Upstart Goblin

[jabber2033]

 

So no one will use this for a while.  Discuss.

[Blake]

I'm not mad, but I am sad.

[~British Soul~]

I shouldn't be too surprised it got hit to 1. I'll miss running it though.

[Kaiji]

I mean you can still play the 1 copy, tho you would still have to consider whether Into the Void is worth running as well as one day of peace

[IQuitDolphin]

Just run Cup of Ace :P

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

I feel the same way about this as about Chicken Race. How can a card be fairer than this. A +0 that makes it somewhat harder to kill your opponent. Upstart to 1 but Monarchs untouched. 10/10/10.

[ihop]

Saying "Upstart to 1 but Monarchs untouched" is like saying "I ate an apple and an orange but haven't had any fruit".

[Blake]

I feel the same way about this as about Chicken Race. How can a card be fairer than this. A +0 that makes it somewhat harder to kill your opponent. Upstart to 1 but Monarchs untouched. 10/10/10.

Upstart Limited

Chicken Race Limited

Reasoning Limited

E-Tele Semi'd

 

'untouched'

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

But that's exactly my point, they didn't directly hit Monarch cards. Instead they they hit all the generically applicable cards that a fuckload of other decks also used and left the archetype itself untouched. It annoys me that consistency engines and combo cards from various decks all have to go so Monarchs take a bit of a punch and then find another engine 2 days later.

[Blake]

But that's exactly my point, they didn't directly hit Monarch cards. Instead they they hit all the generically applicable cards that a fuckload of other decks also used and left the archetype itself untouched. It annoys me that consistency engines and combo cards from various decks all have to go so Monarchs take a bit of a punch and then find another engine 2 days later.

You mean the entire... 2 hittable monarch cards? Which leave them completely playable, which the OCG has demonstrated? I mean maybe you can limit erebus as well, but the monarch cards themselves will live on.

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

You mean the entire... 2 hittable monarch cards? Which leave them completely playable, which the OCG has demonstrated?

 

I'd prefer to have 1 deck dead than 4 good generic cards gutted to keep it alive yes.

[Kaiji]

Also something to consider with 1 Upstart, you now have a quantifiable LP cap at 9k (its tied to the percentage of games you draw Upstart) which makes it easier to model OTKs/FTKs with it.

[ihop]

It's not like E-Teleport, Chicken Game and Reasoning are uber fair cards which would only be a problem if Monarchs were around. People have been calling for Reasoning and E-Tele hits for ages, and Chicken Game is just FTK fuel the majority of the time. Upstart is the only debatable hit.

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

It's not like E-Teleport, Chicken Game and Reasoning are uber fair cards which would only be a problem if Monarchs were around. People have been calling for Reasoning and E-Tele hits for ages, and Chicken Game is just FTK fuel the majority of the time. Upstart is the only debatable hit.

 

I don't take as much issue with E-Tele or Reasoning because it was only a matter of time for them. But Chicken Race is completely fair, if you can't get it off the field your essentially going minus, if you're doing the ftk then for funk sake hit the actual win condition of that deck so it can't ever be a thing. The fact that a random +0 that makes killing your opponent harder is at 1 makes me sad in itself.

[Blake]

You cannot blame every FTK ever for Chicken Game. At all.

 

The fact that FTKs all use it shows a problem with the card at its core.

 

Nevermind that another valid example of a deck they're possibly hitting was brought up.

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

You cannot blame every FTK ever for Chicken Game. At all.

 

The fact that FTKs all use it shows a problem with the card at its core.

 

Nevermind that another valid example of a deck they're possibly hitting was brought up.

 

What other FTKs even exist that aren't Magical Explosion variants. Igknight, which dies to any disruption of about 30 steps? Why not ban the actually stupid cards like RML, Life Equalizer, Blaze Fenix, whose only purpose is to facilitate FTKs/OTKs, rather than generic draw power and deck thinning.

[Spinny]

I'll really miss this and chicken race but i cant complain since chicken race was an extremely unfair card that i abused alot.

[GarlandChaos]

This should NOT have been hit at all. So what if it makes your deck essentially 37 cards? You're just giving your opponent 1000 LP to maybe draw something you need/want. This isn't 2006. It's fine at 3.

[Blake]

What other FTKs even exist that aren't Magical Explosion variants. Igknight, which dies to any disruption of about 30 steps? Why not ban the actually stupid cards like RML, Life Equalizer, Blaze Fenix, whose only purpose is to facilitate FTKs/OTKs, rather than generic draw power and deck thinning.

So:

 

Given to supporting degenerate strategies.

Used as part of an 8 or so card engine that means your deck is only 32 cards instead of 40

 

that means your deck is a /5th/ smaller, meaning you get to good cards faster

 

That's a big deal in total.

[IQuitDolphin]

People will still run this, it just won't look as cool in a screenshot.

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

 

So:

 

Given to supporting degenerate strategies.

Used as part of an 8 or so card engine that means your deck is only 32 cards instead of 40

 

that means your deck is a /5th/ smaller, meaning you get to good cards faster

 

That's a big deal in total.

 

Degenerate is a subjective and arbitrary description of anything, and anyway if it's supporting so-called degenerate strategies, again, just hit the cards that actually give the deck a win condition rather than one of various cards that facilitates it being possible.

 

Yes, it's a good engine. What's wrong with that. Kozmos don't use it, D/D/Ds don't, Blue-Eyes to my knowledge doesn't, BA/PK doesn't. Monarchs were the only relevant deck that I know of that used it. Otherwise it's just a good consistency booster for decks that can't reliably search or burn through their deck on their own. This is at this point in the wrong thread entirely but funk sake, just ban the cards that are involved in literally nothing but FTK/OTKs (RML, Equalizer), not the completely fair deck thinners, because it only pushes the problem to the side for a while until a new engine crops up rather than killing it outright.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Realistically speaking, this wasn't banned because of equalizer. That generally isn't how TCG operates.

[Blake]

Degenerate is a subjective and arbitrary description of anything, and anyway if it's supporting so-called degenerate strategies, again, just hit the cards that actually give the deck a win condition rather than one of various cards that facilitates it being possible.

 

Yes, it's a good engine. What's wrong with that. Kozmos don't use it, D/D/Ds don't, Blue-Eyes to my knowledge doesn't, BA/PK doesn't. Monarchs were the only relevant deck that I know of that used it. Otherwise it's just a good consistency booster for decks that can't reliably search or burn through their deck on their own. This is at this point in the wrong thread entirely but funk sake, just ban the cards that are involved in literally nothing but FTK/OTKs (RML, Equalizer), not the completely fair deck thinners, because it only pushes the problem to the side for a while until a new engine crops up rather than killing it outright.

An FTK. That harms the gamestate, and that's not sujective. At all. Arguing "But hit the decks!" doesn't work when the decks themselves arent' always the problem.

 

Monarch uses it. Dracopal COULD use it. Blue-Eyes would have TCG Side, if they used the field spell, because the OCG isn't as savvy for this sort of thing.

 

Saying "B-but muh relevant decks!" also doesn't work. Should you not hit a problem engine? I mean, really, being able to play a 32 card deck is funking dumb in a game with a 40 minimum.

 

again, you can debate upstart, but Chicken Game is a card that was used to fuel unfair strategies, and has been something players wanted banned. You would be in the minority to be upset about this ban.

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

An FTK. That harms the gamestate, and that's not sujective. At all. Arguing "But hit the decks!" doesn't work when the decks themselves arent' always the problem.

 

Monarch uses it. Dracopal COULD use it. Blue-Eyes would have TCG Side, if they used the field spell, because the OCG isn't as savvy for this sort of thing.

 

Saying "B-but muh relevant decks!" also doesn't work. Should you not hit a problem engine? I mean, really, being able to play a 32 card deck is funking dumb in a game with a 40 minimum.

 

again, you can debate upstart, but Chicken Game is a card that was used to fuel unfair strategies, and has been something players wanted banned. You would be in the minority to be upset about this ban.

 

What. How are the decks that ftk not the problem. How is one of the draw power cards the problem in an ftk that would be made impossible with the banning of one other card. Every deck COULD use it, but it's not a problem engine if it's not actually causing problems. Kill Equalizer/Explosion, and then what. That deck can never exist again. Kill Blaze Fenix, there you go, both non-Exodia ftks that currently exist are no longer possible.

 

Take away the ftk and it's just an engine that boosts consistency of, as I've said in every post, decks that can't inherently do it themselves, and with a field spell that you have to get off the field before your opponent gets a use of it, which itself requires a degree of investment.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

What. How are the decks that ftk not the problem. How is one of the draw power cards the problem in an ftk that would be made impossible with the banning of one other card. Every deck COULD use it, but it's not a problem engine if it's not actually causing problems. Kill Equalizer/Explosion, and then what. That deck can never exist again. Kill Blaze Fenix, there you go, both non-Exodia ftks that currently exist are no longer possible.

 

Take away the ftk and it's just an engine that boosts consistency of, as I've said in every post, decks that can't inherently do it themselves, and with a field spell that you have to get off the field before your opponent gets a use of it, which itself requires a degree of investment.

Equalizer isn't the problem.