[Meta] Why are 90% of cards uploaded to here archetype-related cards?

[Hatefiend]

I understand the idea that people who make cards want to have a general theme in their set, which is great! But don't you all find archetypes to be so boring? Ex. If this monster is _________, Special Summon a "________" Monster from your Deck with 1500 ATK or less. Ex2. This monster cannot be used as an Xyz Material for an Xyz Summon except for the Xyz Summon of a "______" Monster. 


Don't you find effects like that to be boring or uninteresting? I can think of a million mechanics that have never been present or relevant in Yugioh that can be tapped into. 

* Card that disallows either player from synchroing or xyzing monsters. Cannot be activated if controller has previously synchroed or xyzed cards in the duel. Card cannot be negated. Is activated similar to Final Countdown (it doesnt stay on field)

* Card you control gets placed into opponents hand when it dies. 

* Shuffle card into opponents deck, when he draws the card, he cannot play it and takes damage each turn for when the card is in his hand. 

* Switch decks/hands with your opponent for 3 standby phases under certain conditions

* Monster that cannot attack, tributed, xyz'ed, synchroed, or affected by spell/trap cards. Incredibly high defense. Opponents monsters must attack this card. Perhaps make it so it is special summoned in defense mode instead of normal summoned. 
* Have a Russian Doll type card structure where when the 2000 ATK monster dies, summon a 1500 version of it, that card dies and summons a 1000 ATK version of it. None of these monsters should be tributable or xyz/synchro-able. 

* Monster with 0/0, and cannot be destroyed by battle. Cannot be 'set' and cannot have its' battle position changed. During draw phase, you now draw an additional card. 

* Card that can be added from deck to hand during anytime in your main phases. Card is significantly weak due to this fact. 

* Trap or quickspell that can either be used in one of two ways, kind of like Enemy Controller (theres not really many choose one cards that aren't archetype related, besides this card)

* If polar opposite monster attributes on field (ex. fire and water, earth and wind, light and dark), then all monsters on field get some sort of bonus

* Monster that can be classifed as a Monster, Magic, or Trap card and used in all those ways. 

* Card that removes from play half of your deck as a cost. The removing from play cannot trigger other effects. The removed from play cards cannot be affected by other card effects. 

You guys get my point. There's thousands of different choices you can do for Yugioh and I never see anyone really stepping outside the box. Right now on the front page of YCM I see Gagaga support, pop cultural references, new archetypes, type-specific cards. It just bothers me a bit that no one makes stand alone cards with interesting effects like Big Shield Gardna or like Total Defense Shogun. 

 

 

/rant over

Thanks for reading guys.

[goodfusion]

If you feel that people are making boring cards, why not make some of your ideas yourself?

[The Cowardly Dog]

Err, I get your point, however, you are looking at the multiple section. When ppl post in here that means they are uploading +2 cards, and this suits the Archetype better than the single cards.

As for the effects, this is the advanced secgion. Cards in here are designed for the metagame. Have you tried looking in tbe experimental section instead? That's where players post cards with whatever effect they want. Perhaps you would find the unique cards that you want in there.

[Hatefiend]

Err, I get your point, however, you are looking at the multiple section. When ppl post in here that means they are uploading +2 cards, and this suits the Archetype better than the single cards.

As for the effects, this is the advanced secgion. Cards in here are designed for the metagame. Have you tried looking in tbe experimental section instead? That's where players post cards with whatever effect they want. Perhaps you would find the unique cards that you want in there.

 

I appreciate the response but I don't think you understand what I mean. No matter what section, what forum, what outlet, people think Yugioh cards = Archetype based (or some kind of theme like 0 defense & dark, or 100 defense & fire, dark and light & dragon) and so on. Can cards not be designed for the metagame and also be interesting and unique? Cards I'm talking about are interesting splashable cards that can be played in a multitude of different ways similar to cards like Dark Deal (play heavy monster decks to increase changes of discarding a monster), Necroface (can be played in a lot of different ways, can be sort of anti meta), Breaker the Magical Warrior (can use spell counters to continuously fuel him, can bounce back to hand for more S/T removal later), Kinetic Soldier (can be played in defense mode to give huge surprises of damage, can make opponents cards into warriors through others cards), Forbidden Lance (makes a lot of interesting interactions), and Deck Lockdown (can be used with cards like Solomon's Lawbook to lock your opponent out the whole game). 

 

Cards like that are just not as common anymore as they used to be. The game seems to be all about archetypes. Contrast this to a game like Hearthstone where you would say, "He's playing Control Warrior" and not "He's playing Noble Knights" etc. 

[Tinkerer]

Hmm. You seem to have made this account specifically to post this topic, so I'll humor you.

Personally, I feel my cards play and bend Yugioh in a lot of strange ways. I like using/thinking about underused/never used mechanics. However, I find that when I do use a unique mechanic, I like making a series of cards to utilize/maximize that mechanic. This is where archetypes originate for me.

I don't believe people have TOTALLY lost their creativity in terms of unique effects, but the game has progressed itself to a point where consistency usually trumps and the most consistent aspect are cards that work specifically well with each other and are bonded thus (archetypes). Unique singles are cool but fall in and out of favor in the real game. Subconsciously, I think others realize this and are more inclined to create things for pre-defined cards or make their own archetypes.

Trust me, I understand where you're coming from. Who knows? Maybe your spark of enthusiasm may be able to bring a new light of creativity to YCM!

[Aix]

First of all, the play style of Yugioh is to have powerful and often stupidly powerful combos and/or board set-ups. This, in my opinion, is why Yugioh can be fun even if the cards can be quite badly designed (in a game design sense, search card design on Google if you don't know what I mean). Archetypes are the reason which Yugioh is able to have the combos and play styles it does.

 

The synergy that an archetype has which allows it to pull off said combos, as well as the consistency which an archetype has makes archetype-based Decks pretty much completely superior to non-archetype-based Decks. There is almost no way to match the synergy of cards with with in-built synergy like that. I don't play Magic enough to speak intelligently about it, so excuse me if I'm wrong, but Slivers, one of the few archetypes in MtG, are one of the strongest Decks and they don't even search each other the way Yugioh archetypes do. Thus, in Yugioh, non-archetypal cards cannot really match against archetypes without being stupidly overpowered, badly designed and/or abusable.

 

Now you may argue that these combos are possible without archetypes. I do not think you would really be able to do things to this extent as the extreme consistency of Yugioh archetypes and their synergy would be very hard to pull off. In addition, if you were to try to create cards with combo ability, it would be very very difficult to watch out for extremely abusable combos, even without attempting to recreate said combos, abusive cards are easy because Yugioh is an inherently abusable game due to the lack of a resource system (like what Magic has). The fact that a Deck is limited to certain cards inside of an archetype allows it to be kept in check for abuse. In short, the archetypes prevent abuse in an easily abused game like Yugioh.

 

My last point is solely from a cardmakers perspective, rather than from a player's . Archetypes actually give birth to a huge level of creativity due to the fact that you are not only designing specific cards, you are also designing a play style. If you are like me, you even try to create an archetype that can have multiple play styles and customizable on its own. The thought and creativity that needs to go into making an archetype far surpasses that of a single card. Of course, the creativity required in creating a single-cards card pool is greater, but few people are able to go to that effort, and any card pools that have been attempted on YCM have failed.

 

Lastly, Duel Portal. Duel Portal is a program that allows you to use and share your own created cards. In an environment where there are different card makers for a single card pool, if we did not make archetypes, it would be far too easy to create abusive Decks. With archetypes and what I said in the previous paragraph in mind, Duel Portal becomes a card game with infinite customization and creative play styles.

 

Just my two cents. Sorry if something doesn't make sense, I just wrote what came to me off the top of my head and didn't bother proofreading.

[goodfusion]

The synergy that an archetype has which allows it to pull off said combos, as well as the consistency which an archetype has makes archetype-based Decks pretty much completely superior to non-archetype-based Decks. There is almost no way to match the synergy of cards with with in-built synergy like that.

 

I am going to argue that combos like these ARE possible without archetypes. Not necessarily meta-level decks, but still doable. It is easy to make a Type (or Attribute) themed deck and for it work well and have a lot of synergy, for example, a Psychic-Type deck can pump out Synchros and many of the cards work well together. Of course, these decks still follow a theme, just a wider theme than archetypes specifically.

 

Personally, I dislike building decks on an archetype and I try to make it around either a Type/Attribute or a specific card/combo. I'm not really sure why, but I guess it is because having a certain word in the name seems like a really cheap way to make cards work well together, when there are so many other ways already in the game.

[Aix]

If you are talking about Banish Psychics, they are literally an archetype without an official name.

[goodfusion]

If you are talking about Banish Psychics, they are literally an archetype without an official name.

 

Well, I'm just talking about Psychic-Types in general, but it is the same with a lot of Types (Fairy, Plant and Zombie are some notable examples I think). Maybe Psychic wasn't the best example as I agree they act very similarly to an archetype, but the point was is that archetypes are NOT the only way to make well designed cards that combo well together, which is what your post was saying.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Just keep in mind that you actually need to POST cards in this section; not just make a rant about why people design on Archetypes.

This doesn't belong in Banlists/Theory, and we don't have a place for it either.

 

So yeah, lock.

 

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Aix more/less explained the whole thing, so not going to say much.