Serpentine Princess

[Slinky]

 

 

 

If this face-up card is returned from the field to your Deck, selectand Special Summon 1 Level 3 or lower monster from your Deck to your side of the field. Then shuffle your Deck.

 

I'm particularly only bringing this up because of it's interaction with Shuffle Reborn. And that interaction also helps pull Graydles out of the deck and onto the field. Graydles already should be running 2-3 Shuffle due to how important Graydle Slime being on the field is, so running this should not be too much of a stretch.

 

Its' interaction with Shuffle Reborn is also not negated by the likes of Norden. so if this is in your grave. You can IF into it, and just plus like mad (or alternatively, just Shuffle Reborn this card and immediately banish it to trigger Princess). It also isn't hard to search out due to being a reptile (King of Feral Imps). So, if you want to use an R4 engine alongside the Graydles, it just makes this card that much more potent, and into having more uses. 

 

In most cases, it'll take up your normal summon, but Graydles really couldn't care less. They'll gladly sacrifice that normal summon to get a Graydle onto the field, especially if it is a Cobra with an already set Split.

 

So, yeah, discuss.

 

EDIT:

 

Main combo:

Shuffle Reborn a Slime. Summon Princess. Reborn the Princess and draw a card (0). Princess activates summoning any graydle (+1). Tune into Greydle Dragon, and destroy 2 cards. (another +1). It ultimately results in a +2.

 

If that Graydle is Cobra, and you Split it. (-Cobra, - Split -2). Summon 2 more Graydles (+2 = 0). Then Cobra steals something (+2). You can then tune into whatever you need to. 

It's ultimately a massive burst of advantage

[- Minimania -]

So, uh, Compulsory Escape Device anyone?

[goodfusion]

I love the way this makes Aquamirror Cycle a +1 and Compulsory Escape Device a +0. It's overall a good card that just needs somewhere for it to work in and it not being some incredibly stupid and gimmicky deck (I once tried making a deck using this and Earthbound Immortal Wiraqocha Rasca... yeah). Plus it's a Reptile so King of the Feral Imps makes it more splashable.

 

Edit: that combo looks really neat.

[玄魔の王]

So... how does this thing even work? Cards like Reborn Tengu show that effects cannot activate in the Deck.

[goodfusion]

So... how does this thing even work? Cards like Reborn Tengu show that effects cannot activate in the Deck.

 

Except if it specifically says so, like this card does.

[玄魔の王]

Except if it specifically says so, like this card does.

Ugh, I hate cards that act as exceptions for game rules like that.

[goodfusion]

Ugh, I hate cards that act as exceptions for game rules like that.

 

I can fully see why (it must create a lot of trouble with rulings and stuff), but personally I quite like it as it allows for more variety within cards.

[Expelsword]

So... how does this thing even work? Cards like Reborn Tengu show that effects cannot activate in the Deck.

 

How does Cyber Twin Dragon make 2 attacks in the same Battle Phase?

[Toffee.]

This is, this isn't exactly useful outside of Shuffle :/

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

How does Cyber Twin Dragon make 2 attacks in the same Battle Phase?

Additional attacks are a thing that works and makes sense in the rules.

 

This quite literally defies the rules on how effects work, and is likely a case of 'because Konami says so'

[Expelsword]

You're just thinking about it the wrong way.

Monsters can't make more than 1 attack in the Battle Phase, that's the rules, unless a card effect says so.

It's the same way with this, a card effect says so, so it's allowed.

That's the thing about a lot of the manga/anime card discussions "the way it's worded it wouldn't even work" isn't worth the discussion most of the time, because rule #1 is that card effects can subvert game rules.

 

Anyway, back to this card, I'm fairly certain it's the only card like this, and I don't really know why others weren't made, given that returning a face up card to the deck is very rare in the scope of the game. Shuffle Reborn might make this relevant; it'll be interesting to see.

[CLG Klavier]

Card's text always overrides the rules, I don't see the issue in the slightest.

[Darj]

That's what I find so interesting about this card: its effect activating in the deck. I believe it's the only card to come with this mechanic so far (although Metalmorph monsters Summon themselves directly from the Deck, but that's more of an inherent Summon rather than an effect). Most likely the "activate effects from the deck" mechanic won't become a thing anytime soon, but if it does someday, I hope we at least get a Drain Trap designed for them as well (just like Skill, Soul and Mind Drain adress the field, grave/banished and hand respectively).

 

Anyway, the combo with Shuffle Reborn in Greydles does look cute and potentially rewarding, but this card relies on having the Spell card at hand. I'm not sure if it would be worth running it; you would have to dedicate deck space to a couple of copies of this and Shuffles, only to turn the latter into an pseudo E-Tele for Greydles? I would think they got better cards to main, but I don't really know.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Of course it works. I don't think that was really contested from the start. The real issue in this system of rules and exceptions is that it is more difficult to explain to players less familiar with the rules how things work, with Reborn Tengu hit by PWWB an excellent example. You can tell the player that effects cannot activate in the deck, but they can just use chase examples like Serpentine Princess to argue their point.

 

Having so many exceptions to admittedly obscure rules is messy design in general. I understand you don't like talking about design, but things like this make rulings harder for less experienced players to grasp without adopting the mindset of "Konami can and will disagree with themselves, and you need to get used to it."

[CLG Klavier]

Of course it works. I don't think that was really contested from the start. The real issue in this system of rules and exceptions is that it is more difficult to explain to players less familiar with the rules how things work, with Reborn Tengu hit by PWWB an excellent example. You can tell the player that effects cannot activate in the deck, but they can just use chase examples like Serpentine Princess to argue their point.

 

Having so many exceptions to admittedly obscure rules is messy design in general. I understand you don't like talking about design, but things like this make rulings harder for less experienced players to grasp without adopting the mindset of "Konami can and will disagree with themselves, and you need to get used to it."

But it works like that in every single cardgame. Standard rules always apply, UNLESS a card directly conflicts them. Then the card text takes precedence over the rules.

[goodfusion]

 

Of course it works. I don't think that was really contested from the start. The real issue in this system of rules and exceptions is that it is more difficult to explain to players less familiar with the rules how things work, with Reborn Tengu hit by PWWB an excellent example. You can tell the player that effects cannot activate in the deck, but they can just use chase examples like Serpentine Princess to argue their point.

Having so many exceptions to admittedly obscure rules is messy design in general. I understand you don't like talking about design, but things like this make rulings harder for less experienced players to grasp without adopting the mindset of "Konami can and will disagree with themselves, and you need to get used to it."

 

Personally I feel that's more likely due to the rules themselves being too complicated, or at least the fact that there is no proper rulebook that lists all the rules. The rulebook you get in a Starter Deck is pitiful, and the Structure Deck ones still don't mention things like missing the timing, which is just as important part of the rules as any other (I do dislike that rule strongly though, as I feel it's just stupid).

If Konami would make a rulebook that contained such rules it would be very useful.

 

Anyway, I'm going steeply off-topic. Out of curiosity, when this card was released, how many ways were there to actually activate its effect?

[玄魔の王]

Anyway, I'm going steeply off-topic. Out of curiosity, when this card was released, how many ways were there to actually activate its effect?

Monster Recovery was pretty much it.

[Miror B]

Additional attacks are a thing that works and makes sense in the rules.

No it doesn't.

Basic rules say a monster attacks only once per battle phase.

So how can cards attack twice in the battle phase?

Because the card says so. That's literally all it is.

[玄魔の王]

No it doesn't.

Basic rules say a monster attacks only once per battle phase.

So how can cards attack twice in the battle phase?

Because the card says so. That's literally all it is.

"Basic rules"

 

The thing with Reborn Tengu and similar cards isn't a basic rule, it's an interaction between specific card effects ruled on specifically by judges. It's even worse in the post-PSCT era where there are no official rulings on the TCG side.

[Miror B]

"Basic rules"

 

The thing with Reborn Tengu and similar cards isn't a basic rule, it's an interaction between specific card effects ruled on specifically by judges. It's even worse in the post-PSCT era where there are no official rulings on the TCG side.

When a card literally says it activates when returned to the deck, there's no reason for it not to.

If anything you should be saying the Tengu rulings make no sense, not Serpentine Princess' ruling.

[玄魔の王]

When a card literally says it activates when returned to the deck, there's no reason for it not to.

If anything you should be saying the Tengu rulings make no sense, not Serpentine Princess' ruling.

Who says I'm not saying that? When I asked "how does this effect work", my question was about the actual PROCESS of triggering it, ie hat you actually do. The rules say you can't reveal a monster in the deck to use its effect, but she isn't a continuous effect so she doesn't go off at the exact time. And if it can be done for her, WHY can it not be done with something else.

[Miror B]

Who says I'm not saying that? When I asked "how does this effect work", my question was about the actual PROCESS of triggering it, ie hat you actually do. The rules say you can't reveal a monster in the deck to use its effect, but she isn't a continuous effect so she doesn't go off at the exact time. And if it can be done for her, WHY can it not be done with something else.

Because she specifies that she activates when returned to the Deck.

[玄魔の王]

Because she specifies that she activates when returned to the Deck.

You're not listening.

 

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU ACTIVATE THE EFFECT?

 

You can't show off the card. If you can just say "okay, she got returned to the Deck, we both saw it", why can you not do tha with effects like Tengu beyond BKSS bullshit?

 

This is exactly what Giga was talking about, internal inconsistency that makes the gamemore frustrating.

[Miror B]

You're not listening.

 

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU ACTIVATE THE EFFECT?

 

You can't show off the card. If you can just say "okay, she got returned to the Deck, we both saw it", why can you not do tha with effects like Tengu beyond BKSS bullshit?

 

This is exactly what Giga was talking about, internal inconsistency that makes the gamemore frustrating.

The issue isn't with Serpentine Princess though.

 

The whole "can't show the card" thing started with cards like Tengu, Tengu is the ruling issue, not Princess.

 

That's just how the game rolls though.

[CLG Klavier]

I really don't get the issue. Ruling is Tengu can't activate from deck. Meanwhile this SPECIFICALLY STATES IT ACTIVATES IN DECK. Like why is this even.