Because this game is terrible and I want everything that is even remotely good banned

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

On from what I was saying before because apparently there's a quote limit:

 

Oh?

 

Dropping Zanji, GM, Shien, and Shien is totally fair because to do so you need a Six Samurai Deck. Cyber Dragon on the other hand...

 

Yes it is fair. Cyber Dragon on the other hand has been explained numerous times in the past and the stance on it is still the same. The effect hasn't changed since then.

 

What's "bad play"? Just because ATK points don't win these days because it's all FTKs doesn't mean they can't potentially, and for a less-than-sufficient cost.

 

Stop thinking in the current meta.

 

OHWOWLOL. "Bad play" isn't "rewarded", that's what makes it "bad play" in the first place. "Bad play" loses. Dropping Cyber Dragon isn't a bad play at all. If it were, why is it so successful?

 

Cyber Dragon has been explained numerous times and its effect hasn't changed since it was made.

 

Similarly, dropping FHD, all the abominable massive MSE beatsticks, and large Elemental Hero beatsticks isn't technically "bad play" either. Abusing low-cost to high-benefit ratios is GOOD play, but when the costs are too low, the cards in question are overpowered and require banning.

 

You've sort of answered your own point there. FGD I'm rethinking and yes, it is banworthy. Especially now with Future Fusion at 3.

 

Judgment Dragon increases the playability of LS or whatever. Substitoad increases the playability of Frog FTK or whatever.

 

Bad arguments. Both cards in your arguments are banworthy.

 

In most cases they can be legitimately Summoned through alternative methods. Raigeki's banworthy and there's no need to have cards of a certain type punished if they aren't necessarily broken.

 

Yes but that can be said for any card.

 

Cards like Warrior Elimination either lie dormant and unused or are used with great benefit for little cost, a similar effect to Raigeki. No real reason they shouldn't be banned.

 

The problem with type killers is that there are so many of them it is impossible to kill them all. Chimeratech Fortress Dragon is just in a higher class to them all and I've already explained why.

 

"Derp, Chaos Emperor Dragon is trash outside of a deck without light and dark monsters. JD is trash in a deck without Lightsworn.

 

"Drastic Drop Off + Tsuk + Mask of Darkness

 

I am well aware about Chaos Emperor Dragon and Judgment Dragon. The problem with them is that the Deck dedication required with them is not enough to balance them. The deck dedication require of the former is a joke.

 

Tsuk could be a problem then that a simple ban could fix. IDK do I kill Tsukuyomi to save Drastic Drop Off or kill Drastic Drop Off to save Tsuk?

 

Frog Monarchs are still the most viable deck.

 

This list punishes good playing as well.

 

I set monster(like a floater/recruiter) and my opponent drops Soul Exchange Thestalos. I immediately concede as I just lost that match, outside my own soul exchange thestalos play. How is that a good format?

 

Decklist please. I'd really like to see Frog Monarchs would work without Treeborn Frog or Substitoad.

 

Anyway, Soul Exchange and Thestalos are not banworthy though. Also, why the hell would you scoop when you could make a comeback (well that would depend on your hand).

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Because of the stupid quote thing.

 

Yes. With the advent of synchros Mind Control suddenly becomes 1 for 1 removal that makes one of your tuners a synchro.

 

Mind Control is now banned.

 

The problems with BR is timing. He is easiest to summon when your winning, however at that time you won't nuke. When your losing, it becomes a lot harder to summon a synchro, even harder to do anything after you nuke the field.

 

Really? I guess it's not how I saw it when I was constructing this list.

 

you get 1 use of the return, and even that comes at a cost. Grow Up Bulb is a lot like it, only it's level 1 but easier to summon. Also if theirs a problem with this, odds are what ever synchro this is something is more at fault.

 

Fair enough I guess.

 

Trishula comes at the cost of 2 cards meaning your not gaining any advantage when you summon it. And while he is 3 monsters in one, you need 3 monsters to get him out.

 

Seems fair enough.

 

Changes made.

[Sleepy]

Breaker and Lyla are not quite the same. With Breaker' date=' you can Attack after you have destroyed something. With Lyla, after you have destroyed something, it can't attack and it is left vulnerable in Defense position or you have to risk an attack that can blow up in your face if you want to attack with her and destroy something in the same turn unless I'm missing some BKSS ruling on Lyla.

[/quote']

 

Lyla is still a monster that can potentially attack for little less than 1/4 Life and has the ability to become a +1 destroying any Spell or Trap.

Even if its risky to attack, the chance is still there. Also, wouldn't there be combos around that turn this into a Harpie's Feather Duster that will still be able to attack such as Final Attack Orders and All Out Attacks?

 

but more than Lyla, I'm more concerned about the previously ignored part of my comment. You took Judgement Dragon out but all of Lightsworn's concistency is back.

Charge, Wulf, Luminas, Celestias, Necros, Honests, Beconing Light. Just asking for the reason...

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Lyla is still a monster that can potentially attack for little less than 1/4 Life and has the ability to become a +1 destroying any Spell or Trap.

Even if its risky to attack, the chance is still there. Also, wouldn't there be combos around that turn this into a Harpie's Feather Duster that will still be able to attack such as Final Attack Orders and All Out Attacks?

 

All Out Attacks and Final Attack Orders I forgot about but they themselves are banworthy since they faciliate OTKs.

 

but more than Lyla, I'm more concerned about the previously ignored part of my comment. You took Judgement Dragon out but all of Lightsworn's concistency is back.

Charge, Wulf, Luminas, Celestias, Necros, Honests, Beconing Light. Just asking for the reason...

 

I banned Wulf because of its interaction with Foolish Burial and the fact it is just a lucksack beatstick which I guess could also be associated with Foolish Burial. I am aware that LS is still viable even without Judgment Dragon but none of those cards except the aforementioned Wulf are really problems although Honest is rather questionable. Wulf turns Foolish Burial into a less situational Cyber Dragon (Cyber Dragon itself is banworthy) which sorta does break LS a bit. Celestia is just an archetype-specific Monarch except better which is no reason for a banning, Lumina is just a weaker Zombie Master except you aren't limited in what you can discard for its effect and neither of those cards are problems without Card of Safe Return (Zombie Master / Lumina Driver FTK) which is banworthy anyway, Beckoning Light is just a slower mass Monster Reincarnation for LIGHT monsters (in this format, only Honest and Celestia are really viable targets) that can also be used during your opponents turn, Charge of the Light Brigade is just a Reinforcement of the Army for Lightsworns and that isn't a crime and Necro Gardna is trash outside of LS Decks and even in them it is admittedly mediocre. Losing Judgment Dragon is a big hit against them since they no longer have a powerful equaliser that can win the game in 1 turn for you. Additionally, losing Wulf slows Celestia down and gives you 1 less Monster you can revive with Lumina.

[Sleepy]

Wulf wasn't in the banlist when I wrote that... sorry if it looked like I was asking why he was banned.. I wasn't... Dx

 

wouldn't Gyzarus be the same for GBs as what Celestia is for LS? since I see Gyzarus banned I figured.. ... what am I missing D:

 

Concidering Monster Reincarnation and Beckoning Light, even though Beckoning Light only has 2 good targets as you say. I still think Honest gets a little too much abuse here. Potentially, a player will be afraid of attacking a LIGHT monster just because its LIGHT and Honest is pretty easy to search and recycle. In battle, LIGHTs win, regardless of the opponent's ATKs and they are going to stack pretty often.

Not sure about its possible place in the list though...

 

I'm fine with the rest of the explanation.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Wulf wasn't in the banlist when I wrote that... sorry if it looked like I was asking why he was banned.. I wasn't... Dx

 

wouldn't Gyzarus be the same for GBs as what Celestia is for LS? since I see Gyzarus banned I figured.. ... what am I missing D:

 

Concidering Monster Reincarnation and Beckoning Light, even though Beckoning Light only has 2 good targets as you say. I still think Honest gets a little too much abuse here. Potentially, a player will be afraid of attacking a LIGHT monster just because its LIGHT and Honest is pretty easy to search and recycle. In battle, LIGHTs win, regardless of the opponent's ATKs and they are going to stack pretty often.

Not sure about its possible place in the list though...

 

I'm fine with the rest of the explanation.

 

Gyzarus works whenever it is Special Summoned and a Prisma > Bestiari + Test Tiger > Darius makes it way too easy. Not to mention it can be used multiple times easily and it makes Heraklinos way too easy when it really shouldn't be. Heraklinos itself is a balanced card. Celestia however only works when it is Tribute Summoned by Tributing an LS and that seems balanced to me.

 

Honest however is an improved Shrink for LIGHT monsters that can stack. That isn't all though. It isn't a Spell or Trap Card so it can't be dealt with as such and the fact it lets LIGHT monsters always win battles seems like a problem and I think the game can do without it. Shrink isn't like that since it can't stack, it only halves the ATK of the target and that isn't necessarily enough but what kind of player would Shrink something and attempt to run it over and when they aren't able to run it over in battle even if you do Shrink it.

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

Reading Flame's arguement on why Trish shouldn't be banned. :|

 

Wow, have you ever played against someone using Trishula?

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Reading Flame's arguement on why Trish shouldn't be banned. :|

 

Wow, have you ever played against someone using Trishula?

 

A counterargument would be nice.

[Flame Dragon]

Reading Flame's arguement on why Trish shouldn't be banned. :|

 

Wow, have you ever played against someone using Trishula?

I rarely play any one, but I don't need to to figure out what happens when it's summoned. And how could I, it's OCG only.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Yes it is fair. Cyber Dragon on the other hand has been explained numerous times in the past and the stance on it is still the same. The effect hasn't changed since then.

 

I'm not saying Cyber Dragon isn't banworthy, I'm saying that assuming it is, you've got other cards to ban too. If an archetype can't survive without broken cards, it deserves to die until it receives more balanced support, if ever.

 

Just because ATK points don't win these days because it's all FTKs doesn't mean they can't potentially' date=' and for a less-than-sufficient cost.

[/quote']

 

Stop thinking in the current meta.

 

Are you braindead?

 

 

You've sort of answered your own point there.

 

No' date=' no I haven't. If a card initally has a reasonable Summoning condition, and another card's introduced which allows to Summon that card with unreasonable ease, introduced card can just as easily be considered the culprit. Just because rapid beatstick swarming is unreasonable doesn't mean that beatsticks in of theirselves are necessarily the problem.

 

Judgment Dragon increases the playability of LS or whatever. Substitoad increases the playability of Frog FTK or whatever.

Bad arguments. Both cards in your arguments are banworthy.

 

Failure to make a basic bloody inference, that YOUR argument of a card not being banworthy because "it increases the playability of a Decktype" is bloody ludicrous.

 

Yes but that can be said for any card.

 

No it can't, because not all cards punish cards of a certain type which don't need to be punished.

 

The problem with type killers is that there are so many of them it is impossible to kill them all. Chimeratech Fortress Dragon is just in a higher class to them all and I've already explained why.

 

It's faaaaaar from impossible to list every card in the game. It's faaaaaaaar less impossible to list all unreasonable type-killers.

[Catterjune]

You obviously missed the sentence about Raiza/PWWB to get rid of thestalos.

... Why? Do Fissure or Smashing Ground not work? Or is the example you're using solely to make the situation work in your favor? PWWB or Raiza aren't the only things that get rid of a Thestalos on the field.

 

My logic is based on playing in a 3-0 list that is similar to this, in the monarch mirror match.

 

It's really my bad, for understanding how this game works, and how Monarchs are supposed to be run. It really is. :(

You're problem is you're making needlessly complicated plays to try to prove a point, when simpler plays that given similar results exist.

 

I am well aware about Chaos Emperor Dragon and Judgment Dragon. The problem with them is that the Deck dedication required with them is not enough to balance them. The deck dedication require of the former is a joke.

And how much deck dedication does Mind Control need?

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

I'm not saying Cyber Dragon isn't banworthy, I'm saying that assuming it is, you've got other cards to ban too.

 

Like what? What else rewards bad play in a Cyber Dragon-esque manner that gives you a 2100 ATK beatstick like Cyber Dragon.

 

If an archetype can't survive without broken cards, it deserves to die until it receives more balanced support, if ever.

 

I know that but if said card isn't in fact broken, the archetype deserves to keep it.

 

Are you braindead?

 

No. Are you?

 

No, no I haven't. If a card initally has a reasonable Summoning condition, and another card's introduced which allows to Summon that card with unreasonable ease, introduced card can just as easily be considered the culprit. Just because rapid beatstick swarming is unreasonable doesn't mean that beatsticks in of theirselves are necessarily the problem.

 

Then that would come down to which card gives more to the game. In the FGD example, Dragon's Mirror gives more to the game being good support for Dragon-Type Fusion Monsters than a huge beatstick that should not be so easy to summon. In a Dragon heavy Deck, it is an easy task summoning it. Especially with Future Fusion and Dragon's Mirror at 3.

 

Failure to make a basic bloody inference, that YOUR argument of a card not being banworthy because "it increases the playability of a Decktype" is bloody ludicrous.

 

Not when card in question is not banworthy. After testing, REDMD is indeed a problem not just because of its effect which itself is comparable to Gigaplant's but because it is not a Gemini so it can use its Effect right away rather than having to wait a turn and it can be Summoned so easy when it shouldn't be able to be.

 

And how much deck dedication does Mind Control need?

 

None really and that is indeed a problem due to the existence of Synchros turning Mind Control into 1 for 1 removal while leaving you a Synchro monster and probably a big one. Because of that it is banned.