guess it's to be expected from someone like you. I don't know if it's escaped your notice of if you're just being pretentious on purpose, but most people enjoy winning and equate it or at least strongly correlate it with having fun. Sure, playing drawn out grind games or knowing when to make the best plays with available cards takes skill and is an attribute that's missing from those decks, but skill in itself is not a necessary attribute for having fun. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing Stun/Beat Hero variants just as much (in fact a little more, the real reason I liked it was because Heroes were finally top tier), and I'll probably opt to play something less explosive in a competitive setting, but that doesn't mean I can't play games with decks I enjoy even if they are inherently unbalanced. It's a part of basic human psychology, deal with it. [/end rant]
[/quote]So you can't equate losing with fun. You don't think it's possible? That sucks. Sure, there's a certain pain in losing, but it shouldn't be absolutely horrible like it is these past two formats. There's a specific sting to losing the way you do almost every time these days. You may argue that there's no way to avoid that, even if the game wasn't full of OTKs and loops, but you're wrong.

A competitive, fun game, not based on topdecking the absolute nuts, but outplaying your opponent has always been enjoyable for me, win or lose. Most specifically, I can point to a match I had with HERO beat against Gravekeepers. The match was absolutely enjoyable and I lost in 3 games. It's still the most enjoyable game of Yu-Gi-Oh! I've ever played and the knowledge of that feeling is the sole reason I still play this game.

Sure, it was nice seeing HERO be top tier, but that wasn't what I wanted out of it. I didn't want another OTK deck to come out and win, I wanted a control variant like HERO beat. I wanted to have fun, and I want to enjoy my games win or lose. You may not believe that's possible, but it is.

Finally, since you brought it up, I'll argue basic psychology. Studies show that people enjoy things more if they work hard to get to it. So by that logic, people will enjoy a hard fought game more than they'll enjoy OTKing, looping, and one-card-win dropping without much P2P interactions. They'll enjoy a format more without this stupidity than they will with it.

So not only is it possible to enjoy losing, but it's more fun not to win in the ways you say are necessary. That enough of a counter for you?

[Alpakha]

I haven't been around for too many formats, but I absolutely hated last format. Every duel was inzektor, wind up, wind up inzektor, chaos, or some Hieratic variant. Otk's & win moar decks everywhere. I dueled people on DN who didn't even read their own cards =P. I joined during synchro era, but I was a complete noob then so I didn't do much then (I used to think that Ritual go into extra deck). Anyway, I guess I like this one the best; well, I like it better than the last one at least.

btw agro, +rep for the post above

[AsianGuy1137]

So you've decided to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote and then write a semi-coherent diatribe based on the premise of a logical fallacy of false conclusion? Good for you. Instead of wasting time by deconstructing your poorly thought out argument, I'll say this. The primordial driving force behind all psychology is rooted in the mechanisms of evolution. Winning by itself through a children's card game might not mean much, but it's the associated projections of winning as a concept that is one of the more fundamental aspects of human psychology. Having fun can be interpreted as a sense of satisfaction from excess pleasure-facilitating neurotransmitters that has shown to continuously reinforce behavior that can help one attain or retain a similar mental state. Winning is by far the dominant enabler. At this point, it seems that you're either ignoring this universal truth or even worse, arguing against it. Thereby, to say that using more thought by itself, and therefore skill by itself, to win a game is in and of itself reason to conceive them as a cause and effect situation is fallacious. Why? For a simple reason. If you win with skill, it's the ultimate state of winning that reinforces your behavior of using skill, but if you lose with skill, the skill itself won't be as fundamentally reinforced. In fact, doing so could cause cognitive dissonance and gradually break down any preconceived correlations you might have on skill and winning. Simple statistics, a la thousands of netdeckers who would rather play Dino Rabbit, Inzektors, or Wind-Up over decks that potentially took more skill because of the fundamental desire to win. In summary, the perception of the fun derived from skill is a misconception of basic correlations into cause-and-effect relationships. If there was another comparison, per se, between two decks that had a similar win percentage with varying levels of skill, then that would be a valid argument. But not in this case.

Look, before this escalates even more, I'll just say this. I'm in a bad mood right now, and I don't really mean to be an a**hole on the subject. I distinctly remember you criticizing my views on how Chaos Dragons would break REDMD a while back before Chaos Dragons were a thing, and I've had a bad perception of you ever since, but that's a really petty thing to be upset about. From what I can tell, you seem like a good player who tries to be more assertive on subjects than he should be, deterring people who aren't that experienced or have different perspectives on subjects from having good relations with you. I can be that way too, but I'm trying to be more open-minded, and sometimes it can be hard. I'll drop the subject if you'll stop nitpicking every little thing.

[Miror B]

Can we go back to the part of the argument where people just called each other idiots instead of taking a paragraph to do it?

[Agro]

@asianguy
Sure, but just let me say that although winning can be really fun for you, and you can win a lot when everything's broken, how about the other guy? You know, the one you're playing against. That guy is really depressed because he keeps getting killed before he can make a play because the game is so horribly unbalanced. My main point in all this is that it's better for all of us to have a format without all this crap. I've been on both sides of it and it's honestly just more fun in general if I can enjoy both winning and have fun in a game even though I lose.

Also, just gotta point out, even though I'm not sure if you have other major results to point at, but from what I can tell, Dark Worlds didn't completely dominate the Kuwanoie championship because they were the best deck. No, from what I can see of the side decks, it's just that no one prepared for them at all. Kind of like how Wind-Ups just appeared and smashed everything in a YCS last format because everyone stopped siding Maxx "C".

@meta: Desu's not in the argument, so we walk around it.

[AsianGuy1137]

[quote name='Meta~' timestamp='1354784768' post='6086597']
Can we go back to the part of the argument where people just called each other idiots instead of taking a paragraph to do it?
[/quote]
No, because that doesn't take any skill. I'm not here to argue that anyone's an idiot. Besides, you're the ones who started all the nitpicking. I'm here to say that I have a valid opinion, and I would respect it if people like Aggro don't just start nitpicking it and then resort to ad hominem attacks when they don't have a way to counter the initial counter to the nitpicking.

Also, in response to Aggro's latest post. It's more the absense of Mermail decks in general from a few different, but rather large local tournament reports that I've read through a few different asian forums. Shriek by itself isn't extensive or conclusive so I rely on a few friends and my ability to read Asian being Asian myself. I think this format is incredibly balanced, but I'm not gonna pretend that I didn't have fun last format. I personally didn't mind losing all that much because I just enjoyed the deck I was playing so much, despite how inherently broken that is. Gishkis especially. I have an obsession with them.

[Agro]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1354784896' post='6086599']
No, because that doesn't take any skill.
[/quote]Poor choice of words.

[AsianGuy1137]

Or maybe it was a deliberate choice of words to emphasize a specific viewpoint on a subject. In this case, it's more of an acknowledgement that you have a valid argument too, and I'll respect that without trying to call you an idiot.

[Miror B]

[quote name='AsianGuy1137' timestamp='1354784896' post='6086599']
my ability to read Asian being Asian myself
[/quote]
What language is "Asian"?
I know there's Chinese and Japanese and like 10 others but Asian?

[AsianGuy1137]

Just the two you listed actually. It's the first two groups you think of when it comes to YuGiOh and, well, Asian in general. I guess I should've put quotation marks around it so you don't question my intelligence next time.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

yeah no constant stupid OTK decks arent fun. neither is everyone running the same thing. ive never been able to afford a top tier deck. never. my family just never had the money and even if we did a card game wasnt gonna be what wed spend it on. the best ive ever had is a plant deck that was (and still is) missing several key components. and i mean key. no dandylion or glowup or spore. only one black rose and only one stardust. i didnt even have enough synchro monsters for a full extra deck and this was before xyz. but i still had lots of fun playing it casually. the tournaments not so much since it was all throwing down DAD or judgement dragon and expecting the opponent to scoop. its not worth spending $5 every weekend for the exact same crap over and over. and thats on top of all the money it takes to build a deck to begin with. and i mean build. structure decks only get you so far.

though even if it were completely free to go to tournaments and play in real life, it still wouldnt be fun to lose to the same things over and over again. i wanna have at least a chance to win, rather than me and some shmuck drawing until one of us can just throw down their hands and win. its not rewarding, no matter what the outcome is. i dont mind fast games. i dont mind the fact that some matchups are just gonna be very one sided. i dont even mind the fact that sometimes people are just gonna win in one turn. but variety is important and its very obvious that the amount of variety has been dwindling in this game as of late.

btw, if were talking about favorite matches one of my favorites was my plants against a fish deck pre-Substitoad. it was honestly a blast to get crushed as bad as i did because it took WORK to get to that point. i also didnt lose every time either which helps too. ξ(✿＞◡❛)ξ

[Stan Alda]

So...anyway, I'm fond of the September 2008 format, if only because it didn't have Synchros or Xzys. I like to put a little time and effort into getting my bosses out, thankyouverymuch.

[TheKaitoKid]

I would have to say this format (or it was before the Mermantean invasion -.-). I started playing again under the March 2011 list and I really wasn't a fan of "Set 5 GG" or "Syncrocentric Plants". Last format which my friends and I like to call "What Backrow?" was terrible due to Inzektors, Chaos Dragons and Dino Rabbit (to an extent) not giving a high flying damn about your monsters or your backrow (hence the name). This was cool until Atlantean and Mermails came out, oh and that herp-derp Lord of brokeness Moulinglacia and it's gonna go straight to hell come February with the fun-but-oh-so-undeniably-broken Fire Kings. So yeah...not many good formats have passed in my time.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

Goat Control. Obviously.

And no, I never actually played in the timeframe of goat control. But Chris introduced me to the deck, and it has become my ultimate favorite deck of ALL TIMEZ.

But the Six Samurai format was kewl, because I play sams IRL

[~British Soul~]

[quote name='TheKaitoKid' timestamp='1354802831' post='6086704']
I would have to say this format (or it was before the Mermantean invasion -.-). I started playing again under the March 2011 list and I really wasn't a fan of "Set 5 GG" or "Syncrocentric Plants".
[/quote]
I'm agreeing with you here, I liked this format in the 2 months prior to Merlanteans existing.
I hated the March 2011 format because was one of the worst formats ever. I wasn't much of a fan of the last format either because it was mainly influenced by Inzektors.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

Neos Alius -> Set 5 -> Opponent Summons Alius -> Set 5

I loved that format.

[Love of Ghibli]

For me it would be the format of the Agent variants I think that's September 2011.

It was a purely control deck format and while Dark World and their odious Grapha existed it was easy to side against. Sense I've been fairy user since I started the game it was fu to finally be in a format where fairies dominated.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Never been to a real life tourny but I would say back when Macro Monarch was actually decent.

[El Majishan]

I absolutely LOVED Saber format (post Rescue Cat)

[quote name='Beginning446' timestamp='1354812625' post='6086799']
For me it would be the format of the Agent variants I think that's September 2011.

It was a purely control deck format and while Dark World and their odious Grapha existed it was easy to side against. Sense I've been fairy user since I started the game it was fu to finally be in a format where fairies dominated.
[/quote]

Agents a control deck? I see it more as " summon all the boss monsters. and win" deck.

[Agro]

[quote name='Spike the Bloody' timestamp='1354803479' post='6086708']
But the Six Samurai format was kewl, because I play sams IRL
[/quote]And f*** you too.

OT: Goat Control had the one thing that all the other formats didn't: complete skill. Plus the deck was completely versatile and there was so much diversity just in the design of a single deck, even if it had a s*** ton of broken cards. It's the kind of deck that all current decks should look like.

[El Majishan]

[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1354819137' post='6086880']
And f*** you too.

OT: Goat Control had the one thing that all the other formats didn't: complete skill. Plus the deck was completely versatile and there was so much diversity just in the design of a single deck, even if it had a s*** ton of broken cards. It's the kind of deck that all current decks should look like.
[/quote]

That was before archtypes.. decks are now made for us by Konami since they make more money that way. The last good "holy pile of random" deck we had that was actually good was Plant Syncho..which IMO was the new Goat Control.

[Agro]

[quote name='El Majishan' timestamp='1354819384' post='6086885']
That was before archtypes.. decks are now made for us by Konami since they make more money that way. The last good "holy pile of random" deck we had that was actually good was Plant Syncho..which IMO was the new Goat Control.
[/quote]Also why I want Glow-up back

[LeguBrit]

I'm gonna love the one when Inzektors are all banned or limited.

[Sleepy]

If I had to pick something, I'd go for Goat Control format.
-Each card was meaningful in it's own right, not like the "throw in 3 cards for this turn's Xyz boss, you'll recover them with pluses soon" fashion of nowadays.
-People had time to think of what to do, and saved the key cards for the key times, and by "saved" I meant, wait for it for many many turns (be patient) xD
-There was more freedom in the cardpool. You could use X card you got form that booster you bought the other day, and it wouldn't be archetype-specific. It would let you experiment more.
-OTKs, did anyone see them much? You could go through your deck with just Draw Phase draws. I mean, consistency is a good thing, but I feel too much search search search derp search effect that get you what you want so easily... it gives me a sort of "less skillful" air (note I did not say "skillless")


To be quite honest, the game would have been more strategy-driven as a whole if
-During the GX era, many of the cards would have been cleverly designed to not need to be "name" specific. Dat feeling when you open a pack and discover you are not interested in any of the 5+ archetypes supported by your entire booster's pulled content.
-During the 5Ds era, Synchros would have been a cleverly added options and versatility to your plays, without speeding up the game too much and becoming centric. Yusei is more of a Synchro maniac than a smart strategist. This is one of the key points where the pase of the game was bumped a lot.

[Sora1499]

This format is pretty cool, but i don't understand why you guys despise mermails so much. i actually like playing against that deck. it sure as hell is better than winderps.

inb4zenmaityshouldbebanned