Political Ideology

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

So there's been a lot of talk about this group recently 

 

Some say it's Nazis emboldened by PEOTUS Trump

 

Others like me, say something akin to this

 

I honestly see the second group as right-wing SJWs

 

[Forest Fire]

I do not like one group (left vs right) over the other. I would vote for whoever I believe holds the most values in common as possible (and isn't a lier) no matter which side they are on.

Obviously there are crazy people on both sides. If you stray to far right, you get Nazis and all that, to far left is the SJW crowd and what not. Both the far left and far right are groups comprised of complete f***wits.

[epicmemesbro]

Defining what it is can be tricky. I guess in a way, the alt-right is similar to Black Lives Matter. Both lack a "cohesive hive-mind" and have groups tied in together via a general concept. Apart from there they are fair game to a vast type of groups, with varying, sometimes conflicting, demands. Some say the alt-right is a pressure group, others say that that it is a networking hub, or an umbrella-term for many sub-movements previously identifying as something else before the precedent of people identifying as such became mainstream. Many identifying as alt-right consider greed as a natural instinct that must inevitably make its way into modern society. Others identifying as alt-right believe that we have evolved from our natural instincts and our rational mindset has set the tone for altruistic endeavors. Many are atheist, many are Christians, some view homosexuality as degeneracy, some go as far to say that it has been an integral part of white cultures for centuries ect. I suppose its more of a collective in similar vein to the Occupy movement, in which anyone can pretty much identify as long as they are anti-leftist. 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

not to say all right wing is bad, because that's just funking stupid to say, but a ton of the memes came from /pol/ and they are actually funking terrible.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I honestly see the alt-right that I'm part of as "moderate" republicans

 

A GOP that wants minorities to join, aiming at economic prosperity for the middle class over the upper-class, anti-globalist, socially moderate (accepting of LGBT, and moderate on abortion)

 

Like we're ok with liberal economic policies like Keynesian spending, but also ok with SSE economics if we can prove it will help the worker class, etc.

 

We hate the Kasich type republicans as well as the Bernie type democrats

 

Maybe we need a new name for us like the Neo-Right or something

[Sunshine Jesse]

I honestly see the alt-right that I'm part of as "moderate" republicans

 

A GOP that wants minorities to join, aiming at economic prosperity for the middle class over the upper-class, anti-globalist, socially moderate (accepting of LGBT, and moderate on abortion)

 

Like we're ok with liberal economic policies like Keynesian spending, but also ok with SSE economics if we can prove it will help the worker class, etc.

 

We hate the Kasich type republicans as well as the Bernie type democrats

 

Maybe we need a new name for us like the Neo-Right or something

Being okay with liberal economic policies means you're not right-wing by definition. The GOP stands for none of those things and never has, nor are any of those things right-wing in any way.

 

The alt-right are nothing but neo-nazis and fascists, and to call yourself one signifies either willfully accepting yourself under that umbrella, ignorance over what the movement actually stands for, or refusal to accept it.

[~~~~]

I think it would be great if we called certain people members of the neo-right as Winter suggests. It has a neo-nazi ring to it. :>

[Aerion Brightflame]

You can't disavow people from the 'alt-right' because the alt-right has no formal ideology to disavow people from. It's something that came into existence through f***ing 4chan for goodness sake. The only consensus around what the alt-right stands for comes from actually making a vague guess at the sort of things the 'members' claim to stand for the most. 

 

Usually that means white nationalism, anti PC behavoir, and expressing what would be classed as racist and sexist viewpoints (And I don't mean 'Oh Muslim's are terrorists' style comments, I mean saying Jew's should be slaughtered and women belong in the kitchen style comments). As you would expect from something the product of 4chan to be. That's like the so defined 'heart' of the movement, it then gets associated with people rejecting traditional conservatism, and say neo-nazi groups and such. 

 

It's not an easy group to define because no one has any f***ing clue who seriously backs it and who is doing it for the satire. Because again, it's the product of 4chan. Some contemporary analysis has said has said it is as Jessie said it's the home for neo-Nazi's and such, but others like Milo Yianoppoulos  call it just a rejection of modern political values. However, this is contended by prominant Alt-Right members like Andrew Anglin and Jazzhands McFeels who have embraced white nationalism as being a core tennat of the movement. 

 

Either way, it's hard to paint a specific face on it because it's new, and without any form of formal 'leader' behind it. There's no single consensus about what it means. Simply that it generally cares more about the social policies than the economic ones, and it tends to be to the right of traditional conservatism (I.E. non Tea-Party). 

 

If a new moderate conservative group emerges, it won't be the alt-right. It will be an entirely different movement. The alt-right is essentially just the 'liberal' equivalent for the right. In part because it directly opposes liberals. 

 

EDIT: Also for the love of god don't call the new movement 'Neo-Right'. The prefix 'Neo' should be all but dead in politics nowadays given it has connections to both Neo-Nazism and Neoliberalism. One of which is obviously bad, and one of which is becoming rapidly rejected in modern politics after it's rise in the 90's and 00's. 

 

EDIT 2: I don't think I was clear - I do disagree with Jessie's labelling of the alt-right as just being racists and Nazi's, because short of actual Nazi's that's always disingenuous. There are, as usual, valid reasons to support this group because the issue of 'PC being oppressive' is an issue to some.

 

It's just it's not a movement we can define easily because it's a weird ass movement spawned from 4chan, with a bunch of heavily contrasting viewpoints and figures backing it. You can't disavow people from it as a result because you can't go 'these people don't stand for what I stand for' on something where the actual standpoint is undefined.  

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Being okay with liberal economic policies means you're not right-wing by definition. The GOP stands for none of those things and never has, nor are any of those things right-wing in any way.

 

The alt-right are nothing but neo-nazis and fascists, and to call yourself one signifies either willfully accepting yourself under that umbrella, ignorance over what the movement actually stands for, or refusal to accept it.

If Liberal economic policies makes you not GOP...then PEOTUS trump isn't republican?

[vla1ne]

i'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter whether you are or are not a white nationalist. you can be alt-right and be/ not be a white nationalist, placing a specific race on a political party is identity politics, and unless i'm horribly mistaken, alt-right (some facets) are completely against identity politics. but it's all subjective here. there's no one clear definition, so anybody can pick up the label, and similar to atheism, skeptic, and many other brands of label people from all  walks of life can pick up the label and run with it. so why not be a white nationalist, or a black nationalist, or just a nationalist, and still be an alt-right member? 

 

but that was just rambling on my part, the point i'm trying to get across, is that there is no clear list of things that will define you as alt-right, because nobody can even agree on what alt-right is at the core. there's various party members, prominent in multiple areas who old different views on the subject, as far as i care, you are alt-right so long as you wish to be called alt-right, no matter your background. the only thing that i believe alt-right people have in common, is the rejection of  SJW mindset, and rejection of identity politics.

[epicmemesbro]

You can't disavow people from the 'alt-right' because the alt-right has no formal ideology to disavow people from. It's something that came into existence through f***ing 4chan for goodness sake. The only consensus around what the alt-right stands for comes from actually making a vague guess at the sort of things the 'members' claim to stand for the most.

Actually the alt-right is said to have originated around Obama's election during his first term. It is argued that either Jared Taylor or Richard Spencer layed the paving grounds for the movement. Spencer was already coining the term if I recall correctly, but both men were already unsatisfied with political correctness and did not approve of the direction the Republican party was going. I think 4chan made the movement mainstream rather than create it. Milo also popularized it via the non-mainstream media, and via Youtube. Many people claim to be the spokespeople or the head of the alt right, Such has Milo, Taylor, Andrew Anglin, and Spencer, Pat Buchanan, the list goes on.

 

Some also say that the alt-right was a natural response to the "regressive left". It should be noted that not even the first folks to use the term didn't really know what it was, it was just a general response to what they were unsatisfied with. Parallels can be drawn between the identitarian movement in Europe and the alt-right, and the identitarian movement did predate it.

 

For those that don't know, Paul Joseph Watson is an editor for PrisonPlanet and InfoWars.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

So what are y'all calling Nixonian-Rockafeller Republicanism then? Cause it's clearly an alternate right that can win

 

Trumpism needs a name

[Aerion Brightflame]

Given that Rockafeller Republicans haven't been that relevant in major US politics for nearly 50 years before this year (And that's still something...well flimsy), I would simply call it Liberal Conservatism. Or moderate Republicans as they are more commonly known now. Rather than alt-right, because alt-right whilst meaning the words alternative right is already a movement. A very different movement. 

 

Technically 'Trumpism' would not be a form of Rockafeller Republicans, because you know they did stuff like support business regulations, labour unions, the environment (Nixon founded the EPA for instance), government investment in healthcare, schooling and infrastructure and actually pushed towards globalism and the expansion of US buisness interests overseas. 

 

It's quite contrasting to my understanding of what Trump ran for, and is actually closer to democratic policies. But it is the type of conservatism I could in theory get behind. Shame really. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Given that Rockafeller Republicans haven't been that relevant in major US politics for nearly 50 years before this year (And that's still something...well flimsy), I would simply call it Liberal Conservatism. Or moderate Republicans as they are more commonly known now. Rather than alt-right, because alt-right whilst meaning the words alternative right is already a movement. A very different movement. 

 

Technically 'Trumpism' would not be a form of Rockafeller Republicans, because you know they did stuff like support business regulations, labour unions, the environment (Nixon founded the EPA for instance), government investment in healthcare, schooling and infrastructure and actually pushed towards globalism and the expansion of US buisness interests overseas. 

 

It's quite contrasting to my understanding of what Trump ran for, and is actually closer to democratic policies. But it is the type of conservatism I could in theory get behind. Shame really. 

Trumpism is an america first version of Rickafeller Republicanism, being against globalization and lowering regulations would boost the US's capabilities, he's for the rest of them.

 

While he may not be a staunch climate change believer, he did affirm the important need for clean air and water in America

 

He;s doing the rest of the things you described though

 

It's the evolution we've needed for some time

 

Union voters voted for him in record numbers, matching Reagan

 

He's fighting the GOP to get a infrastructure project double what HRC and Obama wanted, and quadruple what Bernie wanted 

 

Trump Democrats is a real thing in the Midwest, y'all laughed at me when I said I wasn't alone, and now we delivered the WH to him.

[Dad]

Trumpism is an america first version of Rickafeller Republicanism, being against globalization and lowering regulations would boost the US's capabilities, he's for the rest of them.

 

While he may not be a staunch climate change believer, he did affirm the important need for clean air and water in America

 

He;s doing the rest of the things you described though

 

It's the evolution we've needed for some time

 

Union voters voted for him in record numbers, matching Reagan

 

He's fighting the GOP to get a infrastructure project double what HRC and Obama wanted, and quadruple what Bernie wanted 

 

Trump Democrats is a real thing in the Midwest, y'all laughed at me when I said I wasn't alone, and now we delivered the WH to him.

 

No one laughed at you.  You just became obsessively obnoxious and belligerent while crying "woe is me".  Which you're still doing.

 

And the need for clean water and air in America is a standard.  It's still a piss poor stance on climate change when you're talking about shoving another pipeline down the US when we have spills still not taken care of.  And speaking of, why the funk doesn't Detroit have clean water yet?

 

But maybe PE can deliver.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

No one laughed at you.  You just became obsessively obnoxious and belligerent while crying "woe is me".  Which you're still doing.

The point is there are a lot of disaffected democrats who voted Trump

 

Rustbelt/Midwest is groundzero for Trump Democrats like me, the Democratic Party isn't speaking to to us when they tell us that bathrooms are more important than Jobs, and that we need to embrace Islam. Time will tell if they learned their lesson, but if they're really making Ellison DNC chair, and Bernie the new face ...it seems not

 

But I guess I got a bit unhinged towards the end

[Sunshine Jesse]

EDIT 2: I don't think I was clear - I do disagree with Jessie's labelling of the alt-right as just being racists and Nazi's, because short of actual Nazi's that's always disingenuous. There are, as usual, valid reasons to support this group because the issue of 'PC being oppressive' is an issue to some.

 

It's just it's not a movement we can define easily because it's a weird ass movement spawned from 4chan, with a bunch of heavily contrasting viewpoints and figures backing it. You can't disavow people from it as a result because you can't go 'these people don't stand for what I stand for' on something where the actual standpoint is undefined.  

No, that's literally exactly what they are. It's a label they use and are funking proud of because it hides what they actually are.

 

Those who aren't actual literal neo-nazis need to dissociate from the term. The alt-right must not be accepted in any way. This is not up for debate. This is not about political parties or identity politics- this is giving a deplorable and sickening group far more power than people actually realize.

 

 

If Liberal economic policies makes you not GOP...then PEOTUS trump isn't republican?

lmao no he's not

 

he's closer to a classical racist southern white democrat like FDR was

 

Except I don't think he'll be half the president FDR was. If I'm to be blindly optimistic, he might come within 50%, which would still put him in the top 15.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

lmao no he's not

 

he's closer to a classical racist southern white democrat like FDR was

Well we agree on something atleast

 

 

No, that's literally exactly what they are. It's a label they use and are funking proud of because it hides what they actually are.

 

Those who aren't actual literal neo-nazis need to dissociate from the term. The alt-right must not be accepted in any way. This is not up for debate. This is not about political parties or identity politics- this is giving a deplorable and sickening group far more power than people actually realize.

A lot of Trump supporters consider themselves alt-right, because we abhor both the Kasich/Romney types as well as the SJW/Sanders/Warren types

 

The Neo-Nazi guy got 30 people to his convtion over the weekend, Trump turned counties that have voted Dem for 50 years Red...I think who the dominant force in the "alt-right" is pretty clear

 

We are "right" but an alternative version that doesn't sell it's people out to globalists or SJW's

[vla1ne]

No, that's literally exactly what they are. It's a label they use and are f***ing proud of because it hides what they actually are.

 

Those who aren't actual literal neo-nazis need to dissociate from the term. The alt-right must not be accepted in any way. This is not up for debate. This is not about political parties or identity politics- this is giving a deplorable and sickening group far more power than people actually realize.

 

 

lmao no he's not

 

he's closer to a classical racist southern white democrat like FDR was

 

Except I don't think he'll be half the president FDR was. If I'm to be blindly optimistic, he might come within 50%, which would still put him in the top 15.

dude, you are taking an entire group of people, and telling them what they are or are not. tell me exactly why somebody who labels themselves alt-right has to be racist, or why they need to leave the label if they are not racist? as for the nazi thing, that's just a no. i shouldn't even have to explain why those people (even many of the actual racists) are not Nazis.

 

the reason racism is not a good argument to use against the alt -right is because you can throw it at every crowd. racism is not a trait exclusive to alt-right, and many people who are alt right do not endorse, any form of racism at all. are there racists in the alt-right? damn sure there are, but they are irrelevant, because they are neither the majority, nor are they the loudest voice. in fact, many of the people on the alt-right who have been called racists are clearly not racists. people have simply taken their actions or words out of context, placed them in a vacuum, and declared them racist under such warped conditions.

 

using the term racist to throw people out of a group, or into a group, is mostly identity politics at this point, many of the people on the alt-right who are called racists are nothing of the sort, they are against such identity politics, and as such, have simply stopped caring whether or not they were called racists, as well they should.

[Aerion Brightflame]

No, that's literally exactly what they are. It's a label they use and are f***ing proud of because it hides what they actually are.

 

Those who aren't actual literal neo-nazis need to dissociate from the term. The alt-right must not be accepted in any way. This is not up for debate. This is not about political parties or identity politics- this is giving a deplorable and sickening group far more power than people actually realize.

 

But you also give them power by labelling them Nazi's. 

 

If they are truly deplorable, and without merit, one shouldn't need a term like Nazi to dismiss them. One should be able to do that just on the strengths of an objective argument. Using a term like 'racist' to sum up the entire movement both cheapens the validity of the term and just serves to try and make an argument immediately personal because you attacked the person, not the argument or the policy. 

 

If the last few months have proven anything, it's that simply labelling something 'racist' even if it arguably is doesn't actually serve as a valid argument. Because it isn't one, you just piss people off and only entrench there views. 

[Sunshine Jesse]

But you also give them power by labelling them Nazi's. 

 

If they are truly deplorable, and without merit, one shouldn't need a term like Nazi to dismiss them. One should be able to do that just on the strengths of an objective argument. Using a term like 'racist' to sum up the entire movement both cheapens the validity of the term and just serves to try and make an argument immediately personal because you attacked the person, not the argument or the policy. 

 

If the last few months have proven anything, it's that simply labelling something 'racist' even if it arguably is doesn't actually serve as a valid argument. Because it isn't one, you just piss people off and only entrench there views. 

But that's actually literally what they are.

It's what the entire movement was founded on.

 

It wasn't a group of "lel memes xD" people who were hijacked by racists and white nationalists. It was the other way around. The term alt-right literally originally meant people like the KKK and neo-nazis.

 

To call them anything OTHER than nazis is to give them undue power because it causes uninformed ("I support white nationalism because they are white and they are nationalists") people to think they're something they're not.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/?utm_source=atlfbcomment

 

This is not the fringe of the movement.

 

This is the funking foundation.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

 

Spencer has popularized the term "alt-right" to describe the movement he leads.

 

To popularize a phrase (purportedly) and to coin it are two entirely different things. The "alt" in "alt-right" means "alternative". Alternative to what? Mainstream conservatism in the United States.

 

People who call themselves "alt-right" are *not* necessarily Neo-Nazis.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

>Trump gets tens of thousands of people at every rally

>Trump not a democrat

>Nazis get 30 peopl

 

But Nazis represent the alt right better?

[Tentacruel]

So right wing SJW's? 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

So right wing SJW's? 

Some of them yes