Ritual Mechanics.

[Sleepy]

I've always wanted to see Konami do something interesting with Rituals.

As awful of a mechanic it might originally be, I think that, like with pretty much anything in the game, it has potential to grow, but Konami's way of designing it's support is, to be honest, really awful.

 

Either effects like Perfect Herald, that are just complete lockdowns.

The Djinns, which are ok, but don't have the necessary flow to make them a self-standing decent deck at the moment.

Gishikis, which are just about recycling, searching, and looping.

 

So the discussion in this thread is as follows:

What would you suggest for the improvement of Ritual Monsters if you had the chance to do so?

What direction would they take?

What specific design flaws do they have in their core according to you?

 

 

They got such little attention, that the total amount of Ritual Monsters in the game could be compressed in a pile not much bigger than a regular deck.

 

 

Of course, it'd be no good for me to ask suggestions without giving mine first.

 

First, I think Ritual Spell Cards should have additional uses, which they already started doing with Gandalf, Herald, and Northwemko's Spells, as well as the Gishiki Rituals, but it's not exactly what I meant.

 

The way it's been done, it's made so that it supports that Ritual Summon a bit. So you either Ritual Summon or Ritual Summon there. What's wrong with that you say? it means that a deck that depends on that kind of cards must rely heavily on search engines and advantage gaining effects for it to be good, or it becomes crap since you are already losing the card advantage of the few Ritual Tributes AND a Spell that is not good for anything else (and will dead draw if your deck is not build for the sole purpose of just bringing that one Ritual out.

 

I'd basically want Ritual Spells to be somewhat like Normal Spells are, but with a Ritual Icon slapped into it. That'd cushion the inherent loss that Ritual Summoning already is. It wouldn't break the mechanic on itself depending on what Spell effect is given to it. If you think about a Heavy Storm Ritual Spell, of course it's gonna be bad (duh), but I'm sure interesting things can be done with this without having to involve just the Ritual Summoning. 

 

Another alternative, could be that Ritual Spell Cards stop needing to be linked to a specific monster. Of course some could for the sake of balance, but it shouldn't really be a must in my humble views.

 

Second, I must address the elephant in the room here. With the above suggestion, it is obvious that some of the existent support oughts to conflict with all this. Something here and there must break. Someone oughts to say/think something along the lines of:

"Oh but that'd break Manju, Preparation of Rites, Sonic Bird, and X Gishiki effects. OMG with this I'm gonna make them tier 0!!". In response to this, I'd suggest that that previous support be banned. Look at it this way:

 

Current support has to be pluses and over the top search and recycle cards BECAUSE of how the mechanic is right now. Even with seemingly absurd support, they can't fully shine as a mechanic, and whatever is done with it will either be Gishikis 2.0, or underwhelming. In short, is damaging future design. Besides, Ritual Support is actually an outstanding minority of cards. There are literally archetypes that are bigger than this mechanic, and that's saying something. It won't make anyone ragequit, and on the contrary, it'd be a new start for this to flesh out in a new way.

 

Oh but keep in mind that I'm just suggesting the banhammer for cards that conflict with this in a game-breaking way. Old outclassed cards can stay as old outclassed cards, if a very old outclassed card needs to only work for one outclassed monster, that is ok. Old Rituals are more for collectors' sake, and don't need to be bothered. The suggestions I'm making don't even need to change the rules of how Rituals work, it can all be done in effects. As easy as that.

 

 

 

 

It'd allow for more of a chance to main Rituals in different non-absolutely-Ritual-centric decks.

Plus, touching the way Ritual Monsters themselves work would be nice to complete the changes. Keep in mind most of the Rituals out there are vanillas with outdated stats. It is one more thing that hurts them. They are pretty much semi-nomi vanillas that always need Tributes no matter what.

Who knows, it'd be really cool if the start trend was with low Level Rituals like Relinquish or Doriado, so that the Tributing part was soft, and the game could transition into them.

 

 

 

Thoughts? Opinions? etc?

[Maeriberii Haan]

Ritual need more generic ritual spells and specific ritual spells that actually do something else other than summoning the ritual monster. Ritual monster needs to be less crappy and become more usable, in line with Perfection, Demise, and the Evigishkis. They doesn't really need an over the top support, main problem is most of the current rituals are crap. Imo,Fusions is the one who need both new supports and new options, mainly since Poly is crap outside of dedicated decks.

[Aix]

Rituals are inconsistent, cloggy -2s, which is why they are so bad. Preparation of Rites should be banned, but that's about it. Of course, there's Gishki Aquamirror which is horrible design, but that doesn't impact rituals other than Gishkis.

[Sleepy]

Rituals are inconsistent, cloggy -2s, which is why they are so bad. Preparation of Rites should be banned, but that's about it. Of course, there's Gishki Aquamirror which is horrible design, but that doesn't impact rituals other than Gishkis.

 

That much is clear xD

Any suggestion for hypothetical improvement?

 

 

Ritual need more generic ritual spells and specific ritual spells that actually do something else other than summoning the ritual monster. Ritual monster needs to be less crappy and become more usable, in line with Perfection, Demise, and the Evigishkis. They doesn't really need an over the top support, main problem is most of the current rituals are crap. Imo,Fusions is the one who need both new supports and new options, mainly since Poly is crap outside of dedicated decks.

 

Perfection, Demise, and Evigishkis are not exactly what I'd like them to strive for. Those are too badly designed. One reason they are not that strong in the meta is because of the current crappiness of the Ritual mechanic, otherwise you'd call them broken. They still technically ARE broken.

[Maeriberii Haan]

It's sad actually that a mechanic was so crappy it needed several broken supports to be viable. It's already too late to fix the mechanic, all Konami can do now is releasing more powerful rituals(Perfection), supports(Preparation), or better ritual spells(Aquamirror). Most Evigishkis are not broken(bar the draw 1 then spin guys, or Gustkraken), but Aquamirror and the riddiculous ease to search it is what make them broken. Perfection and Demise both have broken effects, balanced by being a ritual. After all this, Konami's effort to support ritual will results in either a total garbage or a broken mess. It's the mechanic's inherent problem.

[:^)]

Ritual Monster just aren't viable anymore, they are basically what Synchros are based off, except Synchros got it right and didn't clog up your deck with a Spell card or the Monster itself.

 

If anything Konami should just leave Rituals to die, a memory of something that once was.

[Sleepy]

Ritual Monster just aren't viable anymore, they are basically what Synchros are based off, except Synchros got it right and didn't clog up your deck with a Spell card or the Monster itself.

 

If anything Konami should just leave Rituals to die, a memory of something that once was.

 

I agree with the first line completely.

Though, I wouldn't terminatingly state that they have no fixing. Designing smart, I'm sure they CAN find a decent midpoint of balance.

I'm not saying it'll ever happen, this is a hypothetical thread, but did you think vanillas would ever be used again at all before Rabbit, Box of Friends, Hieratics, Advanced Ritual Art, became a thing? Anything is possible, really.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Ritual Need:

 

3 Generic Spell that allows a Ritual Monster to be Summoned from the Hand/Deck OR Graveyard respectively (but just 1) like:

#1: Spell that Summons Ritual Monster from Deck with conditions.

#2: Spell that Summons Ritual Monster from hand with conditions.

#3: Spell that Summons Ritual Monster from Graveyard with conditions.

 

Then, I would say a better searcher besides Manjus and synergy with current support BESIDES gishkies (so something Djins could be put to good use).

 

Also, something that allows them to play without exaggerating or too much +s, something like a good -1 that actually is worth the summon (and not something like Summon TG Librarian for rituals, +s off, then -everything for Ritual form of Quasar).

 

That's what they need.

[vla1ne]

I'm currently working on designing ritual support cards that have balanced, useable effects and could help them become something relevant. the problem I see is that most ritual support cards need to be nerfed or just limited so that there can be actual support that allows for plusses without being too broken. Other than that though, it's coming along nicely, and seeing somebody else who still thinks ritual monsters deserve some time to shine makes me happy that not everybody has given up on them.

[Sleepy]

I'm currently working on designing ritual support cards that have balanced, useable effects and could help them become something relevant. the problem I see is that most ritual support cards need to be nerfed or just limited so that there can be actual support that allows for plusses without being too broken. Other than that though, it's coming along nicely, and seeing somebody else who still thinks ritual monsters deserve some time to shine makes me happy that not everybody has given up on them.

That's exactly the way I see it.

Instead of playing around with the way the mechanic works, Konami has just given them the most easy, uninteractive, and advantage-gaining search engines. They still don't do a lot because the monsters themselves haven't evolved. They also try to make the effort and give away the Ritual Spell as a + because of how much of a dead weight card it actually currently is having them otherwise.

 

Make them less dead weight, or give them broken support to make up for them?

Aaaaaaaand Konami says "the latter".

 

All in all. Good Rituals from DM: Relinquished, Shinato, Zork, Masked Beast.

Good Rituals from GX times: Ruin, Demise, Doriado.

Good Rituals from 5Ds times: Northwemko, Gandalf, Herald. Plus whatever Gishikis have.

 

Not the best designs in most of them. Then we have:

[vla1ne]

Hungry burger is tier 0, that thing wins games just by hitting field!

 

     But seriously, Rituals really do need to have cards that let them plus without being plain broken. Gishikis are just badly designed though, especially aquamirror, their problem is that the effects that allow them to plus are easily recycled and have laughable clauses/ restrictions, gishiki is essentially the mistake of thinking that rituals need as many OP cards as possible, they gave the ritual monsters an absurd level of power, and then they made the main spells in the deck not only powerful, but easy to recycle. That method of design will always end up creating unexpected loops, which is bad for the game..

 

Ritual monsters are the kind of cards that need powerful support cards in order to maintain stability, but without limits on those cards, rituals also become the most broken cards in the game. (remember when demise came out? he was pretty much wrecking any deck that couldn't answer him the turn he was summoned.) gishikis proved that giving rituals cards powerful enough to create unlimited loops was not a smart idea. there were at  least 3 different loops that opened up once that level 6 ritual monster came out. one was a mill to death strategy, the other was a more consistent exodia build, and the third was just a pointless loop that allowed you to never run out of cards provided your opponent didn't have a bottomless/solemn/veiler to use against it.

[-Doodle]

I think that if the rituals could be fetched from the deck they wouldnt have been so inconsistant  and more like the extra deck monsters in a way. I also agree more general ritual spells are needed,sort of like aqua mirror but not loopy (Something like to summon only a level 7 ritual, possibly with a different restriction or drawback that wouldnt completly make the card not usable)

[Therrion]

The removal for the need of a Ritual Spell could help, simply tributing monsters that equal their level and may fulfill a single other condition would make it so their only a -2 as opposed to a -3 (unless you're using a 1mat to fit the bill monster, in which case a -1 as opposed to a -2).

Alternatively, the Ritual Spell itself could have a Type/Attribute that fits the entire bill for it even if the monster's Level doesn't, and the Ritual Spell could also net some sort of advantage while in the graveyard (Laval Lady of the Lake style, perhaps). That, or simply do this and make the Ritual Monsters actually good. For example, they made Xyz powerful not only to push the new monster type, but to make sure they were useful over Synchros considering how Synchro heavy the prior format was. Ritual could be treated the same, making monsters with great power levels compared to some of the Xyzs released as of now could also help, while of course still letting the Ritual Spell do something Northwemko style.

[Darj]

A. Ritual Spells being able to Summon the Ritual Monster straight from the Deck.

B. Ritual Spells having a second effect that can be activated while it is in the graveyard, like the most recent Ritual Spells have now.

 

I believe the combination of those two effects is what Rituals truly need. With the first one, you can turn a Ritual Summon into a least a -1, not too diferent to standard Synchro and Xyz Summons, allowing Rituals to keep up when it comes to card advantage.

And the second effect simply gives Ritual Spells more use, and if they can generate a plus (like "Dawn of the Herald"), they would balance the cost of the Ritual Summon; but personally I would stay away of secondary effects that recycle cards or generate a plus because most likely the Ritual Monster will have an effect that either balances the cost of its own Summon or makes the cost worth it, and Gishkis have shown us how card recycling can become a problem.

 

Finally, cards that provide support to specific Ritual Monsters while being part of the archtype of that monster would be great because they would let players build decks dedicated to that Ritual Monster, rather than "pick your Ritual Monster and fill the deck with ARA, Manjus, Sonic Birds and/or Normal Monsters".

With support I am refering to monsters that search for the Ritual Spell/Monster and/or are treated as entire Tributes for the Ritual Summon of that Ritual Monster (like "Ritual Raven" and the second effect of Gishki Shadow/Vision), and Spell/Traps that support both the Ritual Monster and the mentioned support monsters.