Mirror Force

[Toffee.]

When an opponent's monster declares an attack: Destroy all Attack Position monsters your opponent controls.

Discuss.

[Sora1499]

It's still a good card, just really slow. Which says a lot about our format.

[Wildflame]

I actually never expect it so I always rage when I face it. I do my plays with D Prison in mind, not this.

[Lonk]

I don't like how it is Semi-Limited.  Granted, there are several ways of dealing with a mirror force, but it feels like one of those cards that [i]has[/i] to remain limited.  No higher or lower.  I probably hate it because lucksacking a Mirror Force into a loss will occur twice as often, which makes me feel cheated by literal new players.

[Zextra]

[quote name="Wildflame" post="6183777" timestamp="1366330865"]I actually never expect it so I always rage when I face it. I do my plays with D Prison in mind, not this.[/quote] Yet you used it on me today =O But yeah - I find it quite sad that this is no longer the threat it used to be (and when an ultra went for over $30).

[Sleepy]

I don't really mind it being at 2. Just like with Heavy Storm, you have to learn how to not use up all your resourses blindly, because that's when Mirror hurts. People that want to get too greedy and attack for game as soon as they are able to swarm.

 

When I play against this, it might as well be Sakuretsu Armor.

[ihop]

I still main it IRL because it's much better against Mermails than Prison and it's solid against most other decks.

[vla1ne]

I love it. for some reason I usually get hit by heavy storm near the first few turns, and then I pull mirror in the later turns, so I guess I like it just because I get luckier than normal when using it

[Blake]

Should never be higher or lower than 1.

1 creates a healthy, overextension-discouraging mind game. If they have it, and you hit it, and you don't have it, then it's potentially going to ruin your whole game. It's a card that encourages you to get better at the game so that you don't pull stupid stunts like that.

2 makes it so that you're "never safe" from it, meaning even an out to 1 might not be enough, and that anything you do can be for naught, because they simply have a second one to wipe your board. It takes a healthy mind game and amplifies it, making it go from mind game to sheer fear factor.

[Mr. guy]

Should never be higher or lower than 1.

1 creates a healthy, overextension-discouraging mind game. If they have it, and you hit it, and you don't have it, then it's potentially going to ruin your whole game. It's a card that encourages you to get better at the game so that you don't pull stupid stunts like that.

2 makes it so that you're "never safe" from it, meaning even an out to 1 might not be enough, and that anything you do can be for naught, because they simply have a second one to wipe your board. It takes a healthy mind game and amplifies it, making it go from mind game to sheer fear factor.

 

this argument would make sense if mirror force was running amok in the format, or even USED for that matter. Effect destruction isn't what it used to be, with all the self-protection, and effects that activate when somesuch destruction happens. I think it's good at 2 because as previously stated, it punishes reckless play and overextension, and it's not like it can't be stopped. it's non-chainable AND they can prepare for it simply by switching one of their more powerful monsters to defence mode.

 

It's also the kind of card that makes players be able to deal with stupid OTKs.

[Blake]

this argument would make sense if mirror force was running amok in the format, or even USED for that matter. Effect destruction isn't what it used to be, with all the self-protection, and effects that activate when somesuch destruction happens. I think it's good at 2 because as previously stated, it punishes reckless play and overextension, and it's not like it can't be stopped. it's non-chainable AND they can prepare for it simply by switching one of their more powerful monsters to defence mode.

 

It's also the kind of card that makes players be able to deal with stupid OTKs.

... Do you even understand the point of my post? =/

 

It's not even that it's used. At 1, used or not, it exists as a mind game that ANY PLAYER could have any of their set cards be Mirror Force. At 2 it doubles.

 

2 is not good for the game, and the fact that broken shit exists isn't a reason for it to be @2. The broken shit shouldn't exist. It's still mass removal. You shouldn't be having to deal with "Stupid OTKs" in the first place.

 

The fact that it can be countered means nothing. Learn to theory, because that post was full of awful theory.

[Mr. guy]

... Do you even understand the point of my post? =/

 

It's not even that it's used. At 1, used or not, it exists as a mind game that ANY PLAYER could have any of their set cards be Mirror Force. At 2 it doubles.

 

2 is not good for the game, and the fact that broken shit exists isn't a reason for it to be @2. The broken shit shouldn't exist. It's still mass removal. You shouldn't be having to deal with "Stupid OTKs" in the first place.

 

The fact that it can be countered means nothing. Learn to theory, because that post was full of awful theory.

 

Ok, I can see how in an IDEAL format it would be better at 1. But in the current format having it at 2 is more than fine.

[Blake]

So tell me more about how Mirror Force does anything relative this format, post LTGY, and how it doesn't just punish the undermeta.

[BehindTheMask]

So tell me more about how Mirror Force does anything relative this format, post LTGY, and how it doesn't just punish the undermeta.

 

Card is still good against the field. Yeah it can get popped with Marksman and other cards, but every Trap can. Are you going to tell me I shouldnt run cards like Warning and Chain because they can get MST'd?

 

Also, the post LTGY is going to be a different meta where the values of cards in game will change. Why don't you tell me something less obvious.

[Blake]

Card is still good against the field. Yeah it can get popped with Marksman and other cards, but every Trap can. Are you going to tell me I shouldnt run cards like Warning and Chain because they can get MST'd?

 

Also, the post LTGY is going to be a different meta where the values of cards in game will change. Why don't you tell me something less obvious.

I'm talking about post-LTGY. The first half doesn't mean anything because I'm not talking about the pre-LTGY meta, where it can actually DO something.

 

Hell, I'm making an argument it should be at 1, so what exactly were YOU trying to make a point of?

[玄魔の王]

I don't like how it is Semi-Limited.  Granted, there are several ways of dealing with a mirror force, but it feels like one of those cards that has to remain limited.  No higher or lower.  I probably hate it because lucksacking a Mirror Force into a loss will occur twice as often, which makes me feel cheated by literal new players.

 

I've had that feeling of being cheated when an opponent with a 60-card deck full of random crap somehow lucksacks me to death regardless of how good my hand is. I've never had it when I walked head-long into a Mirror Force, because I realised I should have known better. It's a card that's at least conceivable of people running.

 

When I play against this, it might as well be Sakuretsu Armor.

 

Well, a Sakuretsu that doesn't target anyway.

 

2 is not good for the game, and the fact that broken shit exists isn't a reason for it to be @2. The broken shit shouldn't exist. It's still mass removal. You shouldn't be having to deal with "Stupid OTKs" in the first place.

 

I agree completely with your theory. In a slower format 2 of this card would be heavy punishment, and the fact that this broken environment exists should not exist. However, the reality is that it does. 's sThat's a hugely disappointing factor, but it's simply true.

[Wizarus]

This should never have left 1, same goes with Torrential Tribute, you don't counter broken cards by allowing  mass removal to be ran in multiples. The format should have absolutely nothing to do with its placement.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Tbh, a lot of what I've read is whether people believe in using necessary evils to help slow the push for game, or whether people believe these cards should be kept down, regardless of circumstances. 

[BehindTheMask]

I'm talking about post-LTGY. The first half doesn't mean anything because I'm not talking about the pre-LTGY meta, where it can actually DO something.

 

Hell, I'm making an argument it should be at 1, so what exactly were YOU trying to make a point of?

 

Who cares about the post LTGY meta right now? We don't even know the full set list if we are going to get Kerycion and other good OCG imports(like the baby elemental dragons).

 

I'm saying right now the card is very good despite the outs to it. If its so terrible post-LTGY, as  you claim, why should it be @ 1?

[Blake]

Who cares about the post LTGY meta right now? We don't even know the full set list if we are going to get Kerycion and other good OCG imports(like the baby elemental dragons).

 

I'm saying right now the card is very good despite the outs to it. If its so terrible post-LTGY, as  you claim, why should it be @ 1?

Oh, sorry, let me rephrase for you: Elemental Dragon and Prophecy Meta. I assumed this was obvious, and that I wouldn't need to spell it out that I meant with Incarnates and all, though I will admit "Post-LTGY" wasn't exactly accurate, at this time.

 

I'm not saying the card is bad now. I never said ANYTHING about the outs to it. You're arguing a point I agree with to me for no apparent reason.

 

I already covered why it should be at 1. It's not its fault that the format is so awful that it doesn't do anything, but it should still be @1, both from design aspect and mental impact of more than 1.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Torrential and Mirror are both good @2 and shouldn't go back to 1, regardless of the gamestate. Both of them are fair, because you can easily control how effective they are. They slow the game down and also make people think more before making their plays.

[Wizarus]

Torrential and Mirror are both good @2 and shouldn't go back to 1, regardless of the gamestate. Both of them are fair, because you can easily control how effective they are. They slow the game down and also make people think more before making their plays.

 

Gong by this logic, they shouldn't be on the list at all, and should never have been on the list to begin with.

[dokktorawesome]

I like how this card can wipe out all your opponent attack monsters, so if they're playing a spammy deck you can wipe out pretty much all their good monster with a single card.

[Sleepy]

It was amusing that yesterday, I was playing with my brother, and switched a couple monsters to Defense Position before attacking, only to see Dark Mirror Force activate and lol at my carefulness. 

[玄魔の王]

It was amusing that yesterday, I was playing with my brother, and switched a couple monsters to Defense Position before attacking, only to see Dark Mirror Force activate and lol at my carefulness. 

Now see, THAT is an example of being luck-sacked by new players.