Vanity's Emptiness

[Abdelrahman]

Vanity's Emptiness

Continuous Trap Card

Neither player can Special Summon monsters. If a card is sent from the Deck or the field to your Graveyard: Destroy this card.

 

Do you think this card will be banned? I mean, Kaiser Colosseum just got banned in the new TCG banlist, so I don't see why this really annoying card wouldn't.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Health card that curbs non-inherent SS.

 

It should move up since we're giving Monster Reborns and Lonefires to everyone

[~~~~]

Health card that curbs non-inherent SS.

 

It should move up since we're giving Monster Reborns and Lonefires to everyone

It's not healthy with Stardust Spark Dragon. I've had that happen to me y'know, and guess what, I lost that duel.

[Neochu-H]

I have two words for this card

 

 

ban it

[Βyakuya]

It's up to Konami to decide if floodgates in general really are too impactful and might thing to get this card off the game. But for now like what Winter said, it's a necessary card needed to keep away non-inherent summons in this SS-happy format.

 

What matters is the capability of a first turn board you can play and then getting this. Locking out S/Ts and monster effects with floodgate monsters are becoming more common making this seem a little more stupid and annoying if you slap this on Turn 2. But it's usually a dead card if you open it first and can shift the momentum to your favor if you use it at the right time. So it shouldn't really move anywhere up, but going down is a tad questionable.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's not healthy with Stardust Spark Dragon. I've had that happen to me y'know, and guess what, I lost that duel.

Run cosmic cyclone then

Vanity is balanced, since it stop you from advancing your gamestate 95% of the time

 

Yosenju are the only exception I can think of

[VCR_CAT]

I strongly disagree that this is a "health card", and if we're focusing on reeling back Special Summon spamming, this is by and far not the solution.

 

Because that's not how it's used. This card isn't used to force a player to compromise a larger combo for a smaller one and slow the game down; it's used to lock down an advantageous field, or force a player to pass. In fact, being able to turn this card off by itself doesn't balance it; it means the user has a means to turn it off themselves without using a S/T removal to do so; meaning you force the pass, then you unload your own combo to take the win. This card doesn't promote a healthier game state; it further pushes the mindset of setting up insurmountable fields and locking the game state; creating situations where a player can't do anything unless they get lucky with a specific card. That's not health; that hurts the game more than anything. Honestly, this promotes decks that are able to Special Summon like crazy to set up large combo fields simply because this is just another card to lock down the game state.

 

At 1, this card isn't going to show up nearly enough to justify a healthier game state by fear of its possible presence; by that argument one could say that Raigeki stops players from doing big fields (it doesn't). Not because it doesn't do well against those fields, but because the chances of it showing up are VERY slim. But, placing this at 2 or 3 just creates a card that can be relied on more than others, and all this does is further promote how this card was used when it began to show up more prominently: A means to force the opponent to pass, lock down the field, and overall steal an easy win that maybe not have been acquired otherwise. The fact that this card alone can decide a game is, frankly, really stupid.

 

Because of how this card is used, as well as the likelihood of it showing up, this card does nothing to curb Special Summon-focused decks besides ending games early and stopping players from being able to play at all.  Stopping players from playing isn't healthy game design; the ideal is for both players to have a good chance to take care of fields using more generic combos; not rely on opening a specific card in order to just not lose.

 

Now, if you want something that ACTUALLY curbs Special Summoning and slows the game down; something like Maxx "C" does a much better job. By no means does it stop a player from doing their combos or playing, but it discourages mass Special Summoning by forcing them to ask themselves if they're confident that their play is strong enough to win despite whatever advantage the opponent gains. It doesn't stop anyone from playing, but it has a different effect that makes players consider smaller commitments to the board instead of dumping their Extra Deck. Of course, there are other reasons for why that card isn't necessarily good for the game, but it does a hell of a lot better at curbing Special Summoning than this cancer.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Yeh, you try maxx c vs DDD

 

You can draw your 20 cards, they'll still win

[BlackBeartic]

If konami really wanted to make floods that weren't stupid af, take a good look at L1T.

 

It slows down your opponent, but notice how it doesn't completely shut them out from playing the "game". It's probably the fairest flood in the game for that reason alone. And yet it does its job of hindering the opponent enough to where they won't be able to explode and do all this crazy stuff.

I might even call Dimension Barrier a more fair flood than this card, simply because it only lasts for a turn.

This card here? Flip it when you have a board with negation and you auto win. Unless your opponent has some busted god tier hand that can break your board AND this then forget it.

It's obvious konami KNOWS how to make fair floods that actually slow down the opponent but still allow them to play the game, but for some reason made stuff like vanity (all vanities, not just the trap).

That being said konami hasn't really made a continuous flood in awhile and i believe L1T might be the newest? (If so it makes dimension barrier a step in the right direction because they know how to make balanced floods).

Then you got stuff like skill drain... idk about that.

Yeah Twi Twi exists, but is it really necessary for a card to be able to pretty much tell the opponent to scoop? People say it's for "health" but then go and make a board of ABC Buster, Infinity and then flip Vanity. Outside of Kaiju what are you doing to those 2 alongside getting rid of Vanity. (Yeah Raigeki exists, but you gotta bait anyways. And it's not guaranteed you will always have the card when this or any other similar field happens) To think people want this at 3 too. This card at 3 is literally "Make broken board, then flip and win".


TL:DR Konami needs to make more balanced floods like L1T (And Dimension Barrier if it counts as a flood). This card here can go to 0 for all i care, 1 is fine though.

[VCR_CAT]

Yeh, you try maxx c vs DDD

 

You can draw your 20 cards, they'll still win

 

This does nothing to either answer or discuss the points I've made. If all you're doing is going into a thread to shitpost a statement and then shut your ears to anyone who naysays your opinion, then I'd be willing to bet you have better things to do that you should be doing than this.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This does nothing to either answer or discuss the points I've made. If all you're doing is going into a thread to shitpost a statement and then shut your ears to anyone who naysays your opinion, then I'd be willing to bet you have better things to do that you should be doing than this.

I mean your argument shoots itself in the foot for a couple reasons. Raigeki is powercreeped since everything floats, but back when Norden was legal, people worked to play around super poly plays (as in not putting multiple sycn/xyz) up.

 

 

Look at this card and look at it's last sentence. The card destroys itself whenever something on the field gets sent to the graveyard. You all act like mst is the only out for emptiness. A lot of cards can destroy a poorly times emptiness (Not that I'm saying nobody runs it but you get the point, emptiness is too easy to dispose). Vanity's Emptiness is actually too lenient of a card. Like everyone forgot about cards like Kaiser Colosseum, Majesty's Fiend, Skill Drain, etc. can similarly lock down decks and don't have an anti-progress clause on it. Now you mentioned that Vanity is easy to turn off. Not really. There are some cards like searcher spells you can play, but a good portion of your aggressive plays involve non-inherent ss card like say the darklord spell.

 

You're suggesting that locks exist

 

True, now has it ever crossed your mind that decks that sheet out 2 s/t negators and a eff negator might be the problem. Hint, if a kaiju can't break a board that a deck can make with ease, you should really reflect on that deck

 

I didn't feel the need to say much more because I thought you'd understand about where to put the blame, but clearly I was mistaken

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

emptiness is too easy to dispose

Now you mentioned that Vanity is easy to turn off. Not really.

WHICH ONE IS IT

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

WHICH ONE IS IT

Both kinda, it's hard for the person who activated it to turn it off and progress, since a lot of card that involve something going from the field to the grave in the current day and age ARE cards like Gospel or such

 

It's easy for the opponent to turn off since you can kill a monster or spell

 

The obv argument to make against vanity would be pendulums since they won't hit the grave, kinda disappointing none of y'all made it

[VCR_CAT]

 

I mean your argument shoots itself in the foot for a couple reasons. Raigeki is powercreeped since everything floats, but back when Norden was legal, people worked to play around super poly plays (as in not putting multiple sycn/xyz) up.

 

There are decks that float, but you're wrong when you say "everything floats". Not every deck is Yang Zing. In fact, you've got Yang Zing that floats to that degree, and Shaddolls are hardly relevant anymore. Your argument shoots itself in the foot because of a blanket statement on the game's state when really it only addresses a couple relevant decks among many. Not to mention that Raigeki is still one of the most commonly used cards in TCG tournaments, so y'know, if it was sheet and powercreeped to uselessness then I doubt it'd be seen as practically a staple. The floats and such warrant it to not be banned, sure; but that argument doesn't work in implying it's not used or not a threat. It still removes fields and leaves an opening for players to take an upper hand.

 

 

Look at this card and look at it's last sentence. The card destroys itself whenever something on the field gets sent to the graveyard. You all act like mst is the only out for emptiness. A lot of cards can destroy a poorly times emptiness (Not that I'm saying nobody runs it but you get the point, emptiness is too easy to dispose). Vanity's Emptiness is actually too lenient of a card. Like everyone forgot about cards like Kaiser Colosseum, Majesty's Fiend, Skill Drain, etc. can similarly lock down decks and don't have an anti-progress clause on it. Now you mentioned that Vanity is easy to turn off. Not really. There are some cards like searcher spells you can play, but a good portion of your aggressive plays involve non-inherent ss card like say the darklord spell.

 

If you've never seen a player, or yourself, turn a Vanity's off by itself easily when you needed to, then I'm beginning to question the level of skill that you or your opponents are using it. The self-destruct doesn't make the card healthier, it makes it worse. Yeah sure, it means an opponent can destroy a card to shut it off. Good luck doing that when the opponent's field is big monsters and you didn't open any spells to remove anything. Sure it means it's shut off when a card is sent; but unless you already have something strong enough to kill something or force the use of a Spell or Trap, that effect isn't coming into favor for the player facing against it and they'll more likely than not need to have an MST-esque card to deal with it. The vast majority of time, that last sentence is going in favor of the user because it grants them an easy avenue to turn it off; it lets the player use it to force the opponent to pass, turn it off by playing any spell or trap that can be activated generically (wow guess what, a lot of players run a lot of those), then unload their combos and take the win. I've said it so many times: There's no room for missed turns in this game right now. You either open the cards needed to at least keep up with the opponent, or hope they're bad.

 

Frick, cards like Foolish, Allure, Seachers, anything that discards for a cost, Metalfoes, etc. etc. etc. There's SO MANY AVENUES to turn this crap off yourself, and if you're placing it on the field where you would need to turn it off without a means to turn it off, then you either bricked or you're bad.

 

 

A lot of cards can destroy a poorly times emptiness.

 

This isn't even an argument. I've said it before: Any card is bad if it's used poorly. Yeah, of course a poorly timed emptiness is probably not going to work out well; but now the fault is on the user, not the card. Nice try, but assuming bad players an argument does not make.

 

 

 

True, now has it ever crossed your mind that decks that s*** out 2 s/t negators and a eff negator might be the problem. Hint, if a kaiju can't break a board that a deck can make with ease, you should really reflect on that deck

 

I didn't feel the need to say much more because I thought you'd understand about where to put the blame, but clearly I was mistaken

 

Did it ever cross your mind that just because X is bad, that must mean that Y must be good despite also being bad? I didn't think I'd feel the need to point this out, considering I'd expect you to be able to deduce something like that on your own; but clearly I was mistaken.

 

 

And yeah, I did suggest locks exist because there are two ways this card is used: Force a pass before you get your combo out, or make a large field and prevent the opponent from taking care of it unless they're lucky enough to open the removal. You argue that this card would make the game healthier, but when you yourself say that the decks you claim this card is working to balance against are actually just using it to make themselves even more oppressive; then there's a connection you're clearly not making. This card isn't healthy, it's not doing the things you claim it does (all you need to do is pay attention to duels it's used it realize "Wow hey, this is actually just by the strong decks to reinforce their decks even more, who woulda thunk") If this card is supposed to curb non-inherent SS, it's doing a sheet job by actually making a lot of those decks even better. When this card first really started being used at 3, a lot of people argued "Wow hey, this could mean that the rogue decks get a tool to use against the meta decks that Special Summon a lot!" But wow, you know what happened? Those meta decks just used that card to make their fields even harder to surpass, and having a situation where a given player loses just because they didn't draw a specific card is utterly stupid.

[~~~~]

Run cosmic cyclone then

Nice, run a quick play spell in Paleozoics. It's also a secret rare and funk that.

 

I'll have Dinomischus soon, but I'm still relying on topdecks to out it.

 

 

Vanity is balanced, since it stop you from advancing your gamestate 95% of the time

Like I said, use it when your gamestate is already very advanced.

[vla1ne]

is it healthy? not really, but it's still a necessary evil. it breaks big summon chains, and straight up stops advances. the card isn't completely healthy, but the things it's used to stop are just as, if not far more unhealthy for the game. maxxC can give you all the cards in the world, but it won't mean jack if they still complete their combo and murder you that turn, L1T is a legit argument to an extent, but it still also stops your own plays just as hard, and can be a nightmare to get over for you as well as your opponent once played. vanity is easy to turn off, but that adds an extra dimension to it, if your opponent makes even one mistake, vanity becomes easy as cake to break, or they might break it themselves at the wrong time. it's not perfectly fine at 1, but it's not banworthy either. it's close, but it's not there yet, and until we get at least one other decent generic floodgate like dimension barrier, it shouldn't be hit by the hammer.

 

imo though, it's going to get banned eventually, it's a really good card against practically every deck, and the design is the type that will only get better with time. but it's not that time just yet, so it'l be at one for a while to come. three or four more formats at least.

[Kaiji]

Not a fan when this gets flipped on me (though very infrequently), tho outing ignoring Kaiju is pretty appealing

 

From an objective standpoint re:floodgates I think there should be an acknowledgement with oneself that either one should feel that all are ok or none of them.

 

How people tend to define "floodgate" is pretty nebulous since it obviously doesnt mean "pink card with infinity symbol under the name" (Vanity's Fiend)but theres at least some consensus that they are commonly played pink cards that imprison some aspect of the game (to what degree and as to how this is achieved is prob where the dispute lies).

 

Anyways, ideally I'd want them all gone so I can nut on my opponent full power not gg, 0 exceptions as long as they fall under a consistent definiton of floodgates.

 

So no "balanced"/"health" memes as theres prob gonna be a floodgate you'll turn around and complain about, meaning the aforementioned acknowledgement doesnt exist.

[Toffee.]

Card that will never honestly be printed

Trap

Activate if you control no monsters that were Special Summoned from the Extra Deck. Your opponent cannot Special Summon monsters this turn, and they take no damage until the End Phase of your turn. Your opponent can negate this effect if they Banish face-down 1 card from there hand. You can only activate 1 "Card that will never honestly be printed" per turn.

 

???????????????

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

 

???????????????

that would honestly suck so bad

[Kaiji]

Yeah thats kinda like a less functional dimensional barrier