Twin Twister

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Discard 1 card, then target up to 2 Spell/Trap Cards on the field; destroy them.

 

So both formats have had a fair bit of exposure to this card by now, and I'm ever more firmly under the opinion it's awful for the game, especially at three. 

 

Looking at the card, it has a cost, that most decks don't even consider a cost anymore (Monarch/Blue Eyes/PK BA, PEPE) or build advantage fast enough that they can afford the cost (Dracopals)

 

The ability to destroy two spells allows the versatility of fitting in the gray area between Feather Duster.

 

Duster, being "slow," but wide spread forces people to not recklessly over-invest in backrow (whether this is good or not is up for discussion). MST and variants (Typhoon, Night Beam, Galaxy Cyclone, etc) on the other hand remove selective backrow and make setting 1 card at a time risky. (Yes, I understand that MST and variants have other uses too).

 

What gets established here is an inequality so to speak. MST punishes setting 1 backrow, Duster punishes setting 2+, but to be truly impactful, it needs to be a +1 or higher, which when accounting for chainable traps, effectively usually means Duster works when 3+ means are set. 

 

Therefore the ideal backrow sets per turn becomes X=0 or 1≤2, with 2 being the ideal number to set accounting for both the limited mass wipe in Duster and MST variants.

 

What Twin Twister does however, is to make setting two terrible. With the cost being "not a cost" for relevant decks, and pressure being applied on the other fronts by MST and Duster, the best course of action become, setting 0 traps.

 

(seen most clearly in the #2 deck in OCG, Blue Eyes, w/ CoTH's phase out)

 

But what about the slow decline in HFD's popularity. That's another thing. Twin Twister being SS2 invalidates the weakness of Duster, mainly cards like Starlight, Chainable Traps, and Counter Traps like Solemn J. Setting 2, the former ideal number is awful, and TT does Duster's job better in most cases. So the outer limit is removed. In order to survive a potential Twister, you would need to set more than 3 cards. Where is this case seen? OCG's #3 deck, Qlis. With a minimal monster line up, Card of Demise can be a +2 to offset the obvious flaw of most backrow not floating. Therefore Qli's can get away with setting multiple cards in an environment with Twin Twister

 

1≤3 or X=0

 

Not every deck can profit off the discard, so MST and its variant still have impact in the metagame and thus set a bottom limit.

 

The 4th case to be observed is, floating backrow. Not very common, but one deck can do it, and that would be the number #1 of OCG, Phantom Knight Speedroid Burning Abyss. Due to the Traps being "monster reborns" in the grave, they can still provide utility after being Twistered. However this is a rather niche case. And even there, the trapline ups are minimal, maybe 6-7

 

In Summary 

 

MOST of the Old Guard backrow, Torrential, BTH, Mirror Force, have seen a major decline in the recent two formats since TT's release. The former "staple" backrow such as Evac and Judgment have lost that staple status, but are still run due to being able to somewhat counteract TT. CoD is too niche for most decks to run, so they cannot counteract the effect of Twin. And floating S/T is even rarer still. 

 

Overall what Twin Twister has done, is made the average deck only willing to set 1 card or set none. So? you might ask. The damage potential of decks has also increased, Blue Eyes, Qli, and even PKSBA can put out 8k in a single turn. Turning the game overwhelmingly to hand traps. Personally, I feel this is a bad direction for the game to go towards. But in that regard, I also feel the proper solution to the backrow problem is to set 1 high utility backrow (chainable or highly reactive like solemns), and have hand traps to back up pushes, so that the opponent will have to -1 (initially) on TT, and you can capitalize further to stop their push with hand traps. 

 

Ie. Something like my dolls, where setting one Burg, and hold Maxx and/or Fader in hand...

 

...but hand traps dilute your deck?

 

Yes, unfortunately they do, again not every deck has the luxury of being able to use HT for secondary purposes (Veiler as a tuner @Blue Eyes, Ghost Oger as a lv3 tuner @PKSBA, Maxx&Fader as Shaddoll Fusion targets@dolls)

 

It's really a no win situation, and has crowded out a great many decks, which is why I feel Twin Twister going to 1 or even 0 is the correct movement for the game.

 

Sorry if I rambled too much

 

[ENMaker]

Just run Threatening Roar and Waboku pal. Set 1 of those pass they Twin Twister just to pop it intending to otk gg you played yourself.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Just run Threatening Roar and Waboku pal. Set 1 of those pass they Twin Twister just to pop it intending to otk gg you played yourself.

That argument works with Duster, but not Twin Twister, cause they can easily have TT set :/

[ENMaker]

That argument works with Duster, but not Twin Twister, cause they can easily have TT set :/

 

The willingness to end phase TwiTwi 1 card is variable. I think most people would wait to see what they draw on the next turn before deciding because chainable backrow like Roar and Waboku is uncommon enough that people largely don't consider it, and feel safe enough just popping before going for plays in the same turn.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The willingness to end phase TwiTwi 1 card is variable. I think most people would wait to see what they draw on the next turn before deciding because chainable backrow like Roar and Waboku is uncommon enough that people largely don't consider it, and feel safe enough just popping before going for plays in the same turn.

Too many instant play starting cards like TGU or Awakening or Scout for that to hold completely true. They might be hesitant, but if they have even a decent hand they usually go for it.

 

Agree that it's variable, that variable usually tends towards, funk it, I'll eat the -1

 

There's also the fact that decks aren't public, you're locking yourself into setting 1 due to Twin Twister, and this could easily be a player who runs MST, in which case you shot yourself in the foot. 

 

MST (and other 141's) in combination with TT (242) really just have made backrow bad like never before

[Blake]

I think the fact that I don't even mind going -1 with this in Shiranui is hilarious.

 

Oh no, I used a slightly better MST because it put sword/Mezuki into the grave.

 

I feel like this is a very "meta minded" card. For the most part, it caters to decks that either want grave setup or just have so much advantage that they don't care about tossing some away, which means this card has the power to create an even wider gap between good decks and some that may be teetering, as we move forward.

 

I'm not going to scream that Undermeta deserves to compete, but it doesn't feel like a very smart idea to implement.

[Sleepy]

That seems to be more of an OCG issue because of the fact you have Duster to sandwich in the pressure from all sides.

Yes it is a bad idea for a format to have any one deck able to hit you everywhere without leaving a safe spot for you to hold on to.

It happened with Nekroz when you had to decide if you left no field and potentially got OTK'd, left no hand and got Exiton wiped, or played moderately and got Trishula'd.

It happened when Inzektors and Wind-Ups were able to turn it into somewhat of a top-decking game with their loops.

It was somewhat present during the Goat era because you had to measure up which limited removal card they had or were less-more likely to use, but this last one had measures to make sure there was thought involved from both sides.

 

In your case, S/T seems to have no safe spot. Have you thought about the chance of hitting Duster instead?

Even if it isn't completely popular to use, the fact that it exists completes the sandwich effect, and the game is more likely to get more bonus advantage S/T as it progresses akin to how Traptrix, Madolche, Ghostrick, Ariadne, etc can just search you cards as a pretty much +1. In fact, that's the whole way Pendulum decks that are competitive operate (when they ARE in their competitive stage at least). So Twin Twister would potentially become less of a full wipe over time if more decks adopt this tendency. Even if Twister itself is used more than Duster by a long shot nowadays.

 

I don't like that it seems to indicate that S/T will seem to need support to even exist in the game down the road if the speed is forced to curve more thanks to it, but that's the first suggestion that came to mind.

[Toffee.]

And now a few years from now, we get-

 

Tri-Twister

Spell / Quick-Play

Destroy 1 card on the field. Then, you can Discard up to 2 cards, and if you do, destroy Spell/Trap cards on the field up to the number of cards discarded. The activation and effect of this card cannot be chained to.

[IQuitDolphin]

I don't even run Twin Twister much since the Twin Twister mindset instantly makes MST better in most scenarios. Decks like Kozmo can't afford the pitch 1, and Atlanteans need their stuff to pitch for Megalo.

[Toffee.]

I don't even run Twin Twister much since the Twin Twister mindset instantly makes MST better in most scenarios. Decks like Kozmo can't afford the pitch 1, and Atlanteans need their stuff to pitch for Megalo.

Atlanteans only want to keep everything because they are a combo-based Deck, and as you stated, they need to keep the things they have so they can Discard them for other cards. So it's easy to understand why a Deck like that wouldn't exactly play Twin Twister.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That seems to be more of an OCG issue because of the fact you have Duster to sandwich in the pressure from all sides.

Yes it is a bad idea for a format to have any one deck able to hit you everywhere without leaving a safe spot for you to hold on to.

It happened with Nekroz when you had to decide if you left no field and potentially got OTK'd, left no hand and got Exiton wiped, or played moderately and got Trishula'd.

It happened when Inzektors and Wind-Ups were able to turn it into somewhat of a top-decking game with their loops.

It was somewhat present during the Goat era because you had to measure up which limited removal card they had or were less-more likely to use, but this last one had measures to make sure there was thought involved from both sides.

 

In your case, S/T seems to have no safe spot. Have you thought about the chance of hitting Duster instead?

Even if it isn't completely popular to use, the fact that it exists completes the sandwich effect, and the game is more likely to get more bonus advantage S/T as it progresses akin to how Traptrix, Madolche, Ghostrick, Ariadne, etc can just search you cards as a pretty much +1. In fact, that's the whole way Pendulum decks that are competitive operate (when they ARE in their competitive stage at least). So Twin Twister would potentially become less of a full wipe over time if more decks adopt this tendency. Even if Twister itself is used more than Duster by a long shot nowadays.

 

I don't like that it seems to indicate that S/T will seem to need support to even exist in the game down the road if the speed is forced to curve more thanks to it, but that's the first suggestion that came to mind.

I agree that Duster is the third culprit in this player in this problem, but I disagree that it's the problem for a few reasons.

 

1) Duster's ability to + depends on entirely on your opponent not playing chainable BR, it's slower than Twin Twister

2) MST and it's ilk hit the 1 BR plays, Dusters hits plays with 3 or more non-chainable BR (and those tend to be more game swinging, ie. Solemn Warning), Twin Twister doesn't entirely solve the problem of set 5's which only a few decks like Tellars and Demise Qlis can manage, instead it hits 1-2 backrow plays. That's the backrow ceiling of most decks.

3) Furthermore, the ability to set Twin Twister, makes any non-floating backrow bad. That's really not a good trend to have. 

4) Empirical Evidence, Duster has been legal for a long time, and Storm longer still, backrow has only really suffered since TT came out, before that basically every deck running 5+ was common

 

Therefore I think TT was the problem more than Duster or the MST variants. 

 

It's also a TCG problem, outside of the Phantom Knights, Pendulumz, and Kozmotown, most S/T don't really float. OCG has all TCG's limited traps at three, so we can "afford" to lose a "power" trap like Torrential or BTH, TCG really can't

I don't even run Twin Twister much since the Twin Twister mindset instantly makes MST better in most scenarios. Decks like Kozmo can't afford the pitch 1, and Atlanteans need their stuff to pitch for Megalo.

Discard Gunde

 

 

I think the fact that I don't even mind going -1 with this in Shiranui is hilarious.

 

Oh no, I used a slightly better MST because it put sword/Mezuki into the grave.

 

I feel like this is a very "meta minded" card. For the most part, it caters to decks that either want grave setup or just have so much advantage that they don't care about tossing some away, which means this card has the power to create an even wider gap between good decks and some that may be teetering, as we move forward.

 

I'm not going to scream that Undermeta deserves to compete, but it doesn't feel like a very smart idea to implement.

 

Exactly, last format it was all, let me discard Scarm/Panth. Before that it was let me discard Juggler. Now it's rando PK card/BA/Dragon

 

I guess we just have to be happy that Shadow Mist got limited before BOSH came out.

 

@Bold

 

Me neither, but the growing distance between the tier 1&2's isn't a good trend to have. The last two formats have been terrible in this regard, and Twin Twister really isn't helping. It's not even like backrow isn't manageable. Konami just went too far this time with this (and solemn Strike IMO)

 

And now a few years from now, we get-

 

Tri-Twister

Spell / Quick-Play

Destroy 1 card on the field. Then, you can Discard up to 2 cards, and if you do, destroy Spell/Trap cards on the field up to the number of cards discarded. The activation and effect of this card cannot be chained to.

Day I quit YGO

[ENMaker]

Run a couple of Artifacts and maybe a Jackpot 7. Psyche them out of it. If you make them afraid to pop your backrow then you're already winning.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Run a couple of Artifacts and maybe a Jackpot 7. Psyche them out of it. If you make them afraid to pop your backrow then you're already winning.

I'm never going to hear the end of that am I? Hahaha

 

Funny you mention artifacts, this build recently got 1st with them, but that goes back to again: Demise can offset even +1 TT

 

[vla1ne]

And now a few years from now, we get-

 

Tri-Twister

Spell / Quick-Play

Destroy 1 card on the field. Then, you can Discard up to 2 cards, and if you do, destroy Spell/Trap cards on the field up to the number of cards discarded. The activation and effect of this card cannot be chained to.

Telling you now, save this, and wait 3-4 years. it will come true.

 

as for TT. at one, it's a very good card that hits 242 while also setting up graveyard plays, honestly, it's hard to judge for me because while it's not what you'd call "broken" it definitely feels too powerful of a card to leave at 3. deck consistency in tier 1&2 is high enough that sacrificing a card to pop 2 of your opponents' cards is something you barely need to worry about,

[Slinky]

Both Solemn Strike and Twin Twisters are cards that really don't deserve to be @3, put both @1 and I'll be happy, With Twisters @1, it won't outclass MST in 95% of decks

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Both Solemn Strike and Twin Twisters are cards that really don't deserve to be @3, put both @1 and I'll be happy, With Twisters @1, it won't outclass MST in 95% of decks

Hit the nail on the head meng

 

Strike does too much for such a minor cost and will really kill sales of counter traps like that new pendulum guy.

 

And TT is as I said.

 

I was hoping OCG would put both down to 1 this list, but I can pretty easily see TT to 1, and Strike to 2, and eventually 1