Mystical Space hole of killing spells and traps...thingu(DISC:Mystical space typhoon)

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

I find it stange how "One for One" is 2-4-1

 

Same. Also, how did you get 2 in this?

[Expelsword]

Same. Also, how did you get 2 in this?

 

 

How did I get 2?

 

"One for One" (1)

Discard (1)

 

Level 1 Monster (1)

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

How did I get 2?

 

"One for One" (1)

Discard (1)

 

Level 1 Monster (1)

 

Misleading card names ftw.

[Flame Dragon]

Your opponent summons a monster with a powerful effect, yet you have a stronger (ATK-wise) monster on the field. You know for sure your monster won't stay next turn, but you cannot kill your opponent's monster because you have a stronger one and Hammer Shot would destroy yours.

 

This was just an example on how it can backfire, there are more. If you know how to use the card, obviously things like these are more likely to not happen, but it is still can backfire on you. It requires skill, so that's its downside.

Um, how can I not destroy their monster if I have a stronger one? I'll just run over his monster with mine. Problem solved.

 

 

It's a good card, unless its weaker counterparts it has no downside, and it can splashed and abused at 3. Tell what is not unfair about it? That it is 1-4-1, does that automatically make a card fair? Does that matters if you can clear your opponent's fied and not let them play a single monster? I assure you that it is not only annoying, but if you get a bit unlucky it can cost you the game. Lower Tiers (Tier 3 or below) cannot afford so much loses. That gives us an idea of how broken the game already is.

I've been saying what's not unfair. You and your opponent remain on even ground with both of you still having the same number of cards to del wit each others plays. A 1 for 1 can't clear your opponents field alone unless they are playing to conservatively. If you got that by using several 1 for 1s then now you only have 2 cards which won't get you far on a good list. Your last statements makes me think that you think this going to 3 won't be accompanied by many other changes on a good list.

 

Yet again you base all in card advantage. Game goes beyond it. If it was for card advantage alone Waboku would a bad card, yet it was still considered good last time I checked it. If your opponent cannot recover from your mass 1-4-1 and leaves the fied open, you can deal massive damage. When there are so many 1-4-1 cards and some also have no downsides, I think there's something wrong. The game should allow for plays to be played, not to destroy just everything that is played with ease.

No it doesn't. Waboku of an in itself is a -1, yes, but it keeps you from getting -1 which is just as important a +1. If you mass 1 for 1 your opponent you WILL NOT have the resources to do mass damage. For every card they loss you loss too, so if they had 6 cards on the field, and you clear that you'll have none left unless you already created a massive swarm. By mass 1 for 1ing things, yes you're preventing plays, but your also making it that much harder to make them yourself.

[TechnoDoomedOne]

Um, how can I not destroy their monster if I have a stronger one? I'll just run over his monster with mine. Problem solved.

Trap Cards do exist.

 

I've been saying what's not unfair. You and your opponent remain on even ground with both of you still having the same number of cards to del wit each others plays. A 1 for 1 can't clear your opponents field alone unless they are playing to conservatively. If you got that by using several 1 for 1s then now you only have 2 cards which won't get you far on a good list. Your last statements makes me think that you think this going to 3 won't be accompanied by many other changes on a good list.

That's probably the problem, I don't have faith on a good list, because it's either Konami's (which is not that bad, but it is not fair at all) or 3-0 banlists. IMO, a good list would be one where almost all good cards are either at 1, or in rare cases at 2. Forbidden cards should only apply to cards that should have never been printed or are too good.

For me, a good list would kill all Tier 1 and 2 decks, and hit 1 or 2 of the best cards of Tier 3 decks.

 

No it doesn't. Waboku of an in itself is a -1, yes, but it keeps you from getting -1 which is just as important a +1. If you mass 1 for 1 your opponent you WILL NOT have the resources to do mass damage. For every card they loss you loss too, so if they had 6 cards on the field, and you clear that you'll have none left unless you already created a massive swarm. By mass 1 for 1ing things, yes you're preventing plays, but your also making it that much harder to make them yourself.

There you have a point. But then you have Gadgets and such. Where's the problem then, on the crappy monsters that regenerate your hand with other crappy monsters that normally wouldn't be for too much on the field, or the army of 1-4-1s you have to protect them and keep going?

[Flame Dragon]

For some reason I can't reply to your post >_> I'll do it the old fashion way.

 

Trap Cards do exist.

That's fine too. I loss the monster that I was going to loss next turn and now I can Hammer your monster. O, I found another easy solution. I switch my monster to defense mode.

 

That's probably the problem, I don't have faith on a good list, because it's either Konami's (which is not that bad, but it is not fair at all) or 3-0 banlists. IMO, a good list would be one where almost all good cards are either at 1, or in rare cases at 2. It's good? Then you can only play 1. Forbidden cards should only apply to cards that should have never been printed.

For me, a good list would kill all Tier 1 and 2 decks, and hit 1 or 2 of the best cards of Tier 3 decks.

A lot of cards should never have seen print. And how does 1 change things about a card? It's makes broken card appear less, but they still show up and some one shouldn't win because of a lucky pull.

 

Ok, by killing all tier 1 and 2 decks tier 3 and 4 replace them. You will always have decks that are better then other and you shouldn't punish something for being good, only when it becomes bad for the game.

 

There you have a point. But then you have Gadgets and such. Where's the problem then, on the crappy monsters that regenerate your hand with other crappy monsters that normally wouldn't be for too much on the field, or the army of 1-4-1s you have to protect them and keep going?

I can easily set a monster, or just kill your Gadget for every monster of mine you kill. Also you make it should like your opponent is going to keep being able to destroy my cards turn after turn, and unless they got a god hand you won't. After a few turns of 1 for 1ing me you'll be out and I'll be able to really fight back against your army of mini monsters. And since their are more 1 for 1 monster removal cards then spell/trap I can also turn to them to help buy me time.

[Master Marik]

Decent card. Not broken because it's more of a gamble. You're targetting a Spell or Trap (usually face down) that might be able to be activated in response.

[.Gideon.]

Misleading card names ftw.

 

I think "One for one" stands for "discard 1 card, ss a Level 1 monster". See, not a misleading name at all :o

[Wizarus]

The fact that it allows you to target and destroy any Spell/Trap Card you desire at any time you desire justifies its limitation.

[Sleepy]

I bet the same debate people have here about MST, must have taken place in the past for Breaker's sake.

[Flame Dragon]

I bet the same debate people have here about MST, must have taken place in the past for Breaker's sake.

Their is a key difference between the two. MST takes up a card so you and your opponent still remain even. Breaker's effect comes at no cost and even after you use the effect you have a monster that can swing for 1/5 damage.

[Dr. Cakey]

Their is a key difference between the two. MST takes up a card so you and your opponent still remain even. Breaker's effect comes at no cost and even after you use the effect you have a monster that can swing for 1/5 damage.

For the sake of full disclosure, it should be noted that Breaker has its own disadvantages (can be BTH'd, is Spell Speed 1 rather than 2, takes up a Normal Summon). On the whole, Breaker is generically a better card than MST, though less splashable - now that's a strange combination. Well, I think that answers that question. MST can go to 3.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

I bet the same debate people have here about MST, must have taken place in the past for Breaker's sake.

 

Breaker is quite different to MST. It isn't 1-for-1 like MST despite using a Normal Summon and it can swing for 1/5 damage after it destroys something or run over something weak. If one doesn't need to use Breaker's Effect to destroy an S/T, they have a 1900 ATK beatstick that can run over pretty much all Level 4 or Lower monsters and swing for almost 1/4 damage which makes it banworthy.

[Azuh]

Should be at 3.

[Sleepy]

Breaker is quite different to MST. It isn't 1-for-1 like MST despite using a Normal Summon and it can swing for 1/5 damage after it destroys something or run over something weak. If one doesn't need to use Breaker's Effect to destroy an S/T, they have a 1900 ATK beatstick that can run over pretty much all Level 4 or Lower monsters and swing for almost 1/4 damage which makes it banworthy.

 

1/5 ?!

Being able to inflict that amount is not broken, just makes it a decent beatstick. A lot of monsters can run over something weak.

The destruction effect that self-weakens and takes the Normal Summon actually sounds fair to me. There's chainability, which makes the exchange about even. I wouldn't call it broken really, at least in this format.

[Flame Dragon]

1/5 ?!

Being able to inflict that amount is not broken, just makes it a decent beatstick. A lot of monsters can run over something weak.

The destruction effect that self-weakens and takes the Normal Summon actually sounds fair to me. There's chainability, which makes the exchange about even. I wouldn't call it broken really, at least in this format.

That's the key part. Him being broken or not is assuming a good format where loads of cards are banned.

[Sleepy]

That's the key part. Him being broken or not is assuming a good format where loads of cards are banned.

 

Yeah I consciously wrote that part. Do you think it is broken in this format? or MST?

 

Speaking on the "ideal" list or just a "better" list, I could understand. He was actually banned in the past at some point if I recall correctly.

[Flame Dragon]

Yeah I consciously wrote that part. Do you think it is broken in this format? or MST?

 

Speaking on the "ideal" list or just a "better" list, I could understand. He was actually banned in the past at some point if I recall correctly.

A broken card is always broken. Format doesn't matter. However in this format he doesn't do anything. Hell, a lot of broken cards don't do anything.

 

Yes, he was banned banned for a few formats before.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

1/5 ?!

Being able to inflict that amount is not broken, just makes it a decent beatstick. A lot of monsters can run over something weak.

The destruction effect that self-weakens and takes the Normal Summon actually sounds fair to me. There's chainability, which makes the exchange about even. I wouldn't call it broken really, at least in this format.

 

It isn't so much the fact it can inflict 1/5 damage. It is just what else it can do. Summoning him is a +0 as with all Tributeless Normal Summons. Then comes the fact it can destroy a Spell or Trap for no real cost. -300 ATK points. Not much of a cost since then it becomes a +1 that can swing for 1/5 damage afterwards. Or it can not destroy an S/T and either run over a good portion of Level 4 or Lower monsters or swing for almost 1/4 damage. It isn't so much each individual action that makes Breaker banworthy but moreso all of them combined I guess. Also, keep in mind counterability doesn't really balance a card and a format doesn't make a broken card any less broken. The effect is still the same.

[TechnoDoomedOne]

Breaker + Compulsory Evacuation Device = Re-Use Breaker whenever you want

 

2-3 Compulsory + 2-3 Breaker = BROKEN