[Discussion] The Ever-Growing and The Ever-Arising

[VampireofDarkness]

As some or many of you may know, 2099 has recently had some expansions to itself in terms of new members, reaching itself such due to recent moves in the background due to its recent merge. It was unexpected for to suddenly have this growth while being at the position it is currently in, but as such has arisen discussion to some issues brought about. This thread is to discuss these issues, how outdone they are, and discuss solutions.

 

The first of these has been the discussion of Duel Portal itself and its relevance to the group. As much as I really like Duel Portal and what it provides, having it be run by 1 person and the glitches it has within it are bound to cause problems. With a CCG that relies on it for its duels, having it go down essentially means the format half or fully stops for said amount of days. It has been discussed for instead there to be the option of YGOPro. Coding currently is a non issue with the people along the roundabout, but some wish to stick to Duel Portal for one reason or another. If said switch is made, Duel Portal would not be abandoned, but rather be an option rather than a focus. Aside from automation and convienance, YGOPro allows for a more stable region to actually play card wise. All of that being said, YGOPro makes testing a hassle, and thus is where Duel Portal really comes in handy and why I don't think it could be let go while it is still a thing. It's not a thing to rely on as said, but Duel Portal's ability to make testing a lot easier and making changes even easier is a much needed tool. (Something I rather commend seattlelite for)

 

The second issue is a lot simpler but is something I feel is a little more open to options. Short and simple, not everyone can use Skype here and thus communication can be a struggle. The forum also at times can be rather dead due to all the activity being elsewhere. Solutions not only to an alternate option for the chat group and methods to keep this place in motion would all be appreciated.

 

The last but most important issue comes down to the overall number of members itself and how it affects the overall card pool. With 42 members, it can be exhausting to keep track of everybody's submissions, with a possibility of up to 420 generics submitted this format alone (Since currently the limit is 10 each format) and 630 archetype cards being present (15 per 1 archetype), these numbers not counting the possibility of other new members. This is rather scary as a whole and thus opens a lot of ideas and possibilities to keep this in track. The best proposition was given by Nai

[spoiler Proposition]

[2:26:42 AM] Junyi Chen: I support the pool of generics idea that packs can pull from. The 20 selection of people's choice is great too. I would say change the release schedule of packs to every 4 weeks instead of every 3 weeks.

[2:34:49 AM | Edited 2:35:15 AM] Risaurora: As another form of suggestion, I would like it so that imports be released in completely separate packs and follow its own procedures and cycle

[2:37:15 AM] Risaurora: and expanding on the topic of user-based selection to this, perhaps themed extra packs would also follow its own cycle, while the contents could be determined by a public poll

[2:38:56 AM] Risaurora: Archetype would be fine with the current form of having templates being a completely separate thing from packs and submissions (although perhaps Structure Decks would need a new system to account for the new changes), however I believe the mechanics of its purchase should be reworked

[2:40:06 AM | Edited 2:41:28 AM] Risaurora: Buying blank templates, buying other's templates, buying parts of a template, or buying singles from templates (?). The biggest thing here is to scale the prices to the rate of us obtaining PP, and the prices of other things available, as I honestly see that the template system, in comparison with the singles purchase system and the existence of Structure decks to be oddly priced.

[2:41:55 AM] Risaurora: As for custom packs

[2:44:53 AM | Edited 2:45:10 AM] Risaurora: assuming a standard TCG-sized main booster of 100, with 20 likely being user-voted submissions, I would still think that the rest of the 80 cards would be better off being selected by the group of judges from the pool of submissions. Although submitting to the pool itself should be rewarded with PP, to make it a steady form of income for people. Of course, this is assuming that the submission in question is not rejected for being a disaster.

[2:48:46 AM] Risaurora: Back on booster cycles, I would think that something to the effect of 4 weeks for customs booster, 6 weeks on imports, and 4 weeks on extra boosters, would work. Assuming that we start off with the custom booster and the import booster at the beginning, two weeks from that we could release the extra booster so we could get a new content every other week to prevent stagnation. Of course later on this could be adjusted

[2:50:23 AM] Risaurora: Although, as another thought, as big as a concern as 420 generics could be right now, realistically we would get around 250-300 generics being submitted this round with the old submission system, which if coupled with archetypes and the import booster

[2:50:55 AM] Risaurora: would be a healthy point to start things off, assuming a reset is necessary when we move

 

 

Other ideas can be proposed and discussed, but this is an idea to be mentioned as it was quite solid and agreed upon by other members in the Skype chat.

 

Discussion and points driven towards all 3 topics are all much appreciated and valued. Any major changes would like to be taken as soon as possible as to not keep things in a stagnate position, so getting as much feedback as I can is needed to drive things in the right direction.

 

As another note, TheFallenOne12 left 2099 and thus I am looking for a new Singles Shop Manager. Anyone who can fulfill this is much appreciated.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

1. As for the issue regarding DP, if things continue to go as-is, I can understand why you'd want to move stuff to YGOPro. But yes, you all should be aware that adding stuff is considerably more difficult than just uploading the card to DP via here (even with the tutorial that I wrote [or some other member did], along with ripping bits and pieces off of existing stuff). That and certain effects may not work as intended (or may not function at all).

 

In that regard, I think there were 1-2 members who were willing to do coding, but you'd have to ask them if they're still willing to add customs (especially when there are at least 300 or so customs); the Konami imports are of little concern.

 

(I can do some amount of stuff, but by no means am I an expert in doing things; though you can ask about basic setup and small things if you need to; IF the majority of you decide to move over) 

 

[AI testing is nice for checking out the power level of Decks, but it is prone to misplaying more often than not if you don't tell it how to play. That part is also difficult to work with.]

 

That, and designing our own server to keep things intact. [AI testing is nice, but it is prone to misplaying a lot]

 

Overall, DP is better but we should be open to options in case things need to be moved due to the issues with DP. Just understand that sea is the only one coding the thing, and programming is not easy by any means (for those of you who have some degree of knowledge in the subject).

 

As much as I'd like to say Yugioh Virtual Desktop is another option, I have no clue on whether/not it supports Pendulums (likely not); like everything else, there's compatibility issues with operating systems even if it is up-to-date with the current game. That, and you'd need to make sure that ALL members have access to the cards. 

 

(There's that other option that another member made, but as to how effective that will be, I don't know)

 

2. I would suggest having a massive joint PM, but it'd be too much of a hassle to add everyone to the conversation, especially as this place gets bigger. (That, and you all can only add about 50 or so members last time I checked your user permissions; I know staff can add more, but we rarely PM more than 10-20 members at a time; least to my knowledge).

 

An option would be to get a chat room on a server accessible to all members who can't get Skype (Mibbit is an option, but that would also require finding a server to take you in); preferably one that can retain chat logs in case you aren't around to read everything. 

 

As I've mentioned to Darkness (and likely one or two others), while I can use Skype; I either don't have time to be logging onto it every night [via browser] or my computer refuses to load it properly + slows down my drive [desktop version]; hence why I am rarely on the channel. 

 

----

I'll add my two cents about boosters and other matters related to this format at a later time.

[darkfireblade25]

I have agreed in the chat that 20 or so spots in each booster dedicated to people's choice is a good idea. I would still say you would either submit generics, or submit a deck per format and requesting already existing cards for the admins to consider for the next pack if needed be.

[VCR_CAT]

Nai's idea sounds great. I mean, it kind of does mean that not everyone's going to get to have their cards be immediately a part of the pool; but on a larger scale of players that's just not practical. The YGOPro shift sounds fine so long as DP isn't disallowed.

 

For Skype, I have no real ideas on what kind of change that can be made, or what possible venues that can be pursued.

 

I do have a question though, regarding the card pooling, and that's how archetypes will be handled. The generic pooling idea is great; but I do wonder what will be done regarding archetypes to scale back their submissions so that creators are not alienated, but it makes matters more manageable.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Some last-minute thoughts/suggestions:

 

-Archetypes: Putting them on packs is seriously counterproductive outside of extra/side pack stuffs. They should be fully treated as something completely separate, just like our current template system. However, I do believe that we need to make new templates be harder to get. Especially with upcoming changes to the system for obtaining PP, keeping it as easy as it is right now would bite us in the ass sooner or later. Raising the price to buy a blank template (in accordance to the ease of getting PP in the first place), AND giving a cooldown for buying a blank template for each member (something like one per 6-8 weeks) seems ideal.

-Structure Decks: Pricing aside, as I've touched in the original suggestions, the big thing that still need to be handled with this is how often should we get these, and how should we pick the archetype/deck that would be featured in these? Some suggestions could be:

• Tournament Prize: Winner of a tournament gets to submit their archetype as the next structure deck (and get a free copy of one). Structure deck, while being somewhat more restrictive than a blank template, is actually a lot more valuable than a blank template. It's only natural if it could be something that people earn.
• Themed: Just like how the current structure deck system works, the structure decks would be themed on something (summoning method, for example) per release. Something like the new customs pack system could work well (people submit stuffs, the judges pick one of them).

Release-wise, perhaps releasing a pair of SDs per release in a 6-8 weeks cycle (although we shouldn't release one from the start), or one per 4 weeks, should work.

-Post-reset pool: Last thing I'd like to touch. If by doing this migration and the rehaul would require a reset (the most likely outcome), we need to think about how big the pool for our start should be.

Let's do a little calculation: Assuming everyone gets to submit an archetype at the start. Then, we'll get to the customs submission and imports. If those come in two packs, then we'll get 200 cards + archetypes. It is enough card to be functional, however, I believe that it's not enough. I would honestly aim at something between 400-500 cards as the initial pool, not counting archetypes. I'm not sure yet on how should it be split, but with the need of both generic cards and semi specific supports and some engines, the initial pool should be bigger. Customs-wise, and imports-wise.

 

Alright, I think that's all.