Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY-mgseMPBs"]https://www.youtube....h?v=uY-mgseMPBs[/url] So YCM? The main subject at hand is this. What do you feel are the primary reason's for shootings? And how do you think we can prevent them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 [img]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/224975_577844965564292_1418374422_n.png[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 I firmly stick to my view: gun laws. Even though there are many other factors, pulling the reins on guns certainly removes one of the major factors. It's no coincidence that America has about 50 times more mass murders than the average of other major countries, correcting for population. Reminds me a month ago when I was at a talk on alcohol awareness from a professor who had just come from America to the UK and casually reminded us of the stark difference between alcohol and gun laws in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Now before I say anything else, I am going to say i give all my condalences to anyone who lost someone in this, becuase it is a tragedy. But this whole afair has made me very angry. Mostly, the media's coverage of it. This guy in particular. The fact that they say why does God allow this to happen, when every single day people die when they could be saved, children, women entire families, entire ethnic groups is annoying. Maybe first they'd like to go to one of the countries where this happens every single day, and count themselves lucky that this isn't an everyday event in America. And they like to make out that this is a special case it seems. Tragic yes, but in no way special. But then my view of how the media covers all these sorts of things is bad becuase there is always some form of scapegoat. Now, moving away from that before I rant to much. My thoughts on the cause: Well aside from my cynical view on humanity where we are all infact terrible people who hid behind a civil apperance. I don't agree with one of the things that has been said to be the cause the fact that the Killer was autistic. I mean saying that is like saying that every single teenager is in a gang, or that everyone with depression is suicidal imo. I actually have autism, and I hate the steriotypes that have been put into place about me already. Blaming autism on this, whilst yes it is a possibly cuase, it will only serve to make things worse for other people with similar mental conditions. The media's influence over people has been well proven through propaganda in the past, and now people with Autism may get treated with abuse which is the last thing anyone would want. The truth of the matter is that the person who did this was simply a disturbed person, and wether that was down to his mental condition is up for debate. I just wish the news would actually just say he was a sick minded individual instead of creating a scapegoat. It's the same really for all shootings. The ones in Norway was it a year or so ago to my knowledge the killer there had no Mnetal illness and he still did a terrible act. And again a scapegoat was made, his religious beliefs if I remember rightly. And as for how to prevent more from happening, I think Rai is kinda spot on with gun laws. If they are harder to get, then it is logically less likely to happen. For places like schools though, increased security is another idea. i mean, whilst it is horrible to think of that possibility, it is still possible to happen, and taking some greater measures to prevent that is a sensible idea. The sad part is, enforcing the gun law, or being able to afford the security. If my views have upset or offended anyone, feel free to take it up with me on a PM instead of clogging up the thread. I will be more than happy to hear your view and elaborate on my own if needs must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ListenToLife Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Rai's point is the main one, in my opinion. The UK doesn't have much of a problem with Gun crime. Yes, it's there (a month or two ago, a guy was shot in the kneecap around the corner from me), but it is rather rare and doesn't happen. The big thing over here is knife crime; because knives are easy to get a hold of and legal to have in a house or something. And, because you cant really ban knives, it's a big issue. So yeah, Gun laws need to be changed over on that side of the pond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael D. Striker Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Here is the problem for America: the 2nd amendment exists. You can't ban guns, but you can make them harder to get. Though, I don't think we can go as far as the UK because of the 2nd amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raine Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Shootings happen because one person doesn't like something and uses a gun to try to fix it or just to vent. Why people feel the need to change things? If someone really wants a gun, they're gonna get a gun. People will always kill people, no need to overreact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 [quote name='DaWeirdGuy' timestamp='1355700891' post='6095315'] Rai's point is the main one, in my opinion. The UK doesn't have much of a problem with Gun crime. Yes, it's there (a month or two ago, a guy was shot in the kneecap around the corner from me), but it is rather rare and doesn't happen. The big thing over here is knife crime; because knives are easy to get a hold of and legal to have in a house or something. And, because you cant really ban knives, it's a big issue. So yeah, Gun laws need to be changed over on that side of the pond. [/quote] Absolutely. In the UK, it's definitely knife crime that's the problem. The solution over here has mostly been stop-and-search, police patrolling and the psychological factor (reducing poverty & violence; especially in teens where it's the problem). Whether that works in America, I don't know. It's certainly harder (in the UK, violence is often gang or mugging related, which is a major contrast from the much more common 'American' mass shooting - inverted commas because all places have them sadly). I mean, I can't really be too harsh on the USA. Working things out over there is much harder. The 2nd Amendment isn't helping with solutions either. But, all that really means is that government just have to put in more effort in trying to resolve it all. The constant deflection of the issue in the media is rather annoying. Pushing the public's eye away from the reality of gun laws is almost cruel. [quote name='Rãine' timestamp='1355701535' post='6095332'] Shootings happen because one person doesn't like something and uses a gun to try to fix it or just to vent. Why people feel the need to change things? If someone really wants a gun, they're gonna get a gun. People will always kill people, no need to overreact. [/quote] Just saying, not really how things work. Restrict gun laws = Less shootings. Common sense, no? Even if it manages to only reduce it by one shooting: that's less grief in this world. [b]Edit:[/b] Meaningful article of the day: 'Even after Newtown, Americans will resist Obama's call to tighten gun laws'. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/16/newtown-americans-resist-obama-gun-laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 [quote]You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody. CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next. You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 While it was more old school, let's remember that the Crusades were a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 What Hatcher pointed out was the other extremely important thing that I would have mentioned (although I disagree with saying that gun control isn't a problem; it quite clearly is). For those who prefer audio-visual stimulation, another version of Hatcher's statement: [center][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4[/media][/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Out of all the things out there that we can blame mass murders on We decide to blame it on there being less god in the world... If there was a holy god gets introduced into our world then it would still be the same, except we believe that there is a god Most of the population today are atheists and what you believe in doesn't make a difference towards who you are and what you choose to do So blaming a lack of god in this world on things like murder and shootings is complete garbage I also second blaming it on the gun control laws with inn the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 > Mike Huckabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cin Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 It's easy to blame God in the cases of mass shootings, but that just doesn't stand up given all the people who don't believe a God, does that mean they're more likely to commit crime? It's easy to forget the victims or forget that they need privacy in a time of such heart ache with the media constantly reminding everyone just what happened and in the process of trying to explain why the killer did what they did, ignore that mass shootings don't need spreading everywhere. Emotional disturbed people (or in the case of the Norweigan mass killer Political Extremists) will always find a way to lash out and the media just compounds (or gives a platform for) it by constantly splashing it over the news. As for gun law, I understand the right to be able to defend yourself, but in that openness it does allow for easy abuse where people can hold of guns easily. Sure you can just clamp down on the rules for owning a gun, but who ever wants one WILL get hold of one still or just use an alternative method which is probably far more brutal to the victims. The best method to prevent these sort of cases is try to identify those that need mental help before they resort to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeguBrit Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I find it ridiculous that in one of the most influential countries in the world you can buy your groceries and death machines in the same place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 [quote name='AlphaMan X' timestamp='1355777917' post='6096043'] I find it ridiculous that in one of the most influential countries in the world you can buy your groceries and death machines in the same place. [/quote] I have never seen a store that sells the two together, but I ate at a KFC combined with a Taco Bell and it was glorious. OT: I actually wonder if these mentally ill shooters do this in a fit of rage, then realize what they have done and that is why they commit suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeguBrit Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 They did do a documentary on the shooting and apparently the culprit was bullied all his life, and he did this because he'd had enough of his life and wanted to end it, but before that he wanted to assume the power and become (as they said on the program) "The Big Man" at least once before he died. I could go into a massive long rant about why people would do such a thing, bringing politics, philosophy and psychology into it, but I'm too tired to do so, so basically some people don't actually know that what they are doing is wrong. For instance, there was the case of a British girl who had an active sexual life at around 12 or 13 and got pregnant fast. This was because her parents would frequently have sex in front of her and her brothers. Because they didn't know any better, they took this as just another thing that happens in life. tl;dr: she got pregnant because of the fact that she saw no wrong in having sex at such an early age from watching her parents do it. The point of that anecdote is the Nature vs Nuture argument, but that is for another time. The gist of it is that the culprit of the Connecticut shootings was around guns all his life because his mother "loved her guns" to the point of having long arguments with neighbors about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Metal Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Honestly, the sales of assault weapons and semi-automatic weapons should not be so loosely sold, this on top of a law that limits clips to about 10 rounds. I actually sell guns for a living and I firmly believe that there is no reason that a person needs a 30 round banana clip, it's just absurd. Outlawing guns is just a silly jesture though, humans have been killing other humans since the beginning of history and nothing is gonna stop that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorSempra Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 [quote name='Death Metal' timestamp='1355792407' post='6096336'] Honestly, the sales of assault weapons and semi-automatic weapons should not be so loosely sold, this on top of a law that limits clips to about 10 rounds. I actually sell guns for a living and I firmly believe that there is no reason that a person needs a 30 round banana clip, it's just absurd. Outlawing guns is just a silly jesture though, humans have been killing other humans since the beginning of history and nothing is gonna stop that. [/quote]It's called "stealing" and "back alley markets", heard of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Metal Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 [quote name='Maxxion' timestamp='1355792483' post='6096338'] It's called "stealing" and "back alley markets", heard of them? [/quote] It's that exact reason why outlawing guns in America would be a terrible idea. There really is nothing that we can do besides make them harder to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altαir Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 [quote name='Overlord Barty' timestamp='1355700488' post='6095309'] Now before I say anything else, I am going to say i give all my condalences to anyone who lost someone in this, becuase it is a tragedy. But this whole afair has made me very angry. Mostly, the media's coverage of it. This guy in particular. The fact that they say why does God allow this to happen, when every single day people die when they could be saved, children, women entire families, entire ethnic groups is annoying. Maybe first they'd like to go to one of the countries where this happens every single day, and count themselves lucky that this isn't an everyday event in America. And they like to make out that this is a special case it seems. Tragic yes, but in no way special. But then my view of how the media covers all these sorts of things is bad becuase there is always some form of scapegoat. [/quote] The media is somewhat a company as well, and they will do what they need to do to obtain money. Unfortunately, that leads to overcoverage on specific topics. But what are we to do? Usually selecting a different media may help, like the newspaper or simple searches online (newspaper is always a good media choice, except when you get awfully conservative or terribly liberal papers). Or live in a more... socialist society, where the government regulates what's said and how much is said. But that's only in my fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kōsuke Ueki Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Okay, let me make something very clear. Adding restrictions to the gun laws are not gonna make things better. Why? Well, allow me to put it this way. You all happen to remember when marijuana, meth, crack-cocaine, etc. had become illegal in the US, and at first, less crime was happening, and people seemed to be at peace. But soon enough, people found out how to smuggle it into the country and start selling it on the streets, finding a way to use these drugs again even though they're at risk of being arrested if they can't get away with selling or using them. Same thing happens with guns. When people are restricted on the use of guns (Like they were prohibited from purchasing or owning one), people will find a way to get their hands on them, no matter if they get caught or not. I just don't see as to why new gun laws would help. It'll only make things worse because then more people will be in illegal ownership of these guns and so what happened in Newtown. If the killer in Newtown was autistic or had any disability, then new laws on Special Education should be made to help prevent the mentally challenged from making such rational choices that could easily take his/her own life in the process. Gun laws aren't the problem. It's the lives that these lawbreakers have suffered through that corrupts them to the point of no return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 But what kind of mentally ill antisocial (since that is usually the type of person that commit these things says the news) would go to the blackmarket to find a weapon? These killings are usually considered spree killings and happen after the perpetrator has "snapped". Sure, the Newtown killer would have still killed his mom and probably still went to the school. However, his weapon would have been a knife or blunt object which makes it easier to overpower him. Imo, the question isn't "is it gun control or mental health", but "what can we do about both". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 [quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1355841320' post='6096835'] Imo, the question isn't "is it gun control or mental health", but "what can we do about both". [/quote] Precisely this. It's impossible to act as if only one is necessary. Both are in order to make it a viable success. [quote name='Double C4' timestamp='1355802913' post='6096517'] Okay, let me make something very clear. Adding restrictions to the gun laws are not gonna make things better. Why? Well, allow me to put it this way. You all happen to remember when marijuana, meth, crack-cocaine, etc. had become illegal in the US, and at first, less crime was happening, and people seemed to be at peace. But soon enough, people found out how to smuggle it into the country and start selling it on the streets, finding a way to use these drugs again even though they're at risk of being arrested if they can't get away with selling or using them. Same thing happens with guns. When people are restricted on the use of guns (Like they were prohibited from purchasing or owning one), people will find a way to get their hands on them, no matter if they get caught or not. I just don't see as to why new gun laws would help. It'll only make things worse because then more people will be in illegal ownership of these guns and so what happened in Newtown. If the killer in Newtown was autistic or had any disability, then new laws on Special Education should be made to help prevent the mentally challenged from making such rational choices that could easily take his/her own life in the process. Gun laws aren't the problem. It's the lives that these lawbreakers have suffered through that corrupts them to the point of no return. [/quote] Your logic points to legalizing cocaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think they happened because the guy felt like beating Breivik's high score (he failed miserably). 3/10 at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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