Official Religion Thread

[OMGAKITTY]

Some more tl;dr posts. Your speculation was off by a mile and more. But I did see something about proof. Let's try this exercise:

 

Assume I am claiming that I am an invisible man. But I only turn invisible when no one is watching. In fact' date=' not even a camera can be around, otherwise I won't turn invisible. I obviously posess an amazing power. To recap, I can turn invisible when no one else is around.[/b']

 

This is obviously a logical fallacy. It's impossible. Not possible. No. So you tell me that I cannot be turning invisible, as it's impossible.

 

And my retort is that you have no proof. You cannot state that I do not turn invisible, because you have no proof and will never get proof due to the conditions set on my invisibility.

 

Therefore, since you have no proof, that automatically makes me right, correct?

 

No. I am making the claim in this situation. You are questioning my claim, not making your own. Therefore, I hold the burden of proof. And since I do not have proof, nor can I obtain it, it must be concluded that I am not invisible.

 

Mystery Men proved this was possible. You lose!

 

I am obviously trying to turn people atheist' date=' and I have [i']obviously[/i] stated in one form or another that you must change your beliefs. Obviously.

 

They aren't even my beliefs. I'm only arguing because intolerance is wrong, not Atheism. Oh, and read your own f***ing posts? How many times have you said "religion/Christianity is wrong" in this thread, or said "religion/Christianity" and "wrong" together within a 5 word radius? The implications are obvious.

 

Because obviously stating something is wrong multiple times implies that I want people to follow me in my beliefs. Obviously.

 

The only reason for arguing that anything is wrong is to make the audience you're addressing believe you're right. You lose.

 

I am posting that God is wrong because I would like to take part in this debate. I have stated multiple times that I don't care if you become atheist or not. I know for a fact I am right, so it makes no difference to me what you believe. I lost because I did not use obviously in my post. Nope, just won again.

 

I lol'd rather hard because that's how Christians look at things.

While I agree that on a personal scale people shouldn't have their religion effect those that don't want anything to do with them' date=' the democratic system allows people to have their opinions and wherever they get them from shouldn't matter.

[/quote']

 

The democratic system also allows for reasoned debate in an attempt to change opinions. Thus, my saying that religion should not effect others is perfectly valid. ;)

 

Also, the separation of Church and State is in the constitution. The Constitution is what gives our democratic system meaning. It's not quite as simple as a bunch of senators just deciding that gays are evil. They have to first decide that the government should care whether or not gays are evil, and it's no easy matter to make amendments.

 

Separation of Church/State is not explicitly stated anywhere in the constitution.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I am obviously trying to turn people atheist' date=' and I have [i']obviously[/i] stated in one form or another that you must change your beliefs. Obviously.

 

They aren't even my beliefs. I'm only arguing because intolerance is wrong, not Atheism. Oh, and read your own f***ing posts? How many times have you said "religion/Christianity is wrong" in this thread, or said "religion/Christianity" and "wrong" together within a 5 word radius? The implications are obvious.

 

Because obviously stating something is wrong multiple times implies that I want people to follow me in my beliefs. Obviously.

 

The only reason for arguing that anything is wrong is to make the audience you're addressing believe you're right. You lose.

 

I am posting that God is wrong because I would like to take part in this debate. I have stated multiple times that I don't care if you become atheist or not.

 

LOL, wow. You basically just posted "I would like to take part in this Debate and tell Christians their Religion and all others except Atheism is wrong, but I'm not trying to make anyone become an Atheist here".

 

You're intolerant of all other Religions except your own, and you're attempting to make others change their ways by telling them that your Religion is the only feasible one. Then you just entirely contradict yourself so that you can have a way of countering, but really you're just contradicting your entire argument, which is retarded.

 

I've already told you multiple times that I'm not even arguing against Atheism, I'm one myself, but your intolerance of others' beliefs. I can't become an Atheist if I already am one. You just assume that because I find your intolerance towards any other Religions and your avoidance of the obvious cause of wars, not Religion, but intolerance of others' Religions, completely laughable.

 

You've already defeated yourself. You're either telling Christians "your beliefs are wrong, change yours to mine" or telling them "Your beliefs are wrong, but I'm not going to supply any alternative to your beliefs" or in this case, both. Either one of those statements is already moronic, both is even more so.

[Dark]

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.

 

I do not care if you become an atheist or not. In my own personal opinion, italicized for emphasis, I feel that other religions are stupid and illogical. Does that mean I want others to turn atheist? No. That just means I am telling them what is wrong with their religion and moving along. They can do whatever they want from that point on, as it doesn't affect me.

[The Dark One]

While I agree that on a personal scale people shouldn't have their religion effect those that don't want anything to do with them' date=' the democratic system allows people to have their opinions and wherever they get them from shouldn't matter.

[/quote']

 

The democratic system also allows for reasoned debate in an attempt to change opinions. Thus, my saying that religion should not effect others is perfectly valid. ;)

 

Also, the separation of Church and State is in the constitution. The Constitution is what gives our democratic system meaning. It's not quite as simple as a bunch of senators just deciding that gays are evil. They have to first decide that the government should care whether or not gays are evil, and it's no easy matter to make amendments.

 

Separation of Church/State is not explicitly stated anywhere in the constitution.

 

First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

 

Bringing religion into law inherently forms the preliminaries of a government-established religion by favoring one religion over another or over none.

 

Also, Jefferson wrote explicitly in one of his letters about the relevancy of the Amendment to the Separation of Church and State. In Reynolds v. U.S. (1879), the court examined Jefferson's involvement with the amendment and concluded that his interpretation was "almost an authoritative declaration" of its meaning.

 

Sorry, but no cigar. ;)

[Dark]

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

[Metal Lord]

This thread has degenerated into a worthless trollfest and should be closed.

 

One last thing to throw out there though. I'm all for tolerance' date=' certainly. But religious people seem to get all up-in-arms about not being given respect by athiests. Try looking at this from our point of view, just for a second. There's nothing necessarily wrong with religion as a practice (though certainly it does often overstep its bounds). It just that it seems completely ridiculous to us. What if I fervently placed my belief in the fact that I would be taken to the moon tomorrow night by a tribe of winged pigs? You'd laugh at me. This is much the same. You seem utterly and totally ridiculous to an athiest. And that's ok. You can't get everyone to respect you.

[/quote']

 

Well you and dark never seem to give us any respect, and so what if i choose to put my faith in a man who died 2000 years ago for me?

why does this seem like such a problem with you lot? wasn't it you who was trolling a catholic fourm?

Wow, dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

[OMGAKITTY]

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you, amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Wow' date=' dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

[/quote']

 

HEY WHOA DONT BE A BULLY

[The Dark One]

This thread has degenerated into a worthless trollfest and should be closed.

 

One last thing to throw out there though. I'm all for tolerance' date=' certainly. But religious people seem to get all up-in-arms about not being given respect by athiests. Try looking at this from our point of view, just for a second. There's nothing necessarily wrong with religion as a practice (though certainly it does often overstep its bounds). It just that it seems completely ridiculous to us. What if I fervently placed my belief in the fact that I would be taken to the moon tomorrow night by a tribe of winged pigs? You'd laugh at me. This is much the same. You seem utterly and totally ridiculous to an athiest. And that's ok. You can't get everyone to respect you.

[/quote']

 

Well you and dark never seem to give us any respect, and so what if i choose to put my faith in a man who died 2000 years ago for me?

why does this seem like such a problem with you lot? wasn't it you who was trolling a catholic fourm?

Wow, dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

 

That was sort of the point I was trying to get at. You wonder why I have trouble giving you respect, it's because at least to my perspective, your claim is utterly ridiculous. I have no actual issue with religion. I'm great friends with a great many religious people (I'm more than willing to be friends with you. ;) ). I go to a Catholic school, even. It doesn't change the fact that I think religion is a bit ridiculous. So what if you choose to put your faith there? You're absolutely right. So nothing. It doesn't matter one bit. You're not a worse person for it. Just don't expect me to take you seriously in that regard.

 

As to the forum trolling: I was planning on targeting religious extremists within the boards, not religion in general. Regardless, though, it never got off the ground. My account was banned before I made a post, so I think the mod here alerted the admins there. ;)

 

And that last comment was completely and totally unnecessary.

 

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you' date=' amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[/quote']

@Dark: Could you stop with the simplistic equations meant to somehow show that religion is bad. Seriously, they're getting old and add absolutely nothing.

 

@OMG: This is actually an interesting point. But we need to establish a working definition of the word government. Certainly, humans acted in a tribal or pack-like manner far before any indications we have found of early religiosity. This being said, religion did do a great deal in helping to control early populations such as the Sumerians.

 

And as for your second point, I vaguely remember something about people not introduced to Christ spending their time in purgatory until they will finally be judged by God at Armageddon. But I'm really not all that sure.

[Dark]

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you' date=' amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[/quote']

 

Scare tactics are amazing, amirite?

 

OMGAKITTY, you obviously don't know a thing about Christianity. If people don't know Jesus and die, that means they go to hell. So it's obviously logical to believe that 2/3 of the world is ready to go to hell when they die.

 

It's also logical to believe that another religion (Hinduism, for example) is wrong, and believing in their God(s) won't send you to heaven, because their God's don't exist from a Christian point of view.

[The Dark One]

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you' date=' amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[/quote']

 

Scare tactics are amazing, amirite?

 

OMGAKITTY, you obviously don't know a thing about Christianity. If people don't know Jesus and die, that means they go to hell. So it's obviously logical to believe that 2/3 of the world is ready to go to hell when they die.

 

It's also logical to believe that another religion (Hinduism, for example) is wrong, and believing in their God(s) won't send you to heaven, because their God's don't exist from a Christian point of view.

 

Uh... what?

 

Also, it depends on the denomination. Catholics believe that anyone can get to Heaven, it's just easier when you're Christian, or more especialy: Catholic. Calvanists, on the other hand, believed that all humans are inherently evil and so all deserve to and will go to hell unless explicitly saved by God through interaction with their religion.

[OMGAKITTY]

This thread has degenerated into a worthless trollfest and should be closed.

 

One last thing to throw out there though. I'm all for tolerance' date=' certainly. But religious people seem to get all up-in-arms about not being given respect by athiests. Try looking at this from our point of view, just for a second. There's nothing necessarily wrong with religion as a practice (though certainly it does often overstep its bounds). It just that it seems completely ridiculous to us. What if I fervently placed my belief in the fact that I would be taken to the moon tomorrow night by a tribe of winged pigs? You'd laugh at me. This is much the same. You seem utterly and totally ridiculous to an athiest. And that's ok. You can't get everyone to respect you.

[/quote']

 

Well you and dark never seem to give us any respect, and so what if i choose to put my faith in a man who died 2000 years ago for me?

why does this seem like such a problem with you lot? wasn't it you who was trolling a catholic fourm?

Wow, dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

 

That was sort of the point I was trying to get at. You wonder why I have trouble giving you respect, it's because at least to my perspective, your claim is utterly ridiculous. I have no actual issue with religion. I'm great friends with a great many religious people (I'm more than willing to be friends with you. ;) ). I go to a Catholic school, even. It doesn't change the fact that I think religion is a bit ridiculous. So what if you choose to put your faith there? You're absolutely right. So nothing. It doesn't matter one bit. You're not a worse person for it. Just don't expect me to take you seriously in that regard.

 

As to the forum trolling: I was planning on targeting religious extremists within the boards, not religion in general. Regardless, though, it never got off the ground. My account was banned before I made a post, so I think the mod here alerted the admins there. ;)

 

And that last comment was completely and totally unnecessary.

 

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you' date=' amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[/quote']

@Dark: Could you stop with the simplistic equations meant to somehow show that religion is bad. Seriously, they're getting old and add absolutely nothing.

 

@OMG: This is actually an interesting point. But we need to establish a working definition of the word government. Certainly, humans acted in a tribal or pack-like manner far before any indications we have found of early religiosity. This being said, religion did do a great deal in helping to control early populations such as the Sumerians.

 

And as for your second point, I vaguely remember something about people not introduced to Christ spending their time in purgatory until they will finally be judged by God at Armageddon. But I'm really not all that sure.

 

Even back in the nomadic hunter-gathering stages, I would think there was some sort of shaman position that would have held high influence in decision making.

 

But yeah, I'm talking about "civilization" government, ie, Sumeria onward.

[The Dark One]

This thread has degenerated into a worthless trollfest and should be closed.

 

One last thing to throw out there though. I'm all for tolerance' date=' certainly. But religious people seem to get all up-in-arms about not being given respect by athiests. Try looking at this from our point of view, just for a second. There's nothing necessarily wrong with religion as a practice (though certainly it does often overstep its bounds). It just that it seems completely ridiculous to us. What if I fervently placed my belief in the fact that I would be taken to the moon tomorrow night by a tribe of winged pigs? You'd laugh at me. This is much the same. You seem utterly and totally ridiculous to an athiest. And that's ok. You can't get everyone to respect you.

[/quote']

 

Well you and dark never seem to give us any respect, and so what if i choose to put my faith in a man who died 2000 years ago for me?

why does this seem like such a problem with you lot? wasn't it you who was trolling a catholic fourm?

Wow, dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

 

That was sort of the point I was trying to get at. You wonder why I have trouble giving you respect, it's because at least to my perspective, your claim is utterly ridiculous. I have no actual issue with religion. I'm great friends with a great many religious people (I'm more than willing to be friends with you. ;) ). I go to a Catholic school, even. It doesn't change the fact that I think religion is a bit ridiculous. So what if you choose to put your faith there? You're absolutely right. So nothing. It doesn't matter one bit. You're not a worse person for it. Just don't expect me to take you seriously in that regard.

 

As to the forum trolling: I was planning on targeting religious extremists within the boards, not religion in general. Regardless, though, it never got off the ground. My account was banned before I made a post, so I think the mod here alerted the admins there. ;)

 

And that last comment was completely and totally unnecessary.

 

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you' date=' amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[/quote']

@Dark: Could you stop with the simplistic equations meant to somehow show that religion is bad. Seriously, they're getting old and add absolutely nothing.

 

@OMG: This is actually an interesting point. But we need to establish a working definition of the word government. Certainly, humans acted in a tribal or pack-like manner far before any indications we have found of early religiosity. This being said, religion did do a great deal in helping to control early populations such as the Sumerians.

 

And as for your second point, I vaguely remember something about people not introduced to Christ spending their time in purgatory until they will finally be judged by God at Armageddon. But I'm really not all that sure.

 

Even back in the nomadic hunter-gathering stages, I would think there was some sort of shaman position that would have held high influence in decision making.

 

But yeah, I'm talking about "civilization" government, ie, Sumeria onward.

 

While I'm not sure I would agree with you there, the point is moot since neither of us have any information regarding the period.

 

As for "civilized government," religion most certainly made it far easier to group a large number of people into a cohesive unit, but do you think that such a feat would not have soon (or at least eventually) happened in the absence of religion? The way I see it, early people looked to their gods as a symbol of power. They all followed >insert Sumerian god here< because they thought he was protecting them/helping them win battles/etc. Would a similar grouping not have occurred around, for example, a strong military leader? Or a revolutionary thinker that was able to invent new agricultural techniques/weapons/architectural ideas?

 

I guess my point is this: If you look around yourself in today's world, people become followers of countless different things. Some people are obsessed with certain sports, some with money, celebrities, cars... the list goes on. While religion obviously proved to be the best/strongest catalyst, do you think it was the only possible catalyst for such grouping to occur?

[OMGAKITTY]

This thread has degenerated into a worthless trollfest and should be closed.

 

One last thing to throw out there though. I'm all for tolerance' date=' certainly. But religious people seem to get all up-in-arms about not being given respect by athiests. Try looking at this from our point of view, just for a second. There's nothing necessarily wrong with religion as a practice (though certainly it does often overstep its bounds). It just that it seems completely ridiculous to us. What if I fervently placed my belief in the fact that I would be taken to the moon tomorrow night by a tribe of winged pigs? You'd laugh at me. This is much the same. You seem utterly and totally ridiculous to an athiest. And that's ok. You can't get everyone to respect you.

[/quote']

 

Well you and dark never seem to give us any respect, and so what if i choose to put my faith in a man who died 2000 years ago for me?

why does this seem like such a problem with you lot? wasn't it you who was trolling a catholic fourm?

Wow, dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

 

That was sort of the point I was trying to get at. You wonder why I have trouble giving you respect, it's because at least to my perspective, your claim is utterly ridiculous. I have no actual issue with religion. I'm great friends with a great many religious people (I'm more than willing to be friends with you. ;) ). I go to a Catholic school, even. It doesn't change the fact that I think religion is a bit ridiculous. So what if you choose to put your faith there? You're absolutely right. So nothing. It doesn't matter one bit. You're not a worse person for it. Just don't expect me to take you seriously in that regard.

 

As to the forum trolling: I was planning on targeting religious extremists within the boards, not religion in general. Regardless, though, it never got off the ground. My account was banned before I made a post, so I think the mod here alerted the admins there. ;)

 

And that last comment was completely and totally unnecessary.

 

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you' date=' amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[/quote']

@Dark: Could you stop with the simplistic equations meant to somehow show that religion is bad. Seriously, they're getting old and add absolutely nothing.

 

@OMG: This is actually an interesting point. But we need to establish a working definition of the word government. Certainly, humans acted in a tribal or pack-like manner far before any indications we have found of early religiosity. This being said, religion did do a great deal in helping to control early populations such as the Sumerians.

 

And as for your second point, I vaguely remember something about people not introduced to Christ spending their time in purgatory until they will finally be judged by God at Armageddon. But I'm really not all that sure.

 

Even back in the nomadic hunter-gathering stages, I would think there was some sort of shaman position that would have held high influence in decision making.

 

But yeah, I'm talking about "civilization" government, ie, Sumeria onward.

 

While I'm not sure I would agree with you there, the point is moot since neither of us have any information regarding the period.

 

As for "civilized government," religion most certainly made it far easier to group a large number of people into a cohesive unit, but do you think that such a feat would not have soon (or at least eventually) happened in the absence of religion? The way I see it, early people looked to their gods as a symbol of power. They all followed >insert Sumerian god here< because they thought he was protecting them/helping them win battles/etc. Would a similar grouping not have occurred around, for example, a strong military leader? Or a revolutionary thinker that was able to invent new agricultural techniques/weapons/architectural ideas?

 

I guess my point is this: If you look around yourself in today's world, people become followers of countless different things. Some people are obsessed with certain sports, some with money, celebrities, cars... the list goes on. While religion obviously proved to be the best/strongest catalyst, do you think it was the only possible catalyst for such grouping to occur?

 

Older civilizations had a tendency to deify...anything. A strong leader would have ended up becoming a godfigure, eventually. I think it would have been possible for government to form without religion, but it would have been nowhere as smooth or efficient as it was. And until very recent history, government has always been tied with religion.

[The Dark One]

This thread has degenerated into a worthless trollfest and should be closed.

 

One last thing to throw out there though. I'm all for tolerance' date=' certainly. But religious people seem to get all up-in-arms about not being given respect by athiests. Try looking at this from our point of view, just for a second. There's nothing necessarily wrong with religion as a practice (though certainly it does often overstep its bounds). It just that it seems completely ridiculous to us. What if I fervently placed my belief in the fact that I would be taken to the moon tomorrow night by a tribe of winged pigs? You'd laugh at me. This is much the same. You seem utterly and totally ridiculous to an athiest. And that's ok. You can't get everyone to respect you.

[/quote']

 

Well you and dark never seem to give us any respect, and so what if i choose to put my faith in a man who died 2000 years ago for me?

why does this seem like such a problem with you lot? wasn't it you who was trolling a catholic fourm?

Wow, dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

 

That was sort of the point I was trying to get at. You wonder why I have trouble giving you respect, it's because at least to my perspective, your claim is utterly ridiculous. I have no actual issue with religion. I'm great friends with a great many religious people (I'm more than willing to be friends with you. ;) ). I go to a Catholic school, even. It doesn't change the fact that I think religion is a bit ridiculous. So what if you choose to put your faith there? You're absolutely right. So nothing. It doesn't matter one bit. You're not a worse person for it. Just don't expect me to take you seriously in that regard.

 

As to the forum trolling: I was planning on targeting religious extremists within the boards, not religion in general. Regardless, though, it never got off the ground. My account was banned before I made a post, so I think the mod here alerted the admins there. ;)

 

And that last comment was completely and totally unnecessary.

 

Here's a fun formula:

 

Religion + Government = Hell

 

Early governments would never have worked unless the general populace believed it was divinely ordained.

 

 

New Topic:

@all christfags:

 

So basic tenant of Christianity is that you accept Jesus died for you' date=' amirite?

So what about everyone who lived before Jesus was born/died? How do they get into Heaven? What about people who don't know about Jesus, and die?

[/quote']

@Dark: Could you stop with the simplistic equations meant to somehow show that religion is bad. Seriously, they're getting old and add absolutely nothing.

 

@OMG: This is actually an interesting point. But we need to establish a working definition of the word government. Certainly, humans acted in a tribal or pack-like manner far before any indications we have found of early religiosity. This being said, religion did do a great deal in helping to control early populations such as the Sumerians.

 

And as for your second point, I vaguely remember something about people not introduced to Christ spending their time in purgatory until they will finally be judged by God at Armageddon. But I'm really not all that sure.

 

Even back in the nomadic hunter-gathering stages, I would think there was some sort of shaman position that would have held high influence in decision making.

 

But yeah, I'm talking about "civilization" government, ie, Sumeria onward.

 

While I'm not sure I would agree with you there, the point is moot since neither of us have any information regarding the period.

 

As for "civilized government," religion most certainly made it far easier to group a large number of people into a cohesive unit, but do you think that such a feat would not have soon (or at least eventually) happened in the absence of religion? The way I see it, early people looked to their gods as a symbol of power. They all followed >insert Sumerian god here< because they thought he was protecting them/helping them win battles/etc. Would a similar grouping not have occurred around, for example, a strong military leader? Or a revolutionary thinker that was able to invent new agricultural techniques/weapons/architectural ideas?

 

I guess my point is this: If you look around yourself in today's world, people become followers of countless different things. Some people are obsessed with certain sports, some with money, celebrities, cars... the list goes on. While religion obviously proved to be the best/strongest catalyst, do you think it was the only possible catalyst for such grouping to occur?

 

Older civilizations had a tendency to deify...anything. A strong leader would have ended up becoming a godfigure, eventually. I think it would have been possible for government to form without religion, but it would have been nowhere as smooth or efficient as it was. And until very recent history, government has always been tied with religion.

 

I guess you have a point with the efficiency concept: Since primitive technological allowed for very little accountability for one's actions (you could get away with sheet), the unit relies more on trust than it would in today's society. While the basic structure of any organization is trust, deviancy is a trait common enough in humans that a society that wasn't based around the idea of an omniscient being watching your actions might have had trouble standing on its own two feet.

[HORUS]

14 pages in and this thread is still gay as ever.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

14 pages in and this thread is still gay as ever.

 

Has it been hitting on your horrible religion topics?

[Dark]

14 pages in and this thread is still gay as ever.

 

Psst! Make a thread about religion, but don't actually state it's about religion, and don't make it too obvious.

[The Dark One]

Or we could just stop funking talking about religion.

 

nowai! XD

[OMGAKITTY]

Or we could just stop f***ing talking about religion.

 

nowai! XD

 

Then how will HORUS look smart in front of 12 year olds?? D:

[The Dark One]

Or we could just stop f***ing talking about religion.

 

nowai! XD

 

Then how will HORUS look smart in front of 12 year olds?? D:

 

Excellent point. We most certainly can't have that!

[HORUS]

14 pages in and this thread is still gay as ever.

 

Has it been hitting on your horrible religion topics?

 

Ignoring unimportant immature posts.

 

14 pages in and this thread is still gay as ever.

 

Psst! Make a thread about religion' date=' but don't actually state it's about religion, and don't make it too obvious.

[/quote']

 

Sometime.

 

Or we could just stop f***ing talking about religion.

 

nowai! XD

 

Then how will HORUS look smart in front of 12 year olds?? D:

 

Wait, you guys think that's my objective?

[Metal Lord]

Wow' date=' dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

[/quote']

 

HEY WHOA DONT BE A BULLY

 

sorry, but it's like this dude's saying that s/he's giving us respect even though s/he's going onto christian fourms and bashing religion. To me, that's the worst kind of human who preaches but never understands what the words mean.

[OMGAKITTY]

Wow' date=' dude, seriously. you are the pit of humanity, and i pity you. :lol: i lol at you :lol:

[/quote']

 

HEY WHOA DONT BE A BULLY

 

sorry, but it's like this dude's saying that s/he's giving us respect even though s/he's going onto christian fourms and bashing religion. To me, that's the worst kind of human who preaches but never understands what the words mean.

 

lol, you don't understand trolling.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

14 pages in and this thread is still gay as ever.

 

Has it been hitting on your horrible religion topics?

 

Ignoring

Then you should've just ignored the post and not even bothered quoting it if you didn't have a legitimate response.

 

unimportant

Pretentious.

 

immature

Because I'm the one calling stuff gay.

 

posts.

 

1 for 4! :D