2016 US Presidential Election

[Aerion Brightflame]

It's been political for a while Elly. Just because nothing in the realm of political action was done about it doesn't make not political

 

Trump: If elected, I'll ban immigration from areas with terrorism ties

 

I think that's a fair policy

 

Whilst I don't want to derail this thread, this is worth mentioning because I've already said it once and you seemingly ignored it:

[spoiler=Spoiler]

The Orlando shooter, even when there was potential for him to be IS operative, was an America citizen born and bred. His parents immigrated from Afghanistan but the perp himself was American with no recent history of travel to any territory associated with IS. He would not have been affected by Trump's muslim policy. 

 

Trumps policies on Islam and such would have done literally nothing to stop this tragedy. It cannot be used as a justification for the idea 'Trump will mean we never suffer something like this again' as a result. It's using fear, and a lack of information to drive a narrative that has no basis. 

 

Especially in light of the evidence that Daesh had f*** all to do with this attack. Which makes Trump's comments towards Obama, and certain parts of the US media look stupid for trying to blame IS before any real evidence came out. It's just insane fear mongering as per the norm. Gotta assign blame to someone before all of the facts come to life. 

 

 

 

 

OT: My viewpoint is pretty clear as always. In the absence of Sander's Hilary, whilst a massive representation of the issues with money in politics and an icompetant war criminal, is probably the most sane of the two options because she is at least accountable to somebody when it comes to her power. Trump is basically self funded and is the sort of person who'd own politicians, on top of being mostly bluster, which makes the idea of him terrifying. 

 

Johnson, I have no idea about. I just feel if you are introducing a third party into things it's better not to jump into getting hold of the executive branch - Build support slowly and gain congressional position, then get the executive branch so you actually have a chance of getting things done. 

 

Stein - She's green party. The best place to put your vote in terms of morals, but the policies of her party would make Trump's wall seem like a sound fiscal endeavour. Oh and a deluded view on Nuclear energy, which is bad given that's the most efficient carbon neutral source we have access to right now. Or at least the only one that could feasible meet energy demands without compromising space for agriculture. 

 

To be perfect honest I think all of the options suck. Which is a shame, but as a non American I'll take 4 more years of something reminiscent of Obama to what could amount to anarchy. 

[cr47t]

Plot twist: http://qz.com/704099/there-are-still-ways-trump-could-lose-the-republican-nomination/

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Whilst I don't want to derail this thread, this is worth mentioning because I've already said it once and you seemingly ignored it:

[spoiler=Spoiler]

The Orlando shooter, even when there was potential for him to be IS operative, was an America citizen born and bred. His parents immigrated from Afghanistan but the perp himself was American with no recent history of travel to any territory associated with IS. He would not have been affected by Trump's muslim policy. 

 

Trumps policies on Islam and such would have done literally nothing to stop this tragedy. It cannot be used as a justification for the idea 'Trump will mean we never suffer something like this again' as a result. It's using fear, and a lack of information to drive a narrative that has no basis. 

 

Especially in light of the evidence that Daesh had f*** all to do with this attack. Which makes Trump's comments towards Obama, and certain parts of the US media look stupid for trying to blame IS before any real evidence came out. It's just insane fear mongering as per the norm. Gotta assign blame to someone before all of the facts come to life. 

 

 

 

 

OT: My viewpoint is pretty clear as always. In the absence of Sander's Hilary, whilst a massive representation of the issues with money in politics and an icompetant war criminal, is probably the most sane of the two options because she is at least accountable to somebody when it comes to her power. Trump is basically self funded and is the sort of person who'd own politicians, on top of being mostly bluster, which makes the idea of him terrifying. 

 

Johnson, I have no idea about. I just feel if you are introducing a third party into things it's better not to jump into getting hold of the executive branch - Build support slowly and gain congressional position, then get the executive branch so you actually have a chance of getting things done. 

 

Stein - She's green party. The best place to put your vote in terms of morals, but the policies of her party would make Trump's wall seem like a sound fiscal endeavour. Oh and a deluded view on Nuclear energy, which is bad given that's the most efficient carbon neutral source we have access to right now. Or at least the only one that could feasible meet energy demands without compromising space for agriculture. 

 

To be perfect honest I think all of the options suck. Which is a shame, but as a non American I'll take 4 more years of something reminiscent of Obama to what could amount to anarchy. 

I've said it quite a few times too that the problem was with Islam rather than any one Muslim itself. Daesh or not, this man was a Muslim who, gay/bi/straight, still was praising his god as he massacred these people

 

If Trump's policy was in action his parents wouldn't have been able to come here and do tell how he was to be born american if his parents were not allowed in here

 

The phone call is still a thing. Tom that's the dangerous part. Islam is so impressionable that even Americans born in isolation from Daesh are easily corruptible. We saw this with the Paris Planner's cousin, and now we see it with Omar. In his last dying wishes he wanted the glory of Daesh to be watered with more blood. The fact that he was born here just validates all Trump said

 

If Islamophobia is fear of a religion that espouses death for leaving it, or death for being raped, then yes, I am an Islamophobe as any person with a hint of rational thought should be

 

4 more years of a PC president is exactly what this country DOESN'T need. If we wanted to end up like Europe, it would have happened already

[Aerion Brightflame]

Show me proof he was praising God as he killed these people? Show me proof he was doing the cliche thing and going 'Allahu Akbar' as he gunned these people down? Because otherwise that's conjecture to try and make a statement to drive a specific narrative of this being terrorism due to Islamic extremism. 

 

Because as far as the facts indicate this wasn't a madman gunning others down in the name of god - This was a mentally ill individual having a breakdown and commuting a violent hate crime. 

 

This man had no links to IS (Beyond a still alleged phone call he made most of the way through the act), it was not part of a larger IS plot as far as our intelligence knows. Hell the guy was even a sinner by IS's standards because he was gay. So pushing the whole 'Islamic Extremism is a cancer' is illogical in this case. That's not to say it's illogical in general, because they commit awful acts. But in this case, it wasn't Islamic Extremism. It's the case of a mentally ill homophobe being given legal access to firearms and snapping. 

 

And even if we ignore this stuff - It doesn't change that what Trump said was wrong. He was absolutely wrong to call Obama out for not blaming Islamic Extremism - Because as the evidence has shown, it wasn't. Trump used this instance to push a very specific narrative to apeal to the fear of his supporters. 

 

I know this is a little off tangent and more personal than I normally like to go - But look at yourself Winter. Two days ago you were lambasting Trump because of his idiotic actions. And now you are suddenly back behind him with full force because of incorrect comments and assumptions people made about this case. You've seemingly let this instance of violence, and the fear resulting from that to drive back behind Trump because of Trump's grand instances of Bravado about the subject. When all he has done is insult the President for no reason, and push an irrelevant narrative. All because you rushed to assign blame before all the evidence was in.  

 

It's fear politics. It's stupid, you should be better than that. ISIS might be evil, but that doesn't mean they are the root cause of every horrible thing every Muslim is going to do. And the evidence really does suggest they had nothing to do with this one. 

 

Seriously, that's a large portion of what Trump is doing - He's using fear politics and misinformation to drive a narrative that implies he can make America great against. It's why he's usually very weak on the actual issues, because issues require logic and facts most of the time. Neither of which are things he plays with his fanbase much

 

EDIT: Anyway this is the last I'll talk about this on here, since we are derailing it.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

I live not in the US so it doesn't really affect me, but I hope the better candidate wins, in the end :)

 

Personally I kinda want Trump to win because I think it'll be pretty funny, but at the same time pretty tragic.

 

Actually, it does affect you. Since the US is the only Superpower in the world, what the US does affects everyone. Which is why Trump is the worst option out of the bunch as he has been shown to be unpredictable, and that is not a quality that is needed in a president.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I still stand by that. Trump eroded his hard earned 15 point advantage with Independents in a matter of days. And took a sheet over all the unity effort with his god awful method of going after the Judge

 

You can argue if going after the Judge was racist or needed. But it's hard to defend the method he did it in.

 

I'm trying to be objective about Trump, which means I highlight his faults, and his merits. Just because I'm saying he's right here does not mean I've forgotten the Judge or that the rest of the US has either

 

At the very least, there are some greatly disturbing teachings in Islam, that can be seen beyond this shooting. And the fact that an American man felt sanctuary with Daesh before committing this crime likewise sickens me.

 

We're clearly susceptible, and that's a danger we cannot ignore.

 

I don't remember which thread I said it in, but in response to one of Dad's posts. Yes, Trump cannot stop this 100% but a ban would have stopped the parents atleast, and thus the son.

 

Let Islam as a whole change and become more modernized as other religions have. 

I want to wait till this gets verified, but apparently the wife of the shooter knew her husband wanted to employ some manner of Jhihadist agenda before hand, and "tried" to stop him

[Aerion Brightflame]

Actually, it does affect you. Since the US is the only Superpower in the world, what the US does affects everyone. Which is why Trump is the worst option out of the bunch as he has been shown to be unpredictable, and that is not a quality that is needed in a president.

 

The US is not the only Superpower in the world. It's arguably the most powerful, but it's wrong to call it the only one. China, Russia and the EU are also super powers. The EU less so than the other two, due to it's nature. 

 

The real reason that the actions of the US affects everyone is because it is a Superpower, and because the actions of every nation have huge potential to impact every other nation given how interlinked the world is now. Especially economics. 

[Nathanael D. Striker]

The US is not the only Superpower in the world. It's arguably the most powerful, but it's wrong to call it the only one. China, Russia and the EU are also super powers. The EU less so than the other two, due to it's nature. 

 

The real reason that the actions of the US affects everyone is because it is a Superpower, and because the actions of every nation have huge potential to impact every other nation given how interlinked the world is now. Especially economics. 

 

Some would argue that China, Russia, and the EU are all regional powers tbh. Powerful regional powers that tend to border on Superpowers, but regional powers nonetheless.

[~~~~]

Some would argue that China, Russia, and the EU are all regional powers tbh. Powerful regional powers that tend to border on Superpowers, but regional powers nonetheless.

Well they'd definitely be wrong with China. You see "Made in China" on everything and when China's economy started slowing earlier this year, people were saying it would have massive worldwide ramifications.

 

IDK about Russia. The main things it's been getting up to recently afaik was that thing in Ukraine a few years back and backing Assad. (And almost going to war with Turkey?) There will be more things I'm sure but I can't recall them.

 

 

OT: Winter, as a (I think?) Trump supporter, what do you have to say about him implying that he would default on USA's debts?

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Well they'd definitely be wrong with China. You see "Made in China" on everything and when China's economy started slowing earlier this year, people were saying it would have massive worldwide ramifications.

 

IDK about Russia. The main things it's been getting up to recently afaik was that thing in Ukraine a few years back and backing Assad. (And almost going to war with Turkey?) There will be more things I'm sure but I can't recall them.

 

OT: Winter, as a (I think?) Trump supporter, what do you have to say about him implying that he would default on USA's debts?

 

China would be more of an Economic Power than a Superpower. A Superpower has both the Economic Power and Military Power. The US has that, though the others really don't. And that stuff with Russia shows regional power tbh.

 

On the other note, I'm not a fan of that proposal. The US credit rating dropped before because the US was extremely close to default. We'd turn into a larger Argentina or something if we did that.

[Brinolovania]

#FreeMarket

 

Vote Gary Johnson because you like /some/ of his policies.

I don't think I agree with Johnson enough to actually vote for him, but I really hope the Libertarians do get the 15% in the polls ot be able to participate in debates. They're the party closest to doing it as far as I know, and I think it would be a good thing for a 3rd part to get into the election, especially given how much of a shitshow it's been so far.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Defaulting? Stupid. Refinancing? Might have to happen at the rate our last two presidents have worked and based on how Trump wants to run the US

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This is actually very interesting. So Trump's national number have had a bad month. He's dropped a fair bit. But his state by state numbers keep going up relative to their past values.