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Bottomless Trap Hole


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Wait wait wait
Yes and no
 
Banishing it is a lot stronger than putting it in the grave IMO. Negating a summon is dang strong still, but I see Banishing as more harmful. Ace almost never ever never ever comes back. Recycling banished isn't really a thing yet nor does it have a real reason to. At least my definition of recycle says so.
And add to it negating a summon of non extra deck bosses (which is a waste) does not get rid of them for long at all as they are prone to be revived. (They can even use their effect in the grave, right?).

Banishing is certainly stronger than putting stuff in the grave, but there are 3 things Warning has that make it leagues better than BTH:
1. Its Spell Speed 3, so you can't chain stuff like Lance to it. This is the big one really.
2. It formally negates the summon, so Semi-Nomis stay dead.
3. You can use it on little monsters, so it's more live, more versatile, and more useful in most situations.
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Banishing is certainly stronger than putting stuff in the grave, but there are 3 things Warning has that make it leagues better than BTH:
1. Its Spell Speed 3, so you can't chain stuff like Lance to it. This is the big one really.
2. It formally negates the summon, so Semi-Nomis stay dead.
3. You can use it on little monsters, so it's more live, more versatile, and more useful in most situations.

Agree with 1 and even kinda 2.

3 is iffy but I could see it as well.

But Black Horn of Heaven pretty much does the same thing, does it not? Not relevant really though in this conversation.

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Agree with 1 and even kinda 2.
3 is iffy but I could see it as well.
But Black Horn of Heaven pretty much does the same thing, does it not? Not relevant really though in this conversation.

The deal with Black Horn is that it's MUCH less versatile than warning since it only hits inherent summons. Warning can be used basically whenever you want to fizzle a combo whenever you'd like.
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The deal with Black Horn is that it's MUCH less versatile than warning since it only hits inherent summons. Warning can be used basically whenever you want to fizzle a combo whenever you'd like.

It does do that, I will say.

 

But I feel Black Horn is seriously underrated. I mean it almost lives up to Warning. Almost.

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I love reading topics that go on like 4 different tangents within 2 pages, while still being on-topic.

 

I'm obligated to point out that I've lost many a Galaxy-Eyes to Bottomless before. That doesn't require me to advocate the immediate banning of Bottomless. For one, I'd go after Warning first, because it's more painfully and permanently disruptive to plays. Secondly, while I don't like Bottomless, I still play it because it's an excellent card, and I enjoy it being effective against my opponents.

 

I'm sure this is a very unique position among players: Using a card because it's a good, effective card, but disliking that other people use it against me effectively.

 

The problem with judging Bottomless or similar as a "player interaction" card is more because it's a card you sit on while your opponent does his/her combo, and then flip it up at the end result. I think a better example of an interaction card would be like...Enemy Controller or Zero Gravity (I don't want to mention Book of Moon due to its absurd versatility), something that doesn't immediately get rid of a card, but instead puts it into a more vulnerable position and require a different approach to finishing it off.

 

But I digress. I'd sooner see Warning get hit than this, and if this got banned instead of Warning...I'll live.

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THISSSS
THISSSS

 

But evilfusion I can recover from Warning. How am I supposed to recover to Bottomless effectively? 
I really think both are equally as bad.

 

They both do very similar things, in the sense they get rid of a monster you just Summoned. However, Warning is quite a bit worse:

 

Firstly, Warning negates the Summon. This means you can't revive your Synchros, Xyz, semi-Nomis. It stops your play dead and it's very tricky to have a backup plan, as opposed to if your opponent flipped Torrential instead.

 

Secondly, Warning can negate EFFECTS that Special Summon. So if you planned to use a Spell/Trap to Special Summon something, or a Monster Effect, Warning can negate that, and stop your play from going anywhere.

 

Bottomless' banish is what makes it so good. There's no denying that. I'm just stating that Warning is a more dangerous card, for better or worse, because Warning stops you dead in your tracks at almost any stage of your play. Bottomless is a LITTLE easier to work around.

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The card that's most problematic is actually Oppression... Oh wait!

 

In all seriousness, it's not so much getting Bottomless'd on it's own, but there's plenty of annoying stoppers in the game.

Be it Warning, Bottomless, Torrential, Compulsory, etc. There's enough material to make a pure-hate deck.

 

When it goes overboard, you just don't know what to blame or better said "what NOT to blame" since everything is somewhere in the list for a reason. As much as interaction is important, you ought to also be able to complete your intended plays once in a while for it to actually be fun and not just skillful. 

 

 

 

 

All that babbling aside, I have no problem with Bottomless. The game DOES need some sort of immediate action you can respond with. If all games were "wait to use my Fissure next turn", it'd be pretty dull. I'd appreciate it not banishing the monster, but then again, banished cards nowadays are as reachable as Graveyard cards in the early days. That's just the intended purpose, you shouldn't try to reach it back.

 

Warning is much worse. It is Spell Speed 3, it hits too much of a variety of things, and even the cost only works to shorten the Duel if your opponent does get around the play, and it negates the Summon? seriously?

 

I'd love a Warning that made the opponent gain Life instead, and that only applied to effect Summon. It'd complement Horn very well.

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Laughs at certain decks, other decks laugh at it. Overall, I say necessary evil, like having Gorz at 1 (please no at 3 like in OCG).


Gorz isn't the necessary evil, Trag would be. Gorz rewards the user far too much for losing by being a 27 beater AND, to add insult to injury, spawning a token that can kill their biggest monster.
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I've said before that BTH and Warning are not equivalent. In the current meta, Warning is necessary, BTH is not.

 

Both can kill a beatstick, but Warning punishes plays that are "safe" like a Lead Yoke backed up by Lance, Batel-type monsters who will snowball huge advantages if they go through, and "throw hand on field" combos with monsters like Lumina.

 

Bottomless usually presses advantage. Monster tries, monster dies, you keep going. The banish from Bottomless can permakill Grapha and avoid Graveyard effects, but it's mostly a bonus on a 1-for-1 trade. There's less technique involved because it can't kill small utility monsters, and "on-Summon" effects are a lot more common than "on-Graveyard" ones. If you took away the banish it would work about the same.

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Yeah? I want every archetype's boss banned because they ruined all of deck building's creativity. Get the f*** over it and start playing some protection, noobs.

Our "bosses" aren't the only things getting hit.

 

T.G. Hyper LIbrarian is not a boss monster; so on and so forth.

 

And our "protection" is pretty much just Lance and crud like Royal Decree. Which I run. And it doesn't help too much apparently.

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ITT: cards that prevents broken craps from being summoned is unhealthy.

If they JUST stopped broken crap I would not care.

This says no as soon as you Summon from the godang extra deck just so the opponent can sack a win next turn. That is why I hate Warning, Bottomless, and maybe even CED to an extent. They stop OTKS but promote sacky wins.

Then again Yugioh is just sacky wins anyway *shot*

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