"an outdated card" [Magician of Faith]

[Aerion Brightflame]

Bring it to 1 and see what happens.

 

If it's like people are fearing, then put it back, if not do a Tsukuyomi.

[byak]

Magician of Faith needs to be banned, it was the reason my Elemental Dragon deck ended up losing the match!

[玄魔の王]

Recycling Spellbooks isn't even that good to begin with when you're better off searching them. When they can utilize powerful non spellbook spells, then it would be good, but they'd need to be able to use something really good for that.

 

Y'mean like these?

 

Monster Reborn

Dark Hole

Mind Control

One Day of Peace

Heavy Storm

Pot of Aravice Avarice

Infernity Launcher

One for One

Maybe a Spellbook or two

Foolish Burial

*list goes on for a while*

 

Yeah, there's a huge list of potential victims.

 

ITT: Running Magician of Faith increases the probability of drawing limited Spell Cards.

 

What? No it doesn't. MoF lets you recycle spells you've already drawn. Drawing her before the crucial spell doesn't help you draw it at all. You've got the process backwards.

[byak]

Y'mean like these?

The only problematic card in that list in terms of Spellbooks is Heavy Storm, which isn't even that good considering it's Spellbooks

[Superdoopertrooper]

What? No it doesn't. MoF lets you recycle spells you've already drawn. Drawing her before the crucial spell doesn't help you draw it at all. You've got the process backwards.

 

ITT: We don't understand sarcasm, and the fact that I was clearly mocking Clairdestroyers post and showing why it was obviously wrong.

[Agro]

ITT: We don't understand sarcasm, and the fact that I was clearly mocking Clairdestroyers post and showing why it was obviously wrong.

It wasn't clearly wrong and especially not by the point you made.

 

The issues MoF would bring to the table are exactly as she described: it retrieves powerful cards that would normally only be used once per duel.

[Superdoopertrooper]

It wasn't clearly wrong and especially not by the point you made.

 

The issues MoF would bring to the table are exactly as she described: it retrieves powerful cards that would normally only be used once per duel.

 

She was clearly wrong. She literally said "Magician of Faith makes limiting Spell Cards irrelevant". A 5 year-old could tell you why that statement is wrong. Limiting a certain Spell Card still means that you have a much lower chance of drawing it in the first place than if it was at 2 or 3.

[Agro]

She was clearly wrong. She literally said "Magician of Faith makes limiting Spell Cards irrelevant". A 5 year-old could tell you why that statement is wrong. Limiting a certain Spell Card still means that you have a much lower chance of drawing it in the first place than if it was at 2 or 3.

We're not talking about a single limited spell card though. Most decks run several. Drawing any of which would make the magician of faith point relevant.

 

Speaking of which, do you play Yugioh?

[Canadian]

Too slow to cause any major problems, but still shouldn't be unbanned imo.

Same logic goes for malicious to 3.

[Superdoopertrooper]

We're not talking about a single limited spell card though. Most decks run several. Drawing any of which would make the magician of faith point relevant.

 

Speaking of which, do you play Yugioh?

 

Ok, so running 3 Monster Reborn is equivalent to running 1 Reborn and 2 Faith? False, dude. It makes a big difference.

 

And seriously, I could not give a flying shit if you used Faith to get back Dark Hole or Heavy Storm or pretty much any limited spell for that matter. Just like I could not give a flying shit if you got back Solemn Judgment or BTH with Mask.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

Too slow to cause any major problems, but still shouldn't be unbanned imo.

Same logic goes for malicious to 3.

Malicious to 3 isn't at all the same logic. Malicious @3 has no logic because it's still fast as fuck and only gets stronger with time.

MoF logic is that it's too slow and doesn't make a big enough impact, and rightfully should come back, which it should. It'd probably be fine @3 tbh.

[Agro]

Ok, so running 3 Monster Reborn is equivalent to running 1 Reborn and 2 Faith? False, dude. It makes a big difference.

 

And seriously, I could not give a flying shit if you used Faith to get back Dark Hole or Heavy Storm or pretty much any limited spell for that matter. Just like I could not give a flying shit if you got back Solemn Judgment or BTH with Mask.

I'm not saying 3 Monster Reborn is equivalent to running 1 Reborn and 2 Faith. I'm saying running 1 Reborn and 2 Faith is  not equivalent to running 1 Monster Reborn.

 

And if you think that getting Heavy Storm back is something to ignore, then you've answered my question about if you even play this game.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

my issue with faith isnt even an issue of game impact. cuz i agree. the impact it will have will barely be more than tsukuyomi. but i dont see any really compelling reason to bring a card back that, while not over the top in its own right, enables over the top cards, even in a slow and balanced way.

 

also trooper, youre a literal turd so if i were you id just find some good reading material and spend time with that. i can give you a list if you want.

[Canadian]

Malicious to 3 isn't at all the same logic. Malicious @3 has no logic because it's still fast as fuck and only gets stronger with time.

MoF logic is that it's too slow and doesn't make a big enough impact, and rightfully should come back, which it should. It'd probably be fine @3 tbh.

I meant that they both could come back but shouldn't.

Faith also does get stronger with time too, depending on the power creep of spell cards.

But that is outshined by the fact that setting monsters just doesn't do enough when most decks OTK you turn 2.

[Superdoopertrooper]

I'm not saying 3 Monster Reborn is equivalent to running 1 Reborn and 2 Faith. I'm saying running 1 Reborn and 2 Faith is  not equivalent to running 1 Monster Reborn.

 

And if you think that getting Heavy Storm back is something to ignore, then you've answered my question about if you even play this game.

 

If you agree with me on the first part, then you don't agree with what Claire said. No need to be a diplomat. Yes, running 2 Faith and 1 Reborn is different to running 1 Reborn, but it's not necessarily better. Drawing the Faiths before the Reborn, which will happen much more often than not, generally means that you'll either have no or sub-optimal targets for Faith. And even if you do manage to get back Reborn with Faith, congrats, you deserved it. You made a deck building choice which sacrificed speed and gave you the potential for dead cards early game in exchange for the ability to potentially light toolbox your graveyard later on for some powerful spells you are running. Perfectly legitimate.

 

I would be more than happy for you to get back your Heavy Storm with MoF. If I overextended my backrow without protection or without setting chainables and you set Faith to get back your Storm, then kudos to you for capitalizing on my recklessness.

[L0SS]

If you agree with me on the first part, then you don't agree with what Claire said. No need to be a diplomat. Yes, running 2 Faith and 1 Reborn is different to running 1 Reborn, but it's not necessarily better. Drawing the Faiths before the Reborn, which will happen much more often than not, generally means that you'll either have no or sub-optimal targets for Faith. And even if you do manage to get back Reborn with Faith, congrats, you deserved it. You made a deck building choice which sacrificed speed and gave you the potential for dead cards early game in exchange for the ability to potentially light toolbox your graveyard later on for some powerful spells you are running. Perfectly legitimate.

 

I would be more than happy for you to get back your Heavy Storm with MoF. If I overextended my backrow without protection or without setting chainables and you set Faith to get back your Storm, then kudos to you for capitalizing on my recklessness.

But if it isn't Monster Reborn, then it could easily be Heavy Storm, or Dark Hole, or anything else. People have more than one spell in there deck, remember. 

[Aerion Brightflame]

If you agree with me on the first part, then you don't agree with what Claire said. No need to be a diplomat. Yes, running 2 Faith and 1 Reborn is different to running 1 Reborn, but it's not necessarily better. Drawing the Faiths before the Reborn, which will happen much more often than not, generally means that you'll either have no or sub-optimal targets for Faith. And even if you do manage to get back Reborn with Faith, congrats, you deserved it. You made a deck building choice which sacrificed speed and gave you the potential for dead cards early game in exchange for the ability to potentially light toolbox your graveyard later on for some powerful spells you are running. Perfectly legitimate.

 

I would be more than happy for you to get back your Heavy Storm with MoF. If I overextended my backrow without protection or without setting chainables and you set Faith to get back your Storm, then kudos to you for capitalizing on my recklessness.

 

Just on the bit in bold, why are you going to be more likely to draw into faith before reborn? Surely the odds are the same.

 

If anything, you're more likely to have drawn into a power spell card before you draw 1 faith, because you run more power spells than you do of faith.

[Wildflame]

I have mixed feelings about this one. It could probably suffer from the Tsukuyumi syndrome (banned card that comes back without making any impact), but on the other side, I think most decks that this could support are silly decks overall.

[玄魔の王]

I would be more than happy for you to get back your Heavy Storm with MoF. If I overextended my backrow without protection or without setting chainables and you set Faith to get back your Storm, then kudos to you for capitalizing on my recklessness.

I kinda gotta give him this one. People lose games because they set too much back row without protection, and I like the thought of punishing reckless moves like that.

 

Having said, that, she can fetch way more than Heavy.

 

Also, she's Piper-able, for what that's worth.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

The logic was on 2 Faith 1 Reborn, but the point should be made that if MoF were limited, the odds of seeing her plus Reborn in one game are minimal.

Also, she's Piper-able, for what that's worth.

That's worth nothing.

[Resident Fascist]

Hit.....

 

Monster Reborn

Dark Hole

Mind Control

One Day of Peace

Heavy Storm

Pot of Aravice

Infernity Launcher

One for One

Maybe a Spellbook or two

Foolish Burial

*list goes on for a while*

 

Then we can talk. As of right now, no. He's a moron. She's broken.

 

Infernities wouldn't play this, lol.

 

I'm a little on the fence with this card. In a slower format, I would definately say she deserves her spot. In today's format? No. As with any card that isn't OMGWTF, it can easily be tested @1 for a bit. I mean, today's format. We have fucking Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning legal, and it isn't even causing any effect on the metagame(just as a sign to how fucked this game is right now).

[Superdoopertrooper]

Just on the bit in bold, why are you going to be more likely to draw into faith before reborn? Surely the odds are the same.

 

If anything, you're more likely to have drawn into a power spell card before you draw 1 faith, because you run more power spells than you do of faith.

 

Probability of drawing a card you're running 2 of > probability of drawing a card you're running 1 of.

 

As for the second part, yes, you'd be more likely to draw a power spell before Faith, but you have no choice over what that card is, hence it's not always going to be that useful second time around and your opponent knows what you've got back. It still doesn't change the fact that what Claire said was wrong, and that's all I was trying to show before. Bringing back MoF is not the same as increasing the numbers of other Limited Spell Cards (Monster Reborn being the main example).

[Aerion Brightflame]

I didn't notice the bit about running Multiples.

 

Actually, to think of it. Won't the only decks that run this be stall orientated decks, like Countdown and Exodia? Since they can reuse One Day, can use Apprentice Magicians for more stall and the fetch, ect. And everyone already accepts those decks shouldn't exist.

 

I mean, this can go to one. It might restrict card design a tonne, but since when has Konami cared for that in recent times.

[Sunshine Jesse]

the problem with this card is that it makes limiting spell cards irrelevant, since theyre freely retrievable. like even if it is slow, making a third of the limited list irrelevant (and actually more like half, since limited trap cards are far fewer in number) even in a "slow" way is self defeating.

That seems to be more of an argument against limiting cards in general than against unbanning this one.

 

(I know that was a huge leap in logic to make, I'm trying to spur discussion on this by playing the devil's advocate.)

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

I don't think people realise that most of those spells are limited because they need to be hard to draw multiples of different cards e.g. drawing Heavy AND Dark Hole, not drawing Dark Hole twice.