My personal take on the next TCG banlist

[Zincoshine]

with the new OCG banlist being announced (and containing no changes) it is time to start discussing what the TCG banlist could change into at the end of this year.

 

I have been playing a lot of matches on devpro and have been slowly making a list. Here is what it looks like now:

 

Banned:

limiter removal (from limited)

This is only used for OTKs, it is an entirely luck-based card with zero skill involved.

necroface (from limited)

This card is used solely to fuck up decks and abuse macro cosmos and d fissure, two cards that never should have been put on the ban list in the first place.

sixth sense (from limited)

this was only unbanned to make money, they have enough now from this card I think

 

Big eye(from unlimited)

Thanks for reminding me about e drags, it's been a while since I duelled them.

 

morphing jar #2 (from unlimited)

Too powerful, easily turns matches around, and as it is a bouncing effect there are very few ways to prevent it or resist it.

 

morphing jar #1(from limited)

If you pass this on to your opponent, it's possible to deck out your opponent in one turn with the right deck.

 

Macro Cosmos (from limited)
d fissure needs to be unlimited again so that D.D decks, angel of zera, and D.D monarchs can exist again.

limited:

Ophion (from unlimited)
Can lockdown any deck that does not revolve around using xyz monsters. see page 3 of this thread for more details.

 

soul absorption

This is only ever used for abusive exploit decks. Best to get rid of it.

kaizer colloseum (from unlimited)

In bujins and malefic decks, this is effectively a supercharged version of vanity's emptiness. At least skill drain malefics can be stopped with royal decree.

solemn judgment (from banned)

This is more costly than solemn warning and thats limited. For many decks this is inferior to solemn warning. Just put it back, it made matches interesting, especially tag matches with 16000 HP.

deck devastation card (from unlimited)

This is a side deck card that can instantly defeat all level 3- decks such as ghostrick or rank 1/2/3 turbo xyz.

dragged down into the grave

This is essentially the same as confiscation except that it gives a nice bonus to the dark world player that used it instead of a 1000LP cost. Broken when used with mind crush and D.D designator also

 

archlord krystia (from semi-limited)

Too powerful can win games by itself or with herald. Too many ways to get out onto the field.(valhalla, tribute, effect, etc). Some might argue that it's downside of returning to the top of the deck might be enough to keep it unlimited but in my opinion it just turns matches into jokes.

 

Herald of perfection (from unlimited)

This can win games all by itself. Also see replies in this thread.

semi limited

rescue rabbit (from limited)

Rescue rabbit helped create a lot of creative decks and was not OP at 2. I've even seen people use it to bring out two thousand eyes idol once and then xyz. Creativity and innovation should not be punished, this need to go back to 2. If this was limited because of evilswarms, you might want to consider that they are hardly meta anymore now that ark knight and belzebuth exist to destroy them.

Reinforcement of the army (from limited)

why do beast warriors have their searcher at semi limited? it's not fair.

legendary six sam Shi En (from limited)

With monsters like belze and ark knight around and gateway of the six sam banned, this card is much less useful than it used to be and can be semi limited.

Neo spacian grand mole (from limited)

Neo spacian decks deserve a chance, plus this isn't too overpowered, there are plenty of effects these days to stop attacks or attack effects. It's causing no problems in the OCG either.

unlimited:
d fissure (from limited)

this was not the problem, the problem was necroface and other cards that abused banishment. How ironic is it that angel of zera was released for the TCG and then the cards it needs in order to function are limited? Also with macros banned there won't be too much trouble with cards like d fissure and macro cosmos shutting down the grave.

[Blake]

This is the most stupid list anyone's posted in ages.

 

It's a mix between a lack of understanding of the gamestate, lack of understanding on how to properly hit a deck, "originality" and butthurt.

 

You also don't seem to understand why certain cards are on the list. I could go over it, but the massive levels of bad choices here are too much to cover in any reasonable amount of time.

 

Learn more about the game before you suggest cards like Rescue Rabbit, Shock Master, and Premature Burial are anything but degenerate.

[Aix]

Totally. The problem with Macro Cosmos and D. Fissure was Necroface.

[Zincoshine]

Totally. The problem with Macro Cosmos and D. Fissure was Necroface.

you've obviously never duelled against a necromill deck.

[Aix]

you've obviously never duelled against a necromill deck.

Of course. That is a relevant Deck that Konami has to pay special attention to. Not Dragon Rulers though.

[Zincoshine]

This is the most stupid list anyone's posted in ages.

 

It's a mix between a lack of understanding of the gamestate, lack of understanding on how to properly hit a deck, "originality" and butthurt.

 

You also don't seem to understand why certain cards are on the list. I could go over it, but the massive levels of bad choices here are too much to cover in any reasonable amount of time.

 

Learn more about the game before you suggest cards like Rescue Rabbit, Shock Master, and Premature Burial are anything but degenerate.

cool elitism bro. I have been playing for quite some time and I am fairly confident in my choices. Instead of trying to put me down how about explaining why those three cards for example are degenerate?

 

For example, how on earth would rescue rabbit be degenrate in today's format with all of dino rabbit's toys being limited or semi limited?

 

How is shock master, which does not have a quick effect, and can only negate either spells, monsters, or traps degenerate if there is only 1 in the extra deck?

 

How is premature burial degenerate when compared to monster reborn? What cards would recycle it consistently to abuse it?

[Blake]

cool elitism bro. I have been playing for quite some time and I am fairly confident in my choices. Instead of trying to put me down how about explaining why those three cards for example are degenerate?

 

For example, how on earth would rescue rabbit be degenrate in today's format with all of dino rabbit's toys being limited or semi limited?

 

How is shock master, which does not have a quick effect, and can only negate either spells, monsters, or traps degenerate if there is only 1 in the extra deck?

 

How is premature burial degenerate when compared to monster reborn? What cards would recycle it consistently to abuse it?

Tell me more about how a card that says make a one-card specific Xyz while sitting on heavy backrow's good for the game.

 

Tell me more about how a cold wave on legs that has pinpoint aim is good for the game.

 

Tell me more about how a recyclable revival card is good for the game, especially while Dewloren exists.

[Zincoshine]

Of course. That is a relevant Deck that Konami has to pay special attention to. Not Dragon Rulers though.

it is one of the reasons why those two cards were limited, they had no involvement in dragon rulers.

[Blake]

it is one of the reasons why those two cards were limited, they had no involvement in dragon rulers.

No it wasn't.

 

The TCG banlist hit Macro and Difi because they were hitting the heavy backrow "you cannot play yugioh" cards. Like Torrential, Bottomless, SJ, Mirror Force at times, D-Pris at times, etc.

 

And why'd they do that? They removed Heavy Storm from the game.

 

Necroface hasn't been relevant in years.

 

Cool confidence bro.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

This guy's list is still better than Beast King Barbaros and The Caculator.

Sigh.....

Dragon Rulers aren't on this guy's list in anyway. Does he play Yugioh?

D Fissure and Macro were issues for a lot of reasons, NecroFace being one. Out of a hundred.

 

Not going into detail about how stupid this is: warriors aren't topping except for messengelato, and messengelato is the problem not this card. Besides, beast warriors have their universal searcher at semi limited anyways.

 

No, messengelato is not.

 

Maldolche messengelato (from unlimited)

This card is just too powerful and there are too many ways to bring it out. Also, it is a warrior and can take advantage of too many warrior support cards.

 

Yeah, I won a game with Messengelato alone once! My opponent wasn't looking at what I was doing, and I didn't even have an opponent, but I still won!

 

RoTA has many, many many other popular uses.

 

 

Herald of perfection (from unlimited)

This can win games all by itself, more powerful than shock master which is banned.

No it can't.

 

 

Shock master (from banned)

This card can create lockdowns, but not with only 1 on the field, besides herald of perfection and krystia are much worse than this anyway.

And Dark Hole Shouldn't be limited because Rageki is better.

 

 

 

Kaizer colloseum (from unlimited)

This card can win games by itself, especially in bujins.

Assault mode stardust (from unlimited)

2 of these on the field is an automatic win, it's just too powerful and many cards have been limited in the past for being able to create loops or unstoppable wins if their number in the deck or extra deck exceed a certain number so I don't see why this one isn't also limited.

 

NOTHING IS AN AUTOMATIC WIN UNLESS IT SAYS IT IS. AND THE WAYS TO ACTUALLY USE THESE CARDS ARE RIDICULOUS. THERE, I SAID IT.

[Zincoshine]

Tell me more about how a card that says make a one-card specific Xyz while sitting on heavy backrow's good for the game.

 

Tell me more about how a cold wave on legs that has pinpoint aim is good for the game.

 

Tell me more about how a recyclable revival card is good for the game, especially while Dewloren exists.

Too bad it doesn't since if there is a heavy backrow there is almost certainly going to be a trap there to stop it. It's why I use kusanagi to sit on the backrow rather than shock master. kusanagi has a quick effect to stop that. shock master doesn't.

 

shock master isn't a cold wave on legs unless you can summon 2 or activate a decree while one, and somehow change it's effect to a quick effect. In the event someone does this, you can just summon something to attack and destroy shock master, it only has 2300 ATK. I've had pleidas get rid of TWO active shock masters before. Most importantly, compare this with herald of perfection that stops everything. shock master can only stop either traps, spells, or monster effects.

OK, you got me on dewloren. I'll remove premature burial from my list.

you still didn't answer on rescue rabbit.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

you still didn't answer on rescue rabbit.

Rescue Rabbit isn't degenerate because Rescue Cat.

[Blake]

Too bad it doesn't since if there is a heavy backrow there is almost certainly going to be a trap there to stop it. It's why I use kusanagi to sit on the backrow rather than shock master. kusanagi has a quick effect to stop that. shock master doesn't.

 

shock master isn't a cold wave on legs unless you can summon 2 or activate a decree while one, and somehow change it's effect to a quick effect. In the event someone does this, you can just summon something to attack and destroy shock master, it only has 2300 ATK. I've had pleidas get rid of TWO active shock masters before. Most importantly, compare this with herald of perfection that stops everything. shock master can only stop either traps, spells, or monster effects.

OK, you got me on dewloren. I'll remove premature burial from my list.

you still didn't answer on rescue rabbit.

Trap Stun's more popular now. MST is run at a minimum 2-3. Traps are more prevalent now, but not to the degree you're implying they are. And counterability is not an argument, so don't even try that.

 

I play agaisnt dragon rulers. Call monsters. Watch as they scoop when they don't have the PWWB.

 

I play agaisnt spellbooks. Call spells. Watch as they scoop.

 

That's just 2 examples, but most decks tend to lean toward one of the three. Shock Master makes those matchups much, much easier, and doesn't do anything but cause unwinnable gamestates where you snowball into advantage and have cards while they can't do shit. Being able to stop only one doesn't mean shit most times. Plus, the backrow argument you used against him works FOR him, too.

 

You're implying Herald of Perfection's not a bad card for the game.

 

I answered Rescue Rabbit. If you missed it, that's your fault.

[Zincoshine]

This guy's list is still better than Beast King Barbaros and The Caculator.

Sigh.....

Dragon Rulers aren't on this guy's list in anyway. Does he play Yugioh?

D Fissure and Macro were issues for a lot of reasons, NecroFace being one. Out of a hundred.

 

Not going into detail about how stupid this is: warriors aren't topping except for messengelato, and messengelato is the problem not this card. Besides, beast warriors have their universal searcher at semi limited anyways.

 

No, messengelato is not.

 

Maldolche messengelato (from unlimited)

This card is just too powerful and there are too many ways to bring it out. Also, it is a warrior and can take advantage of too many warrior support cards.

 

Yeah, I won a game with Messengelato alone once! My opponent wasn't looking at what I was doing, and I didn't even have an opponent, but I still won!

 

RoTA has many, many many other popular uses.

 

 

Herald of perfection (from unlimited)

This can win games all by itself, more powerful than shock master which is banned.

No it can't.

 

 

Shock master (from banned)

This card can create lockdowns, but not with only 1 on the field, besides herald of perfection and krystia are much worse than this anyway.

And Dark Hole Shouldn't be limited because Rageki is better.

 

 

 

Kaizer colloseum (from unlimited)

This card can win games by itself, especially in bujins.

Assault mode stardust (from unlimited)

2 of these on the field is an automatic win, it's just too powerful and many cards have been limited in the past for being able to create loops or unstoppable wins if their number in the deck or extra deck exceed a certain number so I don't see why this one isn't also limited.

 

NOTHING IS AN AUTOMATIC WIN UNLESS IT SAYS IT IS. AND THE WAYS TO ACTUALLY USE THESE CARDS ARE RIDICULOUS. THERE, I SAID IT.

ok, replying one at a time:

I haven't battled dragon rulers in ages, people seem to be more interested in ghostricks, bujins, fire fist, fire kings, machines, maldolches, and the like. It's been fucking ages since I encountered a d ruler deck. You did however remind me to put big eye on the list. That needs to be banned, end of.

messengelato: in my experience once messengelato is special summoned, everything just goes to hell. Even belze can't stop the madness. The straw that broke the camels back for me was when someone actually managed to special summon two of those, use their effects and then summon blade armor ninja.

Herald of perfect: Yes it can.

shock master: are you dyslexic? Where did I say I want shock master unlimited?

kaiser colloseum & assault mode stardust: I'm sorry you don't like my wording, I mean to say that it's almost impossible for many decks to deal with them. Don't make the "lol D.D crow argument". beating a deck should not be dependent on siding in 3 cards and then hoping on your second round you are lucky enough to draw one of them. In any case, I didn't say it should be banned, just limited.

 

 

Trap Stun's more popular now. MST is run at a minimum 2-3. Traps are more prevalent now, but not to the degree you're implying they are. And counterability is not an argument, so don't even try that.

 

I play agaisnt dragon rulers. Call monsters. Watch as they scoop when they don't have the PWWB.

 

I play agaisnt spellbooks. Call spells. Watch as they scoop.

 

That's just 2 examples, but most decks tend to lean toward one of the three. Shock Master makes those matchups much, much easier, and doesn't do anything but cause unwinnable gamestates where you snowball into advantage and have cards while they can't do shit. Being able to stop only one doesn't mean shit most times. Plus, the backrow argument you used against him works FOR him, too.

 

You're implying Herald of Perfection's not a bad card for the game.

 

I answered Rescue Rabbit. If you missed it, that's your fault.

 

 

how on earth did I imply that herald of perfection is not a bad card? I want it limited, of course I think it's a bad card for the game.

Edit: also did someone seriously suggest putting beast king barbaros on the list? Thats hilarious.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

ok, replying one at a time:

I haven't battled dragon rulers in ages, people seem to be more interested in ghostricks, bujins, fire fist, fire kings, machines, maldolches, and the like. It's been fucking ages since I encountered a d ruler deck. You did however remind me to put big eye on the list. That needs to be banned, end of.

messengelato: in my experience once messengelato is special summoned, everything just goes to hell. Even belze can't stop the madness. The straw that broke the camels back for me was when someone actually managed to special summon two of those, use their effects and then summon blade armor ninja.

Herald of perfect: Yes it can.

shock master: are you dyslexic? Where did I say I want shock master unlimited?

I never, ever, said anything about you saying Shock Master and Unlimited. I copied and pasted what you had put. 

Messengelato does NOTHING that is game breaking, period. Thats like saying Ghostricks do so.

And Machines and Dolches aren't popular. Dragon Rulers, man, Dragon Rulers. I can understand how you haven't seen them sense you obviously don't play the game. don't seem to know too much about whats actually the core of all this "ban worthy" stuff.

[Zincoshine]

dragons rulers aren't much if you play with OCG cards, which I do via devpro. Just use ark knight to eat the draccosack. Still, big eye does need to be banned.

 

Edit:

Do you guys think bahamut should be banned? it's even worse and easier to summon than big eye.

[Toffee.]

you've obviously never duelled against a necromill deck.

And this warrants a hit on Soul Absorption... Why?

[goddamnit names are a pain]

dragons rulers aren't much if you play with OCG cards

Agh...my sides....hahaha....

 

This is just too funny....

[Just Crouton]

This seems less "I've seen what is degenerate in the metagame and want to see them gone" and more "my deck had a hard time with these bad cards, so unbanning Shock Master and Cyber Jar, and Limiting Soul Absorption will help me beat bad decks easier."

[Zincoshine]

And this warrants a hit on Soul Absorption... Why?

74,000 ATK dragon of ra says so.

That's not possible in this format, but for the wrong reasons. gold sarco is already limited which is good, all that's needed is to ban necroface and limit soul absorption. Then d fissure and macro cosmos can become unlimited again, or at the very least semi limited.

 

This seems less "I've seen what is degenerate in the metagame and want to see them gone" and more "my deck had a hard time with these bad cards, so unbanning Shock Master and Cyber Jar, and Limiting Soul Absorption will help me beat bad decks easier."

 

 

cyber jar would be useless in my deck actually. shock master would be very useful, not going to lie about that, but as long as herald of perfection is unlimited I will be arguing for this to be limited along with herald of perfection.

 

 

The TCG banlist hit Macro and Difi because they were hitting the heavy backrow "you cannot play yugioh" cards. Like Torrential, Bottomless, SJ, Mirror Force at times, D-Pris at times, etc.

 

That's true, but then konami made this card http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Noblswarm_Beelzebuth which made heavy storm redundant. That card is on my list BTW, needs to be limited.

[Toffee.]

Wait a minute, I'm confused...

limited:
morphing jar #2 (from unlimited)
Too powerful, easily turns matches around, and as it is a bouncing effect there are very few ways to prevent it or resist it.

cyber jar (from banned)
In today's meta this is much less powerful than morphing jar #2 due to many effects these days negating or taking advantage of destruction compared to very few protecting against bouncing which morphing jar #2 does. There is no +5 or anything, you both get 5 cards, it's a +0 therefore. The argument that this would be used for empty jar decks also doesn't work because it is sufficient to just use morphing jar #1 for that by handing it to your opponent and ramming it with all kinds of card effects to keep flipping it.

You can't say "DURRR DARK HOLE IS A CARD" as a means to justifying Cyber Jar, because that same logic applies to Morph Jar as well. And Morph Jar #2 is only really a means of punishing decks that over-extend and not consider all possible options(Dragons, for example), so it's their own fault that they play into it. Also Cyber Jar runs the same logic as Dark Hole; You won't care about the fact each player has the potential to get an absurd amount of card advantage, you only care about the fact it's a walking monster nuke. So no, it's not a +0, because you didn't take into account the fact it also hits the field, and I highly doubt anyone in their right mind would play Jar while they also have monsters out(unless your playing something like fire Kings, but that's irrelevant), and your terrible if you do. Plus, Morphing Jar decks in the first place are degenerate because they are so idiotically luck based, and purely lackluster, that they are just absolutely disgusting.

tl;dr Your argument for Cyber Jar doesn't work.
 

semi limited
machina fortress (from unlimited)
Anything you do to this monster will hit you back hard and it's too easy to summon. Takes no skill to use or summon.

How is a -1/-2 that revolves around player interaction, considered a bad thing? Fortress doesn't have a bouncing effect. Also it only reacts to monster effects for the discarding part, so you can Mirror Force/Torrential/Prison/Lighting Vortex/Dark Core/etc it all day, and you've solved your problem.
If anything(And this is a stretch), you would hit Gearframe, due to Frame's ability to remove the whole player-interaction aspect and even doubles as a safety net, in addition to being a Stratos for it.

EDIT:

74,000 ATK dragon of ra says so.

Really?
Winged Dragon of Ra?
Really?

[Zincoshine]

Wait a minute, I'm confused...
You can't say "DURRR DARK HOLE IS A CARD" as a means to justifying Cyber Jar, because that same logic applies to Morph Jar as well. And Morph Jar #2 is only really a means of punishing decks that over-extend and not consider all possible options(Dragons, for example), so it's their own fault that they play into it. Also Cyber Jar runs the same logic as Dark Hole; You won't care about the fact each player has the potential to get an absurd amount of card advantage, you only care about the fact it's a walking monster nuke. So no, it's not a +0, because you didn't take into account the fact it also hits the field, and I highly doubt anyone in their right mind would play Jar while they also have monsters out(unless your playing something like fire Kings, but that's irrelevant), and your terrible if you do. Plus, Morphing Jar decks in the first place are degenerate because they are so idiotically luck based, and purely lackluster, that they are just absolutely disgusting.

tl;dr Your argument for Cyber Jar doesn't work.
 How is a -1/-2 that revolves around player interaction, considered a bad thing? Fortress doesn't have a bouncing effect. Also it only reacts to monster effects for the discarding part, so you can Mirror Force/Torrential/Prison/Lighting Vortex/Dark Core/etc it all day, and you've solved your problem.
If anything(And this is a stretch), you would hit Gearframe, due to Frame's ability to remove the whole player-interaction aspect and even doubles as a safety net, in addition to being a Stratos for it.

EDIT:Really?
Winged Dragon of Ra?
Really?

ok, fine. lets ban all three jars. enough of this nonsense, I agree with you.

i can somewhat agree with your argument on machina fortress. i will remove it from the list.

as for the winged dragon of ra.... download this and view it in devpro. You won't believe what you see http://filesmelt.com/dl/yugioh_is_a_bad_game.yrp I'm so glad the old format is gone, but you can see from the demo how soul absorption is the main problem as well as necroface and gold sarco. the latter of which has been fixed by being limited. That d fissure would be harmless otherwise.

Edit: anymore comments? I think the list is beginning to look better now with all the constructive feedback it's getting. I'd like more convincing arguments on why shock master is more powerful than archlord krystia and herald of perfection as well as feedback on the other stuff that hasn't been commented on yet.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

74,000 ATK dragon of ra says so.

That's not possible in this format, but for the wrong reasons. gold sarco is already limited which is good, all that's needed is to ban necroface and limit soul absorption. Then d fissure and macro cosmos can become unlimited again, or at the very least semi limited.

 

 

That's true, but then konami made this card http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Noblswarm_Beelzebuth which made heavy storm redundant. That card is on my list BTW, needs to be limited.

If Ra got that high, You're doing it wrong.

TCG Banlist- Discusses OCG cards.

 

as for the winged dragon of ra.... download this and view it in devpro. You won't believe what you see http://filesmelt.com/dl/yugioh_is_a_bad_game.yrp I'm so glad the old format is gone, but you can see from the demo how soul absorption is the main problem as well as necroface and gold sarco. the latter of which has been fixed by being limited. That d fissure would be harmless otherwise.

Yeah, I'll download some random file, enjoy the virus, just to see how right you aren't.

[Toffee.]

as for the winged dragon of ra.... download this and view-

No.
Because that's just poor reasoning.
You lost because [Scrub A] plays [Inconsistent card B] with [Situational card C]; That doesn't warrant a card spontaneously being limit worthy, because, of all cards, Winged Dragon of Ra was played along side it.
It's like saying Sparks should be banned because they played Rulers to deal 7800 damage to you in a single turn, then finished you off with the former.

[Zincoshine]

noblswarm belzebuth and ark knight are coming very soon to the TCG you know. They're in legacy of the valiant.

And yeah, a .yrp file is totally a virus. Are you really that stupid?

was replying to this:

If Ra got that high, You're doing it wrong.

TCG Banlist- Discusses OCG cards.

 

Yeah, I'll download some random file, enjoy the virus, just to see how right you aren't.

-------

No.
Because that's just poor reasoning.
You lost because [Scrub A] plays [Inconsistent card B] with [Situational card C]; That doesn't warrant a card spontaneously being limit worthy, because, of all cards, Winged Dragon of Ra was played along side it.
It's like saying Sparks should be banned because they played Rulers to deal 7800 damage to you in a single turn, then finished you off with the former.

back in the old format it was as consistent as the butterfly dagger exodia OTK. This was a double deck tag match so obviously in a normal match the ATK wouldn't go so high but still quite high. Besides, this is an extreme example anyway, the point I am making is that soul absorption is used for nothing but wacky exploitive decks and we can at least semi limit d fissure and macro cosmos if we get rid of it and necro face.