Invigorating Forest [written]

[Sleepy]

Invigorating Forest
[Continuous Spell]
Monsters you control whose ATK is lower than their original ATK (while not counting the effect of "invigorating Forest") gain 2000 ATK.
You can Tribute 1 monster you control to target 1 "Forest" monster in your GY; Set 1 "Forest" Spell from your Deck or GY, also, either Special Summon or add the target from your GY. A monster Summoned this way cannot be used as a material this turn. Also, you can only use this effect of "Invigorating Forest" once per turn.

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Notes: 

-This is a simple effect. It more than makes up for something like "Burden of the Mighty", "Al-Lumi'raj", "Zombira", "Flash Assailant", "Nuvia the Wicked", "Light and Darkness Dragon", or "Twin Swords of Flashing Light - Trice".
-Doesn't work for Beast King Barbaros, Fusilier Dragon, Karate Man or Megamorph, which just treat the new value as their new "original ATK".

Just a simple boost for raw beaters.. and I have no idea if Slifer manages to kill your stuff or not btw xD
I enjoy doing stuff that looks like it could come out in a simple Starter Deck, but also has some potential to make something with...
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
 

[Darj]

The effect looks more fit for a Cont. Spell/Trap than a Field. Most Fields have stronger effects, or key effects for their Decks. Or rather, most modern Fields because in the early days of YGO they did have only minor buffs, for example Sogen, Forest, etc. I would say Umi too, but that card became more important as cards that depended on, or supported, it were and are released.
The card is lackluster, and you can improve it, but I understand if you want to keep it simple, casual and fit for an starting format. Still, it comes to my mind that it would be stronger and more amusing if it could search or float into something like "Forest" Spell/Traps (although as of now "Forest" Traps don't exist but you know, futureproofing, jts like Nekroz of Clausolas) as a nod to this card invigorating or giving rise to a new forest, or maybe a Spell/Trap that specifically has Plant(-Type)" in its text xD

[Sleepy]

24 minutes ago, Darj said:

The effect looks more fit for a Cont. Spell/Trap than a Field. Most Fields have stronger effects, or key effects for their Decks. Or rather, most modern Fields because in the early days of YGO they did have only minor buffs, for example Sogen, Forest, etc. I would say Umi too, but that card became more important as cards that depended on, or supported, it were and are released.
The card is lackluster, and you can improve it, but I understand if you want to keep it simple, casual and fit for an starting format. Still, it comes to my mind that it would be stronger and more amusing if it could search or float into something like "Forest" Spell/Traps (although as of now "Forest" Traps don't exist but you know, futureproofing, jts like Nekroz of Clausolas) as a nod to this card invigorating or giving rise to a new forest, or maybe a Spell/Trap that specifically has Plant(-Type)" in its text xD

More than going back to Sogen or Mountain, I was thinking along the lines of Wetlands which kinda competes with this card with a smaller boost but that doesn't need another step to be obtained.
... I can totally see Wetlands not being a great standard though, as that card is so old it predates Synchros xD

I'm not against the idea of giving it a second effect, it just has to be only 1 more effect so it stays relatively simple, and preferably one that operates while the card is in play. If it had to float into a different field, it'd have to be Forest (Umi for plants) but I'd rather go the Umi route and design a playstyle around those +200 fields from LOB days. Forest looks very pretty in the Speed Duel print so maybe I can do that in my next thread xD I always thought it unfair that only Umi got the variety it did.

But anyways, back to this card.... hmmmm how about I give it a Dragonic Diagram-like search for "Forest" cards? xD
Mainly thinking on Aplacaribou, but there's Forest, Ancient Forest, Closed Forest, Spiritual Forest, Naturia Forest, "Eco, Mystical Spirit of the Forest", Murmur of the Forest, The Green/Yellow Baboons, all the Level 2 "Mystical Beast of the Forest" monsters, Witch of the Black Forest, and even a Laval monster (Forest Sprite).. Woodan is a Level 3 EARTH Warrior with a bad effect but is the last target from my search. It surely can do something with those traits xD

Eco is a nice anti-burn handtrap, and some of those would get consistency boosts even when talking about other Field Spells.
Maybe not exactly like Diagram but "search or Summon" with a lock against using it as an Extra Deck option that turn if summoned that way or something.... IDK..
 

[Darj]

Support for the Mythical Spirits of the Forest would be nice, yeah!
IDK about cross-supporting other archetypes that could conflict with flavor, like Laval Forest Sprite, but they would welcome the support for sure, anyway. A searcher for Witch of Black Forest sounds sick, too. Personally I would Summon the monsters, and Set the Spell/Traps. Also you would have to make this Cont. so it can be played more consistently along the Forest Fields.

[Sleepy]

1 minute ago, Darj said:

Support for the Mythical Spirits of the Forest would be nice, yeah!
IDK about cross-supporting other archetypes that could conflict with flavor, like Laval Forest Sprite, but they would welcome the support for sure, anyway. A searcher for Witch of Black Forest sounds sick, too. Personally I would Summon the monsters, and Set the Spell/Traps. Also you would have to make this Cont. so it can be played more consistently along the Forest Fields.

But aren't you worried about a potential +6000 ATK to your whole lineup? xD
I do suppose the card would not search itself (although I kinda want it to haha).

Would it be too much if it grabbed both things at the same time? (pop 1 card to Special a monster with 1 turn penalty against becoming a material AND set 1 S/T)?

[Darj]

Well, technically the clause in parenthesis makes it so it is unable to stack, since it takes into consideration all "Invigorating Forests" on the board, so it should be safe from any ATK megaboost.
It would be too much to grab both, IMO. Summoning the monster is already a big boon IMO for play extensions... oh wait, you want the penalty there. I was already thinking in using Witch as material to make her float right away, or Wodan for Isolde plays xD
Hmm... if you want to grab both, then you better make it as a cost and not as destruction by effect like Diagram does, just so it's harder to make pluses from it. Think of cards like Onomatopaira and Pendulum Call. Another approach is a Diagram effect for Forest monsters AND a float into Forest Spell/Traps for that little refund vs. removal, but that starts to sounds convoluted.

[Sleepy]

16 minutes ago, Darj said:

Well, technically the clause in parenthesis makes it so it is unable to stack, since it takes into consideration all "Invigorating Forests" on the board, so it should be safe from any ATK megaboost.
It would be too much to grab both, IMO. Summoning the monster is already a big boon IMO for play extensions... oh wait, you want the penalty there. I was already thinking in using Witch as material to make her float right away, or Wodan for Isolde plays xD
Hmm... if you want to grab both, then you better make it as a cost and not as destruction by effect like Diagram does, just so it's harder to make pluses from it. Think of cards like Onomatopaira and Pendulum Call. Another approach is a Diagram effect for Forest monsters AND a float into Forest Spell/Traps for that little refund vs. removal, but that starts to sounds convoluted.

Actually, the clause in parenthesis does the opposite of that. It counts debuffs rather than boosts and if the monster is weaker than its original stat when not counting this card name's boost, it grants it, so it is possible to be enjoying the +2000 from one and still technically qualify for the other one. 

The clause itself is just so it doesn't loop with itself. Without it, making a monster stronger than its original ATK via the boost will cause it to no longer qualify for the boost, and without the boost it'd qualify again and so on like it happens with Pole Position loops.

I think bringing up a monster to just use as a material goes against flavor and encourages just using the ones that float like Witch, that extend like Valerifawn, or that have convenient Level Attribute Type combinations like Wodan or Arcane Archer of the Forest.... I kinda want other stuff to shine too.

[Darj]

Oh you are right, I misunderstood the effect. I see. Then with the penalty you can get away with the double search.

[Tinkerer]

I dunno.  Maybe it's because I didn't see the previous versions of the card, but a discard for a double search (that's always live) seems pretty powerful... I'd understand if you had to tribute a monster you control so you'd have to actually commit to a play, but this lets you tribute from hand as well, and you can always just Set another "Invigorating Forest" so you can easily splash it as an engine.  If it was limited to grabbing a different "Forest" Spell and you had to tribute a monster you control, I think it'd be more fair.

By the by, you have both a soft-OPT and a hard-OPT in the card effect.

Ruling-wise, this vs. Slifer would probably play out like this:

• If you summon a monster that debuffs itself as a continuous effect (Flash Assailant), this would give the boost first, then Slifer would reduce.  It would not be destroyed.
• If you summon a monster with less than 2000 ATK, Slifer's effect would probably destroy it before this effect kicks in.
• If you summon a monster with more than 2000 ATK, Slifer's effect would activate first and reduce it, then this would bring it back to its original ATK.

 

[Sleepy]

1 hour ago, Redro said:

I dunno.  Maybe it's because I didn't see the previous versions of the card, but a discard for a double search (that's always live) seems pretty powerful... I'd understand if you had to tribute a monster you control so you'd have to actually commit to a play, but this lets you tribute from hand as well, and you can always just Set another "Invigorating Forest" so you can easily splash it as an engine.  If it was limited to grabbing a different "Forest" Spell and you had to tribute a monster you control, I think it'd be more fair.

By the by, you have both a soft-OPT and a hard-OPT in the card effect.

Ruling-wise, this vs. Slifer would probably play out like this:

• If you summon a monster that debuffs itself as a continuous effect (Flash Assailant), this would give the boost first, then Slifer would reduce.  It would not be destroyed.
• If you summon a monster with less than 2000 ATK, Slifer's effect would probably destroy it before this effect kicks in.
• If you summon a monster with more than 2000 ATK, Slifer's effect would activate first and reduce it, then this would bring it back to its original ATK.

 

Oh crap, that's right, I made it with both forms of the OPT clause xD
I'll edit it then to only Tribute from the field. Sounds fair.

On the Slifer bit, since the -2k effect happens first and the destruction is a "then" effect, I can see it, although the weakening and the destruction being part of the same effect instead of eff 1 triggering an eff 2, I imagined nothing would be able to get in-between. Then again, this spell is a continuous effect so maybe that's why.... xD

[Darj]

Oh right, double searchers usually spend themselves for a +0, like the aforementioned Onomatopaira and Pendulum Call, as well as Melody of Awakening Dragon, but this stays on the field so it's at least a +1 at all times. Even if Forest cards are under-supported and not an archetype as of now, it's better to take on futureproofing. I guess the latest changes make it more fair, since having a monster on board requires more commitment.
Another approach is optionally taking either the monster or the Spell/Trap from the GY, so it's a +1 but requires setup, similar to Preparation of Rites.

[Sleepy]

2 hours ago, Darj said:

Oh right, double searchers usually spend themselves for a +0, like the aforementioned Onomatopaira and Pendulum Call, as well as Melody of Awakening Dragon, but this stays on the field so it's at least a +1 at all times. Even if Forest cards are under-supported and not an archetype as of now, it's better to take on futureproofing. I guess the latest changes make it more fair, since having a monster on board requires more commitment.
Another approach is optionally taking either the monster or the Spell/Trap from the GY, so it's a +1 but requires setup, similar to Preparation of Rites.

That's a pretty good idea.
You know, I'm actually a very big sucker for that kind of design where you get some reward but need setup and/or to use it mid-game onward. It's the last few generations of the game that have pretty much demanded searches to survive.

Though I think I'll opt for the monsters to take the hit, as I value more the S/T being retrievable + searchable as it is something more rare.
it'd set the S/T from the Deck or GY, and it'd target the monster in GY to either add or Special Summon. Also, the "don't use it as material this turn" bit is still enabled.

Is that alright? 
I find it funny how the secondary effect that didn't even exist when I made the thread is the main thing being commented on....