An "Ideal" banlist

[Zauls]

The concept of a banlist where everything is where it should be and the game is balanced and skilful and enjoyable is an obvious thing to want to have because it makes the game much more worth playing. Unfortunately, there hasn't been one since I started playing the game competitively (around Tele-DAD format) and there probably never has been one. The problem, really, is lazy unthoughtful card design, Konami's "make broken cards to make money" policy and their retarded-ness when it comes to making the banlist every September and March.

 

So I have been very bored recently and decided to start constructing what I think would be a banlist in which the game is versatile, balanced, skilful, fun and where there is no God-tier. Some decks always will be, and should be, more powerful than others, but not by so much that the under-meta has no chance against them. This is what I thought about when constructing this banlist.

 

I tried my best to get rid of sacky, skill-less, solitaire-esque unfair decks that seem to be running wild at the moment. However, this is definitely NOT a "kill all decks" banlist. Most of the choices are pretty obvious, but there are some weird ones and the places of some cards is debatable. This is still a work in progress and I am open to any suggestions. I have probably just forgotten to add things in some cases.

 

As you are probably guessing, it is quite a long list and I have made in total 48 (now 68) changes. I'm not going to explain them at all in the OP but just ask if you want anything explaining.

 

Anyway, here it is:

[spoiler=Banlist]

[spoiler=Banned]

 

Banned:
Atlantean Dragoons
Monster Reborn

Pot of Avarice

Black Luster Soldier – Envoy of the Beginning

Spellbook Judgment Day

Card Destruction

Morphing Jar

Gateway of the Six

Honest

Archlord Kristya

Self-Destruct Button

Exodia the Forbidden One

Lavalval Chain

Final Countdown

Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness

Dark Armed Dragon

Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger

Royal Tribute

Number 16: Shock Master

Infernity Archfiend

Gladiator Beast Gyzarus

Inzektor Hornet

Naturia Beast

[/Spoiler]

[Spoiler=Limited]

 

Limited:

Super Rejuvenation

Spellbook of Secrets

Shien’s Smoke Signal

Rescue Rabbit

Enthusiastic Beastman Wolfberk

Rekindling

Mystical Space Typhoon

Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World

Torrential Tribute

Number 11: Big Eye

Tidal, Elemental Dragon of Cascades

Blaster, Elemental Dragon of Calderas

Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones

Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags

Fire Formation - Tenki

Evilswarm Ophion

Deep Sea Diva

Ojama Trio

Skill Drain

Machina Fortress

Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner

Solar Recharge

Call of the Haunted

Miracle Fusion

Wind-up Factory

Master Hyperion

[/Spoiler]

[Spoiler=Semi-Limited]

 

Semi-Limited:
Book of Moon

Dandylion

Brotherhood of the Fire Fist – Bear

Harpie Channeler

Formula Synchron

Reckless Greed

[/Spoiler]

[Spoiler=Unlimited]

 

Unlimited:
T.G. Striker

Neo-Spacian Grand Mole

Thunder King Rai-oh

The Agent of Mystery – Earth

Tsukuyomi

Monster Gate

Reasoning

Chaos Sorcerer

A Hero Lives

Magical Stone Excavation

Pot of Duality

Primal Seed

Gladiator Beast Bestiari

Inzektor Dragonfly

[/Spoiler]

[/Spoiler]

 

Discuss my list, make suggestions, maybe even post your own list. You can also talk about what you would like in your idea of a perfect format.

[Canadian]

Requesting you add:

 

Banned:

 

- Final Countdown

- Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness

- Mind Control

- Dark Armed Dragon

- Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger

- Royal Tribute

- Number 16: Shock Master

 

Limited:

 

- Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones

- Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags

- Onslaught of the Fire Kings

- Fire Formation - Tenki

- Judgment Dragon

- Call of the Haunted

- Herald of Perfection

 

Semi-Limited:

 

- Reckless Greed

- Lonefire Blossom

 

Unlimited:

 

- Pot of Duality

- Primal Seed

 

 

And I'd rather replace Super Rejuvination with Gold Sarcophagus.

 

There are probably others, but I agree with most of this list! :)

 

EDIT: Ban Gyzarus, unlimit Bestiari, etc..

 

EDIT 2: Ban Hornet, unlimit Dragonfly, etc..

 

EDIT 3: Stop Infernity loops, etc..

[Lonk]

I personally think that hitting Secrets alongside Judgment is overkill.  Judgment is ridiculous and does need a ban, but no other cards needs to be hit in Spellbooks (They would resort to pre-LTGY Spellbooks, which are good, but not overwhelming for opponents).  Also, you can't really have A Hero Lives @3 existing alongside Elemental HERO Stratos for a perfect list, can you?

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I don't think that an ideal format consists of making the current decks completely unusable and the old decks as overpowered as they used to be. Maybe that's just me?

[cr47t]

KEEP TR4NSMIGRAT1ON ON T3H LIMIT3DZ

Seriously, if it were even Semi-limited, it could use it`s effect on itself for a continuous loop, especially if you already have all 3 of your Cat of Ill Omen in hand to bring Transmigration back again and again.

 

We should unban Sangan and put it back @1, put Self-Destruct Button (the worst card ever) @0, and ban all the Earthbound Immortals. (Just LOOK and READ the Earthbound Immortal monster effects. Only thing more broken than all of them combined (imo) is Self-Destruct Button.)

 

Lastly, keep MST (Mystical Space Typhoon) at either Unlimited or Semi. It`s not like it banishes or destroys any 1 card or stuff like that. Keep it @3, or maybe @2.

[Airride]

ban all the Earthbound Immortals

Funniest thing I've read all day.

[Zauls]

Requesting you add:

 

Banned:

 

- Final Countdown forgot about that one, thanks

- Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness was thinking about this one for a while but decided not to put it on since it is not as good when there are much less otks etc. Thinking about it, though, it is one of the worst designed cards ever and is bad for the game. I will add it.

- Mind Control had this one on but took it off. Still not sure whether to add it or not. The format would probably need testing to really see.

- Dark Armed Dragon good point. Another sacky skill-less card that deserves to go.

- Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger Forgot about this one. One of the worst card designs in history.

- Royal Tribute Completely forgot GKs were a deck. In a slow format, they are a big threat and this card alone makes people comletely rethink their deck construction. I agree.

- Number 16: Shock Master I suppose playing round the Shock-lock is one of the worst things in Yu-Gi-Oh. You either draw an out or you don't. There are plenty of other 3-mat Rank 4 options. Ban sounds good.

 

Limited:

 

- Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones I suppose hitting the 2 most broken splashable ones isn't enough

- Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags see above

- Onslaught of the Fire Kings I may be biased here as I love the deck, but I think hitting Wolfbork, Rekindling and TT is enough, right?

- Fire Formation - Tenki I did already Semi it, but I suppose a searchable RotA for an equally good Type deserves a limit.

- Judgment Dragon Was thinking about this for a while then decided not to add it because Lightsworns don't need it to be good. I think a better hit would be Lumina and Recharge to 1 maybe.

- Call of the Haunted I suppose a slower format would make this a bigger problem. I agree

- Herald of Perfection Another stupid card that takes no skill and makes you just have to draw-end until you get something that you win with. However I've already banned Kristya and Honest so the deck is basically dead, as it relied on Kristya to win.

 

Semi-Limited:

 

- Reckless Greed Also considered this, and I'm starting to think I do want it hit. Its really easy to draw 2-3 in a deck with lots of draw power  in the first place and it encourages OTKs.

- Lonefire Blossom I've already semi'd Dandylion and I though this would be too much. Especially as there is that Fascinating Fiend Plant-Type coming out. I don't want to give too much power back to the Plant engine.

 

Unlimited:

 

- Pot of Duality I suppose it gives way to more versatility in the game as it can add consistency to under-meta decks and make them more competitive. Why not eh?

- Primal Seed Forgot about this one.

 

 

And I'd rather replace Super Rejuvination with Gold Sarcophagus. I more agree with having both on the list. Super Rej can get a stupid amount of pluses for not much effort, and with that new Blue-Eyes structure coming out then better safe than sorry.

 

There are probably others, but I agree with most of this list! :)

 

EDIT: Ban Gyzarus, unlimit Bestiari, etc.. I suppose

 

EDIT 2: Ban Hornet, unlimit Dragonfly, etc.. Again, I see where you're coming from

 

EDIT 3: Stop Infernity loops, etc.. Hmmm, well what would be the best way of doing that? I suppose banning Archfiend would be the obvious one?

 

 

I personally think that hitting Secrets alongside Judgment is overkill.  Judgment is ridiculous and does need a ban, but no other cards needs to be hit in Spellbooks (They would resort to pre-LTGY Spellbooks, which are good, but not overwhelming for opponents).  Also, you can't really have A Hero Lives @3 existing alongside Elemental HERO Stratos for a perfect list, can you?

 

 

 

Spellbooks are too consistent for the good of the game and they encourage very little player interaction. I thought hitting something as well as Judgment Day was necessary, and I decided to go with Secrets. However, it is a deck that I have slightly lacking knowledge of.

A Hero Lives was never played at more than 2 anyway, it was a useless hit. I may put Miracle Fusion to 1, though, now I think about it.

 

 

I don't think that an ideal format consists of making the current decks completely unusable and the old decks as overpowered as they used to be. Maybe that's just me?

 

 

 

I have brought some power back to old decks, yes. That is because old decks are muuuuch less stupid that the new stuff and bringing some power back to them will just increase versatility in the format. Also, old decks are much more fun :)

 

OP has now been updated

 

EDIT: Also banned Naturia Beast.

[ihop]

I'd rather see Gale at 2/3 rather than Whirlwind because Gale is actually genuinely good card design whereas Whirlwind is inherantly broken anyway. Also Transmigration Prophecy should probably still be at 1 because I don't see anyone playing more than 1 anyway and it is true that you can make an "loop" to have infinite cards in deck.

[Agro]

Whirlwind should be banned anyway.

 

And I wouldn't bring A Hero Lives back without killing Stratos.

[mido9]

why do people care about the transmigration loop? Seriously, it's inconsistent, not worth doing, and accomplishes basically nothing.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

why do people care about the transmigration loop? Seriously, it's inconsistent, not worth doing, and accomplishes basically nothing.

 

because if were talking about "ideal" banlists, loops should be curtailed on principle because no matter how inconsistent they are, its not a positive influence on the game.

 

OT: theres some listed cards i have an issue with. mostly why you think gorz isnt banworthy, especially in a format where youve conveniently hit a lot of outs to it. also thinking black whirlwind can come back and isnt horrendous design, ahahaha.

[Aix]

Why CotH?

[seattleite]

If we're gonna limit MST (Which I guess is because it's a skilless 1-4-1) then we might as well limit Night Beam too, which requires even less skill than MST.

[byak]

so are we just going to forget that factory isn't actually a fair yugioh card

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

so are we just going to forget that factory isn't actually a fair yugioh card

 

i dont think its fair. which is why im entirely opposed to bringing a more busted version of it, whirlwind, up to 3 because Blackwing Not Meta.

[byak]

Just ban both

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

Just ban both

 

yeah thats palatable.

[Zauls]

The reason I chose to put Whirlwind back to 2 rather than Gale is because Gale is splashable and would be a very big card in a format like this. A lot of non-BW decks ran Gale back in the day. Also it is run in Harpies and 2 of it would perhaps make them a little too good. Obviously hasn't been tested. I felt like Blackwings needed something to bring them back to competitiveness, so I decided on 2 Whirlwind. Still should be tested. I am aware that it isn't a good card design but it isn't as bad as Wind-up Factory IMO. Maybe giving them an extra Book of Moon is enough, I don't know.

 

Night Beam is NOT as good as MST and I am not even considering putting it on the list. I wouldn't play it if we only had 1 MST. I would stick with Lances instead, even though they do serve a bit of a different purpose. Lance is much more versatile.

 

Gorz is banned now. Read the updated list.

 

CotH is mainly because it would be more difficult to stop with the lack of MST. It is a bit of a silly card to have at 3 anyway. It steals wins basically.

 

The suggestion to ban Factory is a little extreme. Konami already hit Wind-ups to almost a big enough extent. Whether they will be too good in this format is unknown, really. Perhaps a limit of Factory to be on the safe side. It is an awful card design anyway.

 

I did know about the Transmigration loop but still decided to put it to 3 as it really doesn't accomplish very much. If you're really that bothered, I will keep it at 1.

 

A Hero Lives is never played at more than 2 anyway. It was a useless semi-limit. Stratos isn't a good design, no, but it doesn't do anything for the deck other than make it more consistent now that Reborn is banned and Miracle is @1. You can't OTK with it nearly as easily any more, so much so that it isn't worth trying. HEROes are a fair deck with this list, anyway.

[Agro]

If you really think Gale will be THAT playable in a format dominated by... I'm gonna say T.G. Agents, you have another thing coming.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I have brought some power back to old decks, yes. That is because old decks are muuuuch less stupid that the new stuff and bringing some power back to them will just increase versatility in the format. Also, old decks are much more fun :)

How are they less stupid when you don't do anything to prevent them from using their old cards? Also, the word you're looking for is not "versatility" it's "variety", but OTK and swarm are OTK and swarm in my book, so that doesn't exist.

[A Hollow Man]

because if were talking about "ideal" banlists, loops should be curtailed on principle because no matter how inconsistent they are, its not a positive influence on the game.

 

That's a very strange ideal. Why would pursuing it create a more fun format?

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

That's a very strange ideal. Why would pursuing it create a more fun format?

 

it isnt in the slightest. s: loops encourage repetitive play and restrict future card design, both of which are not fun. even if its not competitively viable, loops will lower the number of possible decks and moves, not raise it. if were talking about "ideal" formats (which we are here), then loops should be heavily policed, no matter how viable they are.

[mido9]

Even monster eye OTK loops?

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Even monster eye OTK loops?

But it's Monster Eye, Polymerization, and Type Zero Magic Crusher. They're so good in that they're so bad!

[Zauls]

OK so I've decided to keep Whirlwind @1 and have also decided to limit Hyperion to try and curb the rise of T.G. Agents in a format like this. Hyperion probably should have been limited anyway.

 

 

EDIT: I've quickly build a few decks that I would think would be competitive with this list. One of them was X-Sabers, and I've decided Faultroll needs a limit. Dropping 2 of those guys is way too broken. X-Sabers will still be a really good deck though due to their search power and consistency.

 

They are only quick 5 minute things, and the Mermail one can be explained by the fact that I know absolutely nothing about Mermails, also the Radiance Dragons are proxies for Starform Dragons. The Mermail thing would probably just be a cool fun deck and my build looks inconsistent as hell, but oh well.

 

[Spoiler=Sabers]

[/Spoiler]

[Spoiler=Quickdraw]

[/Spoiler]

[Spoiler=Fog King Mermail]

[/Spoiler]

[Spoiler=T.G. Agents]

[/Spoiler]