The current state of the meta.

[Suibon]

The meta's pretty bad. But then again, when has it ever been "good?" I mean, even the old formats that we look upon through rose-tinted glasses were ghastly at the time. Yata Lock? X-Sabers? Blackwings in their prime, Glads? Do we really think those decks were any better or at least required more thought than the ones on offer at the moment?

 

I'll make an exception to Gladiator Beasts -- the deck bar Cold Wave plays required more thought from its user than is possible now, partly because it wasn't just a spam deck -- and partly because losing Gyzarus to removal is losing a shitload of momentum -- but otherwise the old master has it right, Goat Control enthusiasts notwithstanding.

[werewolfjedi]

Newly banned
All 8 Dragon Rulers
Super Rejuvination
Spellbook Judgment Day
Spellbook Tower
Evil Ophion
Evil Azathoth
Black Luster
Left Leg of Exodia

Newly Limited
All 4 Atlantean guys(Pikeman included)
Recurring Nightmare
Big Eye
Dracossack
Jar of Greed
Bottomless Trap Hole
Rai-Oh

Newly Semi-Limited
Double Summon
Mermaid Archer
Mystic Shine Ball
Grand Mole

????????????????

I would disagree on the tower, I"d say fate and secret instead. the super searches for everything with no danger or use of your Normal summon is too good, and the super powerful utility, and NON TARGETING of the fate quick play made it far more powerful than a utility response card should be.

tower is just a slow +1 to a deck that should be played control. and control decks should be the ones that win through card advantage and single large monsters.

also I'd ban big eye. the fact it's a perma steal is too powerful, and it's hard to play against it once it's on the field  without resorting to a field wipe.

That's my general observation regarding them. I think they're an awesome concept, but they should have been Attribute specific for their Summons, not Attribute and/or Dragon. That's what gives them their disturbing level of synergy, as banishing other Rulers gets you searches, and combined with the chibi Dragons, you can easily banish a Dragon Ruler to SS a Ruler, then use the banished Ruler to grab a chibi version of that same Ruler, which you then use the effect to grab the adult Ruler. You just thinned your Deck by 2+ cards and Summoned another Level 7 monster for barely any effort whatsoever.

 

If they hadn't included Dragons, they'd be amazing tech options, but not a super-synergetic spam engine.

this, this so much. it should have been ELEMENTAL based. at least then it would have been people mixing it with the water deck or mermails, the lavals, and etc. while that may have been giving them options to use those cards, they been out, we can handle most of them.

 

I'll make an exception to Gladiator Beasts -- the deck bar Cold Wave plays required more thought from its user than is possible now, partly because it wasn't just a spam deck -- and partly because losing Gyzarus to removal is losing a shitload of momentum -- but otherwise the old master has it right, Goat Control enthusiasts notwithstanding.

yes agreed, I may not like G.beasts, but they are a skill based deck that force thoughtful choices most of the time.

[Blake]

SWING SWING SWING

Make Gyzarus

SWING SWING SWING

Tag out

SWING SWING SWING

Make Gyza

SWING SWING SWING

Tag Out

 

SO SKILLFUL

 

As long as Gyza's at anything above 1, calling Gladiator Beasts skillful is an utter joke.

[Toffee.]

I would disagree on the tower

You do know that list is sarcastic, right?
While a lot of the choices on it seem pretty legit, not all of them are truly needed.
The obvious joke choices are irrelevant.

[vla1ne]

SWING SWING SWING

Make Gyzarus

SWING SWING SWING

Tag out

SWING SWING SWING

Make Gyza

SWING SWING SWING

Tag Out

 

SO SKILLFUL

 

As long as Gyza's at anything above 1, calling Gladiator Beasts skillful is an utter joke.

I have to agree with this. Gyzarus at 3 makes this entire deck lose it's claim as being skill based. 2 cards killed by a contact fusion is ridiculous. I face gladiators on a daily basis, the thing needs serious limiting. bestiari may be at 1, but that dosent matter when the deck can summon him using Test Tiger, Secutor and Darius. still though. I do have to admit, excluding Gyzarus plays, the deck does take skill to play consistently.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Lol @ Glads being skillful. Dragon Rulers are 1000x more skillful than them. Summoning Laquari and setting 5 backrows is skillful.. how?

[mido9]

You arent always going to set 5 unless you have SLR, you need to know which GB to tag in and when to save them, and be very careful about when to drop bestiari for gyzarus since if he gets BTH'd or gyzarus gets solemn'd you're going to be set back a while, along with other common stuff like which trap to use, when to attack, what to set etc.

[Blake]

Knowing a deck's plays/how to play a deck =/= Being skillful

If that's the case, you're basically conceding that Dragon Rulers are inherently skillful because 90% of the people that pick them up squander the advantage the cards generate badly and will lose to even the shittiest of decks.

[Lonk]

We need a SuperDooperTrooper signal for any of his TCG post shenanigans.

 

The individual Dragon Rulers themselves generally are skillful, since you would need to decide when is the best time to use them in an attribute-focused deck and consider if the cost is worth the payoff.  Together, however, they aren't really skillful.  You can gain advantage just for playing them, which is never a good thing and leads to slippery-slopes that happen too frequently.  Sure, the more skilled player wins in a Dragon Ruler mirror match, but against almost every other deck, the Dragon Ruler player wins even if played in the hands of a not-so-skilled guy (The only way for that player to lose is if they are dueling against an alt-win condition deck [for the sake of this argument, burn and OTK are alt-win conditions], a deck that specializes to eliminate them, going into a card that creates a lame duck situation for them or being able to outplay them [extremely rare]).

 

Going back to the Vampire argument, they actually do require skill to play effectively.  Sure they are slow, but a skilled player who knows how they work and how they interact with each other can make them work fine.  How the player interacts with Shadow Vampire is a shining example of skillful plays.

[Sunshine Jesse]

Sure, the more skilled player wins in a Dragon Ruler mirror match, but against almost every other deck, the Dragon Ruler player wins even if played in the hands of a not-so-skilled guy

 

Yeah, but that's like saying that a Plant/Tele-DAD/Goat Control (whatever gets my metaphor across) deck isn't skilled because it beats starter deck yugi.dek with ease. You shouldn't compare the skillfullness of a deck based on matchups, because matchups inherently tip the scales -against- skill. It's like people who hail Goat Control as the paragon of all formats despite ignoring all the herp derp that existed at that time. The only way you can judge how much skill it takes is how hard it is to use in a vaccum, and play against assuming a decent matchup.

 

Not to mention that skilled decks aren't inherently good for the game, which I believe is a concept that Dragon Rulers perfectly fit.

[~British Soul~]

We need a SuperDooperTrooper signal for any of his TCG post shenanigans.

I forgotten what other member had a signal for them a while ago.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Not to mention that skilled decks aren't inherently good for the game, which I believe is a concept that Dragon Rulers perfectly fit.

 

Decks that are simultaneously powerful, complex and skillful are good for the game, and are pretty much the thing that keeps it going. JOTL and SHSP both look awful from that perspective so why would anyone want to spend money on junk like that which isn't powerful or interesting? If it's not equal to or better than what we have now, there's no point in buying it.

[vla1ne]

Decks that are simultaneously powerful, complex and skillful are good for the game, and are pretty much the thing that keeps it going. JOTL and SHSP both look awful from that perspective so why would anyone want to spend money on junk like that which isn't powerful or interesting? If it's not equal to or better than what we have now, there's no point in buying it.

By your logic. we'll somehow be getting light and dark elemental dragons in the next few months.

[Toffee.]

I forgotten what other member had a signal for them a while ago.

That was Me, and I had made a signal for Pika.
Well, signal to call Pika, that is...

[Mr. guy]

Guys.

 

 

What if Superdoopertrooper is a konami balance dev in disguise?

[~British Soul~]

That was Me, and I had made a signal for Pika.
Well, signal to call Pika, that is...

Oh yeah... now I remember. I had an inkling it was a Pika signal, but I forgotten who had made the signal.

[Blake]

http://duelistgroundz.com/index.php?showtopic=152552&page=60#entry3513081

 

Note how many negs he got. This is the same Horus from YCM.

[Sunshine Jesse]

http://duelistgroundz.com/index.php?showtopic=152552&page=60#entry3513081

 

Note how many negs he got. This is the same Horus from YCM.

I don't see how that's relevant, it more looks like he got negged due to not lurking than anything.

 

DGz logic dictates you read a 49 post thread and not ask questions to make your life easier (although I can get behind the mindset, it's still a bit asinine at times.)

[Lonk]

Decks that are simultaneously powerful, complex and skillful are good for the game, and are pretty much the thing that keeps it going. JOTL and SHSP both look awful from that perspective so why would anyone want to spend money on junk like that which isn't powerful or interesting? If it's not equal to or better than what we have now, there's no point in buying it.

 

 

I'm pretty sure we have different definitions of "powerful" going on here, but saying that poorly-designed cards are what keeps the game alive is very poor logic.  From a logical point of view, getting used to having (by your definition of the word) powerful cards would only continue a vicious cycle that has been established because of a gamebreaking set of cards released.  The format should work in an economic view; many decks should have the chance to compete in the free market, not some looming giants that outshadow other decks from even being able to compete.  Given time, the reset button should destroy the giants, allowing free competition to occur again.  However, the developers of new cards only create cards that would match the power of those giants and end up destroying the competition again, which creates a stagnant market.  You could argue that if every deck was a giant, then everything would be balanced.  Yet, the size of the market is smaller than you think, and doing so means that other giants have to be eliminated in a survival of the fittest competition, which is very nasty.

 

This is why I have hope for JOTL and SHSP, since they introduce more diversity without introducing more of these giants we have grown to fear.  That is the main point of everyone's concerns for the game.

[Birkeland]

I'm still at a loss for what would be considered 'skillful' decks. Are they decks that use an established theme (beatdown, hand control, backrow heavy, etc.), but require the right mindset and strategy? "I should only use X monster/combo mid- to late game, push for advantage from the get-go, etc." Or are they any type of deck that the player has customized for themselves or others? A meta deck that sides anti-meta cards, an archetype deck that can also function as another archetype (Gadgets that also can go into Karakuri), and so on. If nothing else, what would you guys consider skillful decks?

[vla1ne]

I'm still at a loss for what would be considered 'skillful' decks. Are they decks that use an established theme (beatdown, hand control, backrow heavy, etc.), but require the right mindset and strategy? "I should only use X monster/combo mid- to late game, push for advantage from the get-go, etc." Or are they any type of deck that the player has customized for themselves or others? A meta deck that sides anti-meta cards, an archetype deck that can also function as another archetype (Gadgets that also can go into Karakuri), and so on. If nothing else, what would you guys consider skillful decks?

I understand that the meta exists for competition, but at the same time. the meta is not meant to be so broken that nothing other than another tier 1 deck stands any chance. i's not a matter of just when you use the cards, it's also about what cards you can use. two people with the exact same deck, and the exact same hands are not always equals. the player who can maneuver his cards better is the player who will win. and that's what skill is about.

 

My condition for being considered skillful/ having a skillful deck is when you have a deck that finds ways to make unconventional means of playing consistently, or uses common archtypes in ways that are new and interesting. not so much that every single play has to be original, but enough that playing you doesn't feel like playing the exact same steps that every other person uses. In a tournament I expect there to be a specific deck because you're playing to win. but outside of that, be original, find new ways of sustaining consistency, find better combos instead of just using dark hole. it's won't be as efficient when you start to do it, and I'm not saying take out cards like dark hole and heavy storm altogether, but at least try to make plays that make your opponent say "I didn't see that coming!" At the very least, It'll be more interesting than seeing the same old cards, over and over, in every single game.

 

Long story short: By all means, be competitive, but outside of tournaments, please don't stay stagnant. find new ways to get around cards. find a new way to exploit old cards, show that you can successfully improvise if you need to. that's what skill is to me.

[Canadian]

Lots of options that allows the players to make the appropriate play.

Rabbit decks are not skillful. You summon rabbit and make an Evolzar, and thats it.

Synchro-Plants could allow you to do many things. Commit to the field, set up future plays, create outs to threats, etc..

Better players usually win with a certain deck and this is the reason. They know which plays to make and when to make them as well as how their opponent will play theirs.

Even in this clusterfuck format, this is still true.

[DarkWithin9867]

The problem with the meta, as I see it, is tiers. You pick Rulers or Prophecies and become bulletproof except for the occasional T2 player who actually knows what they're doing.

In other words, we need to level the playing field once and for all. I want to play a deck that requires thought and be able to win.

[byak]

I want to play a deck that requires thought and be able to win.

 

soooooo dragons or spellbooks

 

:?

[DarkWithin9867]

Newly banned
All 8 Dragon Rulers
Super Rejuvination
Spellbook Judgment Day
Spellbook Tower
Evil Ophion
Evil Azathoth
Black Luster
Left Leg of Exodia

Newly Limited
All 4 Atlantean guys(Pikeman included)
Recurring Nightmare
Big Eye
Dracossack
Jar of Greed
Bottomless Trap Hole
Rai-Oh

Newly Semi-Limited
Double Summon
Mermaid Archer
Mystic Shine Ball
Grand Mole

????????????????

Why is Draco at 1? It's freakin impossible to get ahold of as it is. If you can manage to get more than one you deserve to do so.

Can you take TER OFF the banned list? XD